amino receptors

[grngoloco]

I've always been taught to take aminos seperately on an empty stomach to make the most of the limited number of receptors. It makes sense that you'd want the aminos that cost so much money and serve very specific purposes to not have to compete with generic dietary protein,, or even with other supplemental aminos ..... the thing is I rarely, if ever, hear this mentioned on here .... is this not common knowledge or do people know of research indicating this isn't as important as I've been led to believe?

 

[VaughnTrue]

no such thing as amino receptors.

 

[grngoloco]

no such thing as amino receptors.

Protein receptors are amino receptors ....

 

[grngoloco]

Protein receptors are amino receptors ....

Which is why taking aminos along with protein shakes is a bad idea, from what I understand

 

[mr.cooper69]

No such thing...

 

[VaughnTrue]

Protein receptors are amino receptors ....

No such thing as protein receptors either

 

[grngoloco]

Really??? I remember reading this a long while back,,,, what am I thinking of? I remember reading to take aminos on empty stomach to prevent receptor competition?????

 

[therealest77]

Protein receptors are amino receptors ....

Did u day protein receptors??

 

[therealest77]

Protein receptors are amino receptors ....

Correction; did u say "protein receptors"?

 

[chocolatemilk]

If you want to be technical all receptors and enzymes are polypedptides so they are "protein receptors" and ligand binding occurs between amino acid residues of the ligand and receptor... although I doubt that's what he means lol

 

[grngoloco]

Maybe the term receptor isn't correct,,, but surely there are transports that carry the proteins and/or aminos through the cellular walls... forgive my lack of terminology,, but I believe the concept is the same

 

[grngoloco]

Maybe the term receptor isn't correct,,, but surely there are transports that carry the proteins and/or aminos through the cellular walls... forgive my lack of terminology,, but I believe the concept is the same

Try not to attack my lack of actual biochemistry knowledge,,, but aren't you supposed to take aminos on an empty stomach,,, and if so, why is that!?

 

[grngoloco]

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Amino_acid_receptor

 

[grngoloco]

It is my understanding that bcaa's are the only aminos that need to be taken with food,,, something about needing insulin,,, all other aminos should be taken alone on empty stomachs,,, which goes against the marketing and packaging of most every supp company's "amino complexes"........ if this is true,, I can certainly understand why supp companies and their reps would want to argue this

 

[grngoloco]

Bump for some real conversation regarding the need to take aminos on an empty stomach,,,, for the record,, I totally disagree with those of you that said there are not amino acid receptors,,, there are entire studies and books written about them

 

[3utcher]

there's no need to take them on an empty stomach.
there's no need to take them.

 

[grngoloco]

there's no need to take them on an empty stomach.
there's no need to take them.

Do your research,,, aminos aren't for people that need them,, but for people that want more!!

 

[3utcher]

so you negged me because you still think that taking FF aminos is better than protein ?

lolwtfbbq

 

[grngoloco]

so you negged me because you still think that taking FF aminos is better than protein ?

lolwtfbbq

First of all,, nowhere in this very short thread did I mention anything about aminos being "better"

Second of all I negged you for attempting to disrupt the purpose of my thread by interjecting an "opinion," not based on facts, about something that had nothing to do with the proposed question!!

 

[B5150]

Bump for some real conversation regarding the need to take aminos on an empty stomach,,,, for the record,, I totally disagree with those of you that said there are not amino acid receptors,,, there are entire studies and books written about them

Do your research,,, aminos aren't for people that need them,, but for people that want more!!

Until now all you have done is regurgitate something you think you recall you think you read or someone told you.

Walk the talk - where is your research to back this up with the "entire studies and books written about them?" Right now all you have brought is your opinion as well.

 

[grngoloco]

Until now all you have done is regurgitate something you think you recall you think you read or someone told you.

Walk the talk - where is your research to back this up with the "entire studies and books written about them?" Right now all you have brought is your opinion as well.

I don't know much about amino acid receptors,, which is why I proposed this thread... but I do know they exist ...
http://m.pnas.org/content/90/20/9576.short

 

[grngoloco]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=amino+acid+receptors+e.a.barnard&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=O21aT8KmOsyItween8SFDA&ved=0CBoQgQMwAA

 

[grngoloco]

http://www.getbig.com/articles/protein.htm

 

[grngoloco]

http://www.innvista.com/health/nutrition/amino/intro.htm

 

[grngoloco]

"Amino Acid Receptor Research"
By Benjamin F. Paley

 

[grngoloco]

All these articles mention taking on an empty stomach to prevent competition.... I want to know more about this.... not looking to pick some sort of retarded online fight with people ... lmao!!

 

[B5150]

It appears that this receptor you are talking about is post first pass through the liver and has absolutely nothing to do with how you take them - empty stomach or not - as they don't compete for absoption in your digestion aside from the fact that BCAA are predigested and are absorbed without having to go through the digestion process that protein powders or whole foods do. The receptor issue is a physiological and nuerological issue and not dependent upon the timing or state of your stomach at the time of consumption but rather what happens with them after first pass liver processing.

Based on my cursory review of some of that literature it is JMHO

 

[grngoloco]

It appears that this receptor you are talking about is post first pass through the liver and has absolutely nothing to do with how you take them - empty stomach or not - as they don't compete for absoption in your digestion aside from the fact that BCAA are predigested and are absorbed without having to go through the digestion process that protein powders or whole foods do. The receptor issue is a physiological and nuerological isse and not dependent upon the timing or state of your stomach at the time of consumption but rather what happens with them after first pass liver processing.

Based on my cursory review of some of that literature it is JMHO

For argument sake,, why does my glutamine and arginine both say to take on an empty stomach

 

[bigdavid]

For argument sake,, why does my glutamine and arginine both say to take on an empty stomach

He is saying the "receptor" issue has to do with the aminos AFTER they enter the body. What you are talking about is competition for entry through the intestinal lining BEFORE the aminos enter the body.

 

[grngoloco]

He is saying the "receptor" issue has to do with the aminos AFTER they enter the body. What you are talking about is competition for entry through the intestinal lining BEFORE the aminos enter the body.

I'm talking about wanting to get the most bang for my buck .... lol... like I said,, if I already knew all about receptors, why would I post a log asking about them? Haha!?

 

[bigdavid]

I'm talking about wanting to get the most bang for my buck .... lol... like I said,, if I already knew all about receptors, why would I post a log asking about them? Haha!?

I think there may be a semantics issue here. You are talking about competition for transport proteins on the lining of the intestine I think you are calling them receptors, though.

 

[grngoloco]

Crystaline free form amino acids do not need to be digested,, so where does that play into the pre and post digestion competition for absorption??

 

[grngoloco]

I think there may be a semantics issue here. You are talking about competition for transport proteins on the lining of the intestine I think you are calling them receptors, though.

I think you may be right about that,,, like I said early in the thread,, I wasn't sure the term "receptor" was the correct term

 

[grngoloco]

I think there may be a semantics issue here. You are talking about competition for transport proteins on the lining of the intestine I think you are calling them receptors, though.

With that in mind,,, how important is the necessity to take aminos individually on an empty stomach

 

[bigdavid]

Crystaline free form amino acids do not need to be digested,, so where does that play into the pre and post digestion competition for absorption??

Some amino acids are charged thus they cannot just diffuse through the intestinal cells to enter the body they have to be transported across. Since there is a limited number of transporters there will be competition if you take them with a whole protein source because the individual amino acids that are being broken apart from the whole protein source will be competing for use of these transporters. The process of "digestion" where you break apart the protein into individual amino acids with stomach acid and then with enzymes secreted from the pancreas or on the intestinal cell lining is a different process that happens before they are absorbed. The competition is not with digestion, since free form AA's are already in their broken down form. The competition is in the use of the transport proteins to get the amino acids in the body.

 

[bigdavid]

So the thought is take the free form aminos on an empty stomach to avoid competition from the aminos that will come from the whole protein source.

 

[grngoloco]

So the thought is take the free form aminos on an empty stomach to avoid competition from the aminos that will come from the whole protein source.

What about ff aminos competing with each other,, even when taken on an empty stomach,, that's my main concern and the crux of what I was originally trying to get to

 

[B5150]

Crystaline free form amino acids do not need to be digested,, so where does that play into the pre and post digestion competition for absorption??

You are over analyzing this. Predigested BCAA are quickly absorbed because they do not need to be digested. They then go through the liver and then the "receptors" come into play. The receptor has nothing to do with digestion or absorption. It is after absorption and processed through the liver that receptors are an issue. This is the same process for protein powdersa and whole for protein except the are slower digested in the digestive tract before they go through the same process in the liver.

Now greater amounts of various forms or proteins, EAA or BCAA consumed may influence the amount available to pass through the liver increasing what is available for receptors after passing through the liver.

 

[bigdavid]

If you are taking a limited dose of more than one amino there shouldnt be an issue. It is not like you are taking over 30 grams of ff AAs

 

[grngoloco]

You are over analyzing this. Predigested BCAA are quickly absorbed because they do not need to be digested. They then go through the liver and then the "receptors" come into play. The receptor has nothing to do with digestion or absorption. It is after absorption and processed through the liver that receptors are an issue. This is the same process for protein powdersa and whole for protein except the are slower digested in the digestive tract before they go through the same process in the liver.

Now greater amounts of various forms or proteins, EAA or BCAA consumed may influence the amount available to pass through the liver increasing what is available for receptors after passing through the liver.

Ok,, it is my understanding that bcaa's do not act the same way upon ingestion as, let's say, arginine, ornithine or glutamine

 

[B5150]

OK. Why?

 

[grngoloco]

OK. Why?

I read bcaa's need insulin for absorption,,, not sure how or why...

 

[grngoloco]

I read bcaa's need insulin for absorption,,, not sure how or why...

Specifically,, low insulin inhibits ansorption into muscle tissue

 

[B5150]

That is different than (digestive) absorption.

Insulin (glycogen) shuttles aminos into the muscle after absorption. But there is also a thing called glycogenesis where in the body will convert protein/aminos into glycogen in its absence.

 

[grngoloco]

That is different than (digestive) absorption.

Insulin (glycogen) shuttles aminos into the muscle after absorption. But there is also a thing called glycogenesis where in the body will convert protein/aminos into glycogen in its absence.

LOL... Like I said, I don't post queries about stuff I already know!

 

[grngoloco]

Well,, I'll keep taking my aminos individually on an empty stomach,as best I can... wherever it occurs,, there definitely seems to be evidence of competition,, nothing makes me more mad than expensive toilet water

 

[mr.cooper69]

Dude, these receptors you are referring to are not broad-spectrum amino acid receptors for dietary protein that you ingest. They are specific receptors for metabolic processes in the body. I'm sorry, but you can't cite activity at the NMDA receptor and thus psotulate that there are "amino acid receptors." There aren't.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Ok,, it is my understanding that bcaa's do not act the same way upon ingestion as, let's say, arginine, ornithine or glutamine

That is correct, and has nothing to do with receptors.

Let me clear up what's happening in the small intestine. After peptide cleavage at a variety of primary levels (pepsin in the stomach, pancreatic release of trypsin/chymotrypsin in the duodenum), we have a bunch of small di and tri peptides. From here, these peptides are further cleaved into individual amino acids at the level of the microvilli by enzymes that we will refer to collectively as "brush-border enzymes" for simplicity. However, di/tri peptides can also enter the enterocyte, at which point enzymes within the cell will reduce them to amino acids. No peptides will enter the bloodstream following intestinal absorption; one way or another, they will be individual amino acids.

Here's a nice image depicting this:

And here's a description from one of my textbooks showing how exactly amino acids are absorbed. I had a much better textbook with an image showing means of absorption for each individual EAA, but I'm on break and don't have access to it. You can PM me in a week if you're still interested.

 

[grngoloco]

Dude, these receptors you are referring to are not broad-spectrum amino acid receptors for dietary protein that you ingest. They are specific receptors for metabolic processes in the body. I'm sorry, but you can't cite activity at the NMDA receptor and thus psotulate that there are "amino acid receptors." There aren't.

I think I was talking about transporters and not receptors,, relax a bit,, I'm not as biochemistry educated as a lot of y'all

 

[mr.cooper69]

I think I was talking about transporters and not receptors,, relax a bit,, I'm not as biochemistry educated as a lot of y'all

Ok. So what about transporters are you concerned about? Transporters on what level (i.e. intestine, capillary, liver, myocyte, etc..)?