Ephedrine HCI vs. Sulfate Effects - AnabolicMinds.com

Ephedrine HCI vs. Sulfate Effects

  1. jxn
    jxn is offline
    New Member
    jxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    164
    Rep Power
    6486

    Reputation

    Ephedrine HCI vs. Sulfate Effects


    I have been experimenting lately with ephedrine products(both Primatene and Bronk-Aid). I have found that 12.5 mg (half tablet) of Bronk-Aid makes me very jittery and nervous, whereas I can take two Primatene tablets (25mg) and feel none of those side effects. Are the sulfate and HCI variations of ephedrine that different? My understanding is that they are close to being equal in terms of potency.

  2. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,478
    Rep Power
    5966603

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I am the exact opposite. For me, 25mg pure HCl is highly anxiogenic with a very noticeable pressor effect. Ephedrine sulfate has essentially no effect on me. Very interesting.
    •   
       

  3. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,838
    Rep Power
    4334548

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I've heard of ephedrine HCL and ephedrine sulfate. I've never heard of Ephedrine HCI though.
  4. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,478
    Rep Power
    5966603

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    They have different BBB permeabilities though (sulfate is obviously higher), so perceived effects on the CNS may still vary.
  5. jxn
    jxn is offline
    New Member
    jxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    164
    Rep Power
    6486

    Reputation

    I can tell you my body has always responded strangely to stimulants. For some reason, the pure synthetic versions of stimulants have always seemed to be easier to handle. I know I can take 5+mg of Yohimbine with no problems, but Yohimbe bark extract made me feel like my heart was going to explode. It was the same thing when I tried using MaHuang about ten years ago.
  6. Unbreakable
    Board Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,708
    Rep Power
    950991

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by jxn View Post
    I can tell you my body has always responded strangely to stimulants. For some reason, the pure synthetic versions of stimulants have always seemed to be easier to handle. I know I can take 5+mg of Yohimbine with no problems, but Yohimbe bark extract made me feel like my heart was going to explode. It was the same thing when I tried using MaHuang about ten years ago.
    You may like alpha-yohimbine even more
  7. Elite Member
    rochabp's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,195
    Rep Power
    216446

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I am the exact opposite. For me, 25mg pure HCl is highly anxiogenic with a very noticeable pressor effect. Ephedrine sulfate has essentially no effect on me. Very interesting.
    this! i know according to data there shouldnt be a big difference but for me Primatene>bronkaid
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
  8. Banned
    madchemist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    34
    Posts
    212
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They have different BBB permeabilities though (sulfate is obviously higher), so perceived effects on the CNS may still vary.
    In a general sense, both compounds dissociate into their respective ions and so there is no difference in permeabilities.

    In reality, there is, because there is a pharmacokinetic difference between the two salts (beyond the scope of this conversation: the quicker you saturate the blood, the greater capacity for permeability is realized).

    Ephedrine HCl has a "common ion effect" in the gastric lumen which pushes the equilibrium towards the salt (see: LeChatelier). The end effect is a blunting of ionization, which allows greater absorption in the proximal duodenum simply due to kinetics.
  9. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,478
    Rep Power
    5966603

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by madchemist View Post
    In a general sense, both compounds dissociate into their respective ions and so there is no difference in permeabilities.

    In reality, there is, because there is a pharmacokinetic difference between the two salts (beyond the scope of this conversation: the quicker you saturate the blood, the greater capacity for permeability is realized).

    Ephedrine HCl has a "common ion effect" in the gastric lumen which pushes the equilibrium towards the salt (see: LeChatelier). The end effect is a blunting of ionization, which allows greater absorption in the proximal duodenum simply due to kinetics.
    This actually makes a lot of sense from an anecdotal perspective, but would the common ion effect really be that profound from a mere 25mg Ephedrine HCl, especially if dosed on an empty stomach in which stomach HCl is at a minimum?
  10. Banned
    madchemist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    34
    Posts
    212
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    would the common ion effect really be that profound from a mere 25mg Ephedrine HCl, especially if dosed on an empty stomach in which stomach HCl is at a minimum?
    There is never zero acid in the stomach, and so a common ion effect will always take place to some degree. The speed of dissociation will always favor the sulphate salt in the circumstance (a la Kohlrauschs law). I'd surmise that this would indeed have an appreciable effect, and most anecdote seems to substantiate the idea.
  11. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,478
    Rep Power
    5966603

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by madchemist View Post
    There is never zero acid in the stomach, and so a common ion effect will always take place to some degree. The speed of dissociation will always favor the sulphate salt in the circumstance (a la Kohlrauschs law). I'd surmise that this would indeed have an appreciable effect, and most anecdote seems to substantiate the idea.
    Indeed, my personal experiences seem to echo this phenomenon but I was curious if there was perhaps an alternative reason. Thanks for your thoughts.
  12. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15,838
    Rep Power
    4334548

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Congratulations to Mad chemist!. You are today's nerd of the day!

    Attachment 54283
  13. Unbreakable
    Board Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,708
    Rep Power
    950991

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I appreciate the resource of "nerds" as opposed to the brotelligent. It is quite refreshing. It is quite nice to learn something (again) in this community once in a while. Thanks madchemist!
  14. Advanced Member
    HondaV65's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Age
    52
    Posts
    828
    Rep Power
    2266

    Reputation

    Man, the science in this thread is making my head explode - but it's good stuff!

    For me - I prefer Ephedrine HCL and, I also use Yohimbine HCL.

    Ephedra and Yohimbe were so confusing to me because nothing was standardized. With the HCL's - I know exactly what I'm getting and I'm less likely to kill myself with these substances! LOL
  15. Elite Member
    stxnas's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    33
    Posts
    9,977
    Rep Power
    969164

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I've heard of ephedrine HCL and ephedrine sulfate. I've never heard of Ephedrine HCI though.
    That's a lowercase L not a capital I.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
  16. jxn
    jxn is offline
    New Member
    jxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    164
    Rep Power
    6486

    Reputation

    I completely agree. Even though the science is way over my head, it's good to hear from people like madchemist who have a working knowledge of how these substances actually work. I've always believed from personal experience and reading a lot of anecdotal feedback that Ephedrine obviously works, but until recently I had never even heard of different forms like HCl and sulfate.

    So far so good, though. I took 25mg twice today (with about 100mg of caffeine) and with no significant anxiety or excess stimulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    I appreciate the resource of "nerds" as opposed to the brotelligent. It is quite refreshing. It is quite nice to learn something (again) in this community once in a while. Thanks madchemist!
  17. Elite Member
    rochabp's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,195
    Rep Power
    216446

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    man i cant wait to get back in school and get into that chemistry again
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
  18. New Member
    DWeaver's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    253
    Rep Power
    49196

    Reputation

    Ok just got some Bronkaid 25mg of sulfate though it was HCI. Is the Sulfate as good as the HCI and is 3 25mg a day right? Thanks
  19. Elite Member
    criticalbench's Avatar
    Stats
    5'1"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    7,829
    Rep Power
    767474

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by jxn View Post
    I have been experimenting lately with ephedrine products(both Primatene and Bronk-Aid). I have found that 12.5 mg (half tablet) of Bronk-Aid makes me very jittery and nervous, whereas I can take two Primatene tablets (25mg) and feel none of those side effects. Are the sulfate and HCI variations of ephedrine that different? My understanding is that they are close to being equal in terms of potency.
    WAY opposite for me. 50mg bronkaid puts me to sleep calmly. 12.5mg of hcl has my heart pounding with tons of energy.

    Mike
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Ephedrine HCL vrs Ephedrine Sulfate
    By packers6211 in forum Supplement Logs
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-22-2010, 11:37 PM
  2. Ephedrine sulfate or hcl
    By rob88 in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-12-2010, 09:15 PM
  3. Ephedrine Sulfate/HCl experiment
    By dsade in forum Supplements
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 04-12-2010, 05:14 PM
  4. finally, the difference between ephedrine sulfate and HCL
    By soontobbeast in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-11-2009, 09:31 PM
  5. Ephedra Viridis same as Ephedrine HCl/Sulfate?
    By freakabe in forum Supplements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-19-2008, 09:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in