titanium xl division 1..... need quick info

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    titanium xl division 1..... need quick info


    so...im ready to purchase this from nutra and noticed it recommends 15/20 cals per lb, at 15 cals it puts me at maint or slightly higher....can these be used with erase as a cut? im on a high cal diet with m1db and formx at the moment but want to recomp or cut a few weeks after im done pct..
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    I don't like Testofen because its also pro-estrogenic but if you want to use it I recommend you also take Erasen, and it can be used in a cut
    I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion." -Muhammad Ali
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    I don't like Testofen because its also pro-estrogenic but if you want to use it I recommend you also take Erasen, and it can be used in a cut
    Some people don't like Testofen, but all who do report increased libido and lean muscle, I myself love Fenugreek. I've seen a couple testopro bloods on here before and it didn't show a big increase in estrogen, but there was a decent increase in Total test and Free test. Testofen also shows it's working through insulin/glucose metabolism. If he is running Erase he has nothing to worry about, more people get an increase of estrogen off DAA then they ever have Fenugreek.
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    good info guys.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post
    Some people don't like Testofen, but all who do report increased libido and lean muscle, I myself love Fenugreek. I've seen a couple testopro bloods on here before and it didn't show a big increase in estrogen, but there was a decent increase in Total test and Free test. Testofen also shows it's working through insulin/glucose metabolism. If he is running Erase he has nothing to worry about, more people get an increase of estrogen off DAA then they ever have Fenugreek.
    Could you post me some links? I have never seen any bloodwork done on Testofen. I'm also aware that DAA CAN increase estrogen.

    As of June 2011, a thorough review of available literature reveals no studies that support the use of fenugreek in raising testosterone levels. A study showing no effect on testosterone levels, however, is readily apparent. In a 2009 study published in "Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise," fenugreek supplementation was conclusively shown to have no effect on the hormonal profile of the test subjects. In a study on male and female rabbits published in "Contraception" in 2006, fenugreek not only lowered circulating androgens, including testosterone, it decreased fertility in both genders.

    Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/469985-does-fenugreek-increase-testosterone-levels/#ixzz1my6y5SqP


    And heres a quote from the Dr.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Next, you move on to Fenugreek (Testofen)...and this ingredient SUCKS!!! I know - not very scientific of me; but it's the truth. This goddamned thing is HIGHLY estrogenic and you couldn't get me within a 10-foot pole of it in any products I design. Testofen is in quite a few products on the market; of which...it draws upon some data. It is just an extract from Fenugreek however standardized to contain about 50% fenusides. This is important because you NEED a down-regulation of the number of the following saponins: diosgenin, yamogenin, gitogenin, tigogenin, and neotigogens; which are all previously purported to be sources of fenugreek's estrogenic properties (makes sense seeing they are phytoestrogens, but remember to take phytoestrogens and divide by the number 5 to get contribution to total estrogen cotent). The "positive" studies are essentially from 1 group of researchers (i.e. - non-replicated).
    It also seems like only positive studies are done by the patent holder of Testofen
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    in athletix defense, would erase take care of the estrogen increase....this would help clear alot of questions i get at work as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    in athletix defense, would erase take care of the estrogen increase....this would help clear alot of questions i get at work as well
    I'm not attacking Athletix here in any way, its a great company and they have great products, I just don't like Testofen

    Erase is a very strong AI and I believe its more than enough
    I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion." -Muhammad Ali
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    I'm not attacking Athletix here in any way, its a great company and they have great products, I just don't like Testofen

    Erase is a very strong AI and I believe its more than enough
    good deal, yeah wrong choice of words "in athletix defense"....i love the honest feedback guys, much appreciated!
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    ThebigT got bloods after his testopro run showing an increase in test and free test. Also found a couple other members posted before and after bloods but thats not on this forum, don't think i can link it without breaking the rules.

    There is a study showing it increases test, but it's from the makers so not a lot of people will count that as proof, it is proven to increase libido and 90% the Fenugreek logs out have shown good results. We added I3C in TitaniumXL to help block any estrogen increase. Im not saying Fenugreek isn't pro-estrogenic, DHEA has a bigger estrogen boost yet people get some nice muscle building results, I say to each their own lol.

    Fenugreek isn't for everyone, I say stick with what works for ya
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    Dafts 12 week AI Testopro log(sponsored)

    this guy got bloodwork

    another AI rep got bloodwork on our daa and testopro and test went up
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post
    ThebigT got bloods after his testopro run showing an increase in test and free test. Also found a couple other members posted before and after bloods but thats not on this forum, don't think i can link it without breaking the rules.

    There is a study showing it increases test, but it's from the makers so not a lot of people will count that as proof, it is proven to increase libido and 90% the Fenugreek logs out have shown good results. We added I3C in TitaniumXL to help block any estrogen increase. Im not saying Fenugreek isn't pro-estrogenic, DHEA has a bigger estrogen boost yet people get some nice muscle building results, I say to each their own lol.

    Fenugreek isn't for everyone, I say stick with what works for ya
    Could you link me to the study?

    To be fair DHEA also raises testosterone more and on a longer run PCT is recommended

    I agree with you that to each with their own, if it works for you why not use it, who knows maybe someday I will tryout some Testofen

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    Dafts 12 week AI Testopro log(sponsored)

    this guy got bloodwork

    another AI rep got bloodwork on our daa and testopro and test went up
    From his post we can only say that his test went up, I would like to see what happened to his estrogen. He was also using Anabeta and LCLT so we can't really say for sure the test boost was from TestoPro.

    And the AI rep was using DAA...
    I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion." -Muhammad Ali
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    Could you link me to the study?

    To be fair DHEA also raises testosterone more and on a longer run PCT is recommended

    I agree with you that to each with their own, if it works for you why not use it, who knows maybe someday I will tryout some Testofen



    From his post we can only say that his test went up, I would like to see what happened to his estrogen. He was also using Anabeta and LCLT so we can't really say for sure the test boost was from TestoPro.

    And the AI rep was using DAA...
    http://www.boditronics.co.uk/TESTOFENHumanStudy2.pdf

    Do you think Fenugreek increases estrogen more then DHEA? not even close and there is one study on dhea that shows a 300% increase in estrogen lol. Everything that boosts test will end up boosting estrogen some what.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post
    http://www.boditronics.co.uk/TESTOFENHumanStudy2.pdf

    Do you think Fenugreek increases estrogen more then DHEA? not even close and there is one study on dhea that shows a 300% increase in estrogen lol. Everything that boosts test will end up boosting estrogen some what.
    Why are you putting words in my mouth, I never said that?? In the study there was an increase in free testosterone yes, but estrogen wasn't even mentioned in the study. I believe there are better ways to to increase free testosterone like 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. I don't think Dr. Houser would joke that Testofen is HIGHLY estrogenic.
    I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion." -Muhammad Ali
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    Why are you putting words in my mouth, I never said that?? In the study there was an increase in free testosterone yes, but estrogen wasn't even mentioned in the study. I believe there are better ways to to increase free testosterone like 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. I don't think Dr. Houser would joke that Testofen is HIGHLY estrogenic.
    ? I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just asked you do you think Fenugreek increases estrogen more then DHEA, thats why I put a question mark at the end of it.

    I agree 3,4 Divanil is better for increasing free test, there is an argument for both sides, I havn't seen any before and after tests showing a huge increase in estrogen after the use of fenugreek.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post
    ? I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just asked you do you think Fenugreek increases estrogen more then DHEA, thats why I put a question mark at the end of it.

    I agree 3,4 Divanil is better for increasing free test, there is an argument for both sides, I havn't seen any before and after tests showing a huge increase in estrogen after the use of fenugreek.
    Ok, sorry if I got that wrong but it just sounded like an rhetorical question to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    good deal, yeah wrong choice of words "in athletix defense"....i love the honest feedback guys, much appreciated!
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    yep, i just picked up formula x btw.....all i need now is licogenix....ummmmmhmmmm
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