amino receptors

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  1. All these articles mention taking on an empty stomach to prevent competition.... I want to know more about this.... not looking to pick some sort of retarded online fight with people ... lmao!!

  2. Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar

    It appears that this receptor you are talking about is post first pass through the liver and has absolutely nothing to do with how you take them - empty stomach or not - as they don't compete for absoption in your digestion aside from the fact that BCAA are predigested and are absorbed without having to go through the digestion process that protein powders or whole foods do. The receptor issue is a physiological and nuerological issue and not dependent upon the timing or state of your stomach at the time of consumption but rather what happens with them after first pass liver processing.

    Based on my cursory review of some of that literature it is JMHO
    I have no enemies. My friends intensely despise me.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    It appears that this receptor you are talking about is post first pass through the liver and has absolutely nothing to do with how you take them - empty stomach or not - as they don't compete for absoption in your digestion aside from the fact that BCAA are predigested and are absorbed without having to go through the digestion process that protein powders or whole foods do. The receptor issue is a physiological and nuerological isse and not dependent upon the timing or state of your stomach at the time of consumption but rather what happens with them after first pass liver processing.

    Based on my cursory review of some of that literature it is JMHO
    For argument sake,, why does my glutamine and arginine both say to take on an empty stomach

  4. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    For argument sake,, why does my glutamine and arginine both say to take on an empty stomach
    He is saying the "receptor" issue has to do with the aminos AFTER they enter the body. What you are talking about is competition for entry through the intestinal lining BEFORE the aminos enter the body.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid

    He is saying the "receptor" issue has to do with the aminos AFTER they enter the body. What you are talking about is competition for entry through the intestinal lining BEFORE the aminos enter the body.
    I'm talking about wanting to get the most bang for my buck .... lol... like I said,, if I already knew all about receptors, why would I post a log asking about them? Haha!?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    I'm talking about wanting to get the most bang for my buck .... lol... like I said,, if I already knew all about receptors, why would I post a log asking about them? Haha!?
    I think there may be a semantics issue here. You are talking about competition for transport proteins on the lining of the intestine I think you are calling them receptors, though.

  7. Crystaline free form amino acids do not need to be digested,, so where does that play into the pre and post digestion competition for absorption??

  8. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid

    I think there may be a semantics issue here. You are talking about competition for transport proteins on the lining of the intestine I think you are calling them receptors, though.
    I think you may be right about that,,, like I said early in the thread,, I wasn't sure the term "receptor" was the correct term

  9. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid

    I think there may be a semantics issue here. You are talking about competition for transport proteins on the lining of the intestine I think you are calling them receptors, though.
    With that in mind,,, how important is the necessity to take aminos individually on an empty stomach

  10. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Crystaline free form amino acids do not need to be digested,, so where does that play into the pre and post digestion competition for absorption??
    Some amino acids are charged thus they cannot just diffuse through the intestinal cells to enter the body they have to be transported across. Since there is a limited number of transporters there will be competition if you take them with a whole protein source because the individual amino acids that are being broken apart from the whole protein source will be competing for use of these transporters. The process of "digestion" where you break apart the protein into individual amino acids with stomach acid and then with enzymes secreted from the pancreas or on the intestinal cell lining is a different process that happens before they are absorbed. The competition is not with digestion, since free form AA's are already in their broken down form. The competition is in the use of the transport proteins to get the amino acids in the body.

  11. So the thought is take the free form aminos on an empty stomach to avoid competition from the aminos that will come from the whole protein source.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid
    So the thought is take the free form aminos on an empty stomach to avoid competition from the aminos that will come from the whole protein source.
    What about ff aminos competing with each other,, even when taken on an empty stomach,, that's my main concern and the crux of what I was originally trying to get to
  13. Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Crystaline free form amino acids do not need to be digested,, so where does that play into the pre and post digestion competition for absorption??
    You are over analyzing this. Predigested BCAA are quickly absorbed because they do not need to be digested. They then go through the liver and then the "receptors" come into play. The receptor has nothing to do with digestion or absorption. It is after absorption and processed through the liver that receptors are an issue. This is the same process for protein powdersa and whole for protein except the are slower digested in the digestive tract before they go through the same process in the liver.

    Now greater amounts of various forms or proteins, EAA or BCAA consumed may influence the amount available to pass through the liver increasing what is available for receptors after passing through the liver.
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  14. If you are taking a limited dose of more than one amino there shouldnt be an issue. It is not like you are taking over 30 grams of ff AAs

  15. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    You are over analyzing this. Predigested BCAA are quickly absorbed because they do not need to be digested. They then go through the liver and then the "receptors" come into play. The receptor has nothing to do with digestion or absorption. It is after absorption and processed through the liver that receptors are an issue. This is the same process for protein powdersa and whole for protein except the are slower digested in the digestive tract before they go through the same process in the liver.

    Now greater amounts of various forms or proteins, EAA or BCAA consumed may influence the amount available to pass through the liver increasing what is available for receptors after passing through the liver.
    Ok,, it is my understanding that bcaa's do not act the same way upon ingestion as, let's say, arginine, ornithine or glutamine
  16. Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar

    OK. Why?
    I have no enemies. My friends intensely despise me.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    OK. Why?
    I read bcaa's need insulin for absorption,,, not sure how or why...

  18. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco

    I read bcaa's need insulin for absorption,,, not sure how or why...
    Specifically,, low insulin inhibits ansorption into muscle tissue
  19. Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar

    That is different than (digestive) absorption.

    Insulin (glycogen) shuttles aminos into the muscle after absorption. But there is also a thing called glycogenesis where in the body will convert protein/aminos into glycogen in its absence.
    I have no enemies. My friends intensely despise me.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    That is different than (digestive) absorption.

    Insulin (glycogen) shuttles aminos into the muscle after absorption. But there is also a thing called glycogenesis where in the body will convert protein/aminos into glycogen in its absence.
    LOL... Like I said, I don't post queries about stuff I already know!

  21. Well,, I'll keep taking my aminos individually on an empty stomach,as best I can... wherever it occurs,, there definitely seems to be evidence of competition,, nothing makes me more mad than expensive toilet water

  22. Dude, these receptors you are referring to are not broad-spectrum amino acid receptors for dietary protein that you ingest. They are specific receptors for metabolic processes in the body. I'm sorry, but you can't cite activity at the NMDA receptor and thus psotulate that there are "amino acid receptors." There aren't.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Ok,, it is my understanding that bcaa's do not act the same way upon ingestion as, let's say, arginine, ornithine or glutamine
    That is correct, and has nothing to do with receptors.

    Let me clear up what's happening in the small intestine. After peptide cleavage at a variety of primary levels (pepsin in the stomach, pancreatic release of trypsin/chymotrypsin in the duodenum), we have a bunch of small di and tri peptides. From here, these peptides are further cleaved into individual amino acids at the level of the microvilli by enzymes that we will refer to collectively as "brush-border enzymes" for simplicity. However, di/tri peptides can also enter the enterocyte, at which point enzymes within the cell will reduce them to amino acids. No peptides will enter the bloodstream following intestinal absorption; one way or another, they will be individual amino acids.

    Here's a nice image depicting this:



    And here's a description from one of my textbooks showing how exactly amino acids are absorbed. I had a much better textbook with an image showing means of absorption for each individual EAA, but I'm on break and don't have access to it. You can PM me in a week if you're still interested.



  24. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Dude, these receptors you are referring to are not broad-spectrum amino acid receptors for dietary protein that you ingest. They are specific receptors for metabolic processes in the body. I'm sorry, but you can't cite activity at the NMDA receptor and thus psotulate that there are "amino acid receptors." There aren't.
    I think I was talking about transporters and not receptors,, relax a bit,, I'm not as biochemistry educated as a lot of y'all

  25. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    I think I was talking about transporters and not receptors,, relax a bit,, I'm not as biochemistry educated as a lot of y'all
    Ok. So what about transporters are you concerned about? Transporters on what level (i.e. intestine, capillary, liver, myocyte, etc..)?
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