Q for mr.cooper69 on pre-workouts that he knows so well

[3utcher]

I would recommend MAN Clout at 1 scoop [...] and the ever-so-valuable magnesium (which most diets are deficient in).

Just notice that magnesium is clout is mostly oxide.

edit : magnesium orotate is about 7,2% magnesium, so there is 36mg of elemental magnesium coming from the orotate form. 140mg from oxide.

Clout tastes horrible

I actually enjoy the taste of clout.


Also why not taking clout everyday ?

[mr.cooper69]

Just notice that magnesium is clout is mostly oxide.

edit : magnesium orotate is about 7,2% magnesium, so there is 36mg of elemental magnesium coming from the orotate form. 140mg from oxide.


I actually enjoy the taste of clout.


Also why not taking clout everyday ?

Great observation on the oxide; has the formula changed recently? I don't even remember the oxide form being in the product a couple years ago.

Clout is obviously more beneficial if taken daily, but it becomes MUCH less cost effective (14 doses a week vs 4 doses when pre-training only). I'd say the highest benefit:cost ratio is by either dosing clout daily BUT at only 1 scoop a day (and supplementing the rest of the BA) or 1 scoop pre-training only. I feel that some of the ingredients in Clout (ALCAR, NAC, and Orotine in particular) are dosed perfectly fine at 1 scoop daily.

[th3futur3]

Little late on this BUT...yeah...you expected it...Hemavol...LOL. Have been messing with taking it in the mornings and before bed...Talk about being hard all day...

[DCbuilder]

I honestly think you'll be fine with Vengeance. There are safety studies on ArA using 10x the dose found in Vengeance for several months.

I recommend bulk BA with Clout. Clout tastes horrible, as far as bulk BA, I use SNS Caps so I couldn't tell ya.

Thanks. So is there a need to cycle Vengeance due to the ArA or not (since it's a smaller amount)?

I was thinking of trying both products (Vengeance and Clout) but how would you recommend incorporating them? I workout 2 days, rest 1, repeat. I'd love to find a way to use them together, either alternating days or taking clout only on rest days, something like that, as opposed to 1 month of one and 1 month of the other. Any ideas?

[mr.cooper69]

Thanks. So is there a need to cycle Vengeance due to the ArA or not (since it's a smaller amount)?

I was thinking of trying both products (Vengeance and Clout) but how would you recommend incorporating them? I workout 2 days, rest 1, repeat. I'd love to find a way to use them together, either alternating days or taking clout only on rest days, something like that, as opposed to 1 month of one and 1 month of the other. Any ideas?

I would feel free to use Vengeance for 2-3 tubs on end, and then cycle off just to be safe.

Due to the creatine content of Vengeance, there is overlap with Clout. With Vengeance, you want to take it continuously to reap the full benefits of ArA....likewise with Clout and Orotic Acid/ALCAR. For this reason, using one tub before switching to the next really is your best bet. You can try a scoop of each preworkout if you wish, but if you experience bloating frome excess creatine, I'd just finish 1 tub before going to the next.

[DCbuilder]

I would feel free to use Vengeance for 2-3 tubs on end, and then cycle off just to be safe.

Due to the creatine content of Vengeance, there is overlap with Clout. With Vengeance, you want to take it continuously to reap the full benefits of ArA....likewise with Clout and Orotic Acid/ALCAR. For this reason, using one tub before switching to the next really is your best bet. You can try a scoop of each preworkout if you wish, but if you experience bloating frome excess creatine, I'd just finish 1 tub before going to the next.

Heeding your advice but started w/ Clout since I got it in earlier. Question on it:

If taken early AM and wanting added caffeine, instead of just taking 200 mg caffeine, how about a scoop of FocusXT + clout? Looking at the ingredients I didn't see anything that stood out to me as being the same in both formulas other than the ALCAR and Vinpocetine. Can I take a scoop of each pre-workout to get some added caffeine or is there some type of bad interaction (or too much ALCAR/Vinpocetine)?

Also, any idea why the Vengeance is so hard to come by if you like it so much. It's a struggle to find anyone who has it. They're out there, but not as much. I wonder if XF stopped producing it.

[mr.cooper69]

Heeding your advice but started w/ Clout since I got it in earlier. Question on it:

If taken early AM and wanting added caffeine, instead of just taking 200 mg caffeine, how about a scoop of FocusXT + clout? Looking at the ingredients I didn't see anything that stood out to me as being the same in both formulas other than the ALCAR and Vinpocetine. Can I take a scoop of each pre-workout to get some added caffeine or is there some type of bad interaction (or too much ALCAR/Vinpocetine)?

Also, any idea why the Vengeance is so hard to come by if you like it so much. It's a struggle to find anyone who has it. They're out there, but not as much. I wonder if XF stopped producing it.

Nothing wrong with giving this stack a shot. There will be more than ample cholinergics, and some individuals may not respond as favorably as others with all that ALCAR and vinpocetine. The vast majority of users will be fine with this stack, so I suggest giving it a shot; I'd love to hear your thoughts.

XF hasn't stopped producing vengeance as far as I know, but they are first and foremost a protein company and manufacturing an expensive preworkout product likely isn't a top priority.