[JudoJosh]

In my opinion, the ratio is what matters most. Thats why Heart Help shines because it simultaneously raises HDL while lowering LDL, thus making the ratio better and better.

No, the type of LDL is what matters and inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme will not lower the right type. Yes it lowers total cholesterol but recent research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...1/?tool=pubmed) has shown the use of statins (which work by inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme) does not lower small dense LDL, which is the one that is linked to inflammation (which is what raises CVD risk, not cholesterol). So while a statin will lower total cholesterol and will result in drops of LDL and even sdLDL it also changes the ratio of sdLDL and the larger LDLs, which is not good.

Again, inhibiting the natural production of cholesterol in our body is not a good thing, especially when our bodies have an natural self-regulating system. What happens when the body tries to produce the necessary amount of cholesterol? What happens when adequate levels of cholesterol are not available for hormone production? Or what happens to the parts of our body that needs cholesterol?

Cholesterol is not a bad thing.
Inflammation is.
Statins do not effectively decrease sdLDL which is the one that oxidizes and causes the inflammation which is what results in higher CVD risk.

If your goal is to lower your CVD risk then your goal should be to reduce inflamation

[itzDodge]

Good stuff. Smells rank enough to clear out a room though.

Not always a bad thing, bust those out at 4 am when bitches need to get out of your house

Partys over pills

[DGA3]

No, the type of LDL is what matters and inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme will not lower the right type. Yes it lowers total cholesterol but recent research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...1/?tool=pubmed) has shown the use of statins (which work by inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme) does not lower small dense LDL, which is the one that is linked to inflammation (which is what raises CVD risk, not cholesterol). So while a statin will lower total cholesterol and will result in drops of LDL and even sdLDL it also changes the ratio of sdLDL and the larger LDLs, which is not good.

Again, inhibiting the natural production of cholesterol in our body is not a good thing, especially when our bodies have an natural self-regulating system. What happens when the body tries to produce the necessary amount of cholesterol? What happens when adequate levels of cholesterol are not available for hormone production? Or what happens to the parts of our body that needs cholesterol?

Cholesterol is not a bad thing.
Inflammation is.
Statins do not effectively decrease sdLDL which is the one that oxidizes and causes the inflammation which is what results in higher CVD risk.

If your goal is to lower your CVD risk then your goal should be to reduce inflamation

So for someone like me, what is an effective remedy?

Or, with my high levels of "good" cholesterol and low triglycerides, am I ok?

Suggestions?

[heebs10]

No, the type of LDL is what matters and inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme will not lower the right type. Yes it lowers total cholesterol but recent research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...1/?tool=pubmed) has shown the use of statins (which work by inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme) does not lower small dense LDL, which is the one that is linked to inflammation (which is what raises CVD risk, not cholesterol). So while a statin will lower total cholesterol and will result in drops of LDL and even sdLDL it also changes the ratio of sdLDL and the larger LDLs, which is not good.


Again, inhibiting the natural production of cholesterol in our body is not a good thing, especially when our bodies have an natural self-regulating system. What happens when the body tries to produce the necessary amount of cholesterol? What happens when adequate levels of cholesterol are not available for hormone production? Or what happens to the parts of our body that needs cholesterol?

Cholesterol is not a bad thing.
Inflammation is.
Statins do not effectively decrease sdLDL which is the one that oxidizes and causes the inflammation which is what results in higher CVD risk.

If your goal is to lower your CVD risk then your goal should be to reduce inflamation

statins are effective in reducing inflammation. many many studies have shown significant reduction of CRP levels with statin use.

[charley]

I'm trying the 'anabolic diet' ....it's supposed to cut fat and lower cholesterol....raise hdl's and lower ldl's ....it's a high fat..red meat diet...
....I'm in day 3...but hope this will work......if it works I keep my test levels and my muscle mass.............

.........charley

[schwellington]

My total cholesterol is 386 LDL 298 Hdl 11 my doc was like o fock (I was and had been on epi for 8weeks) didn't tell him of course he gave me zocor now of this could do the same thing I would love it only thing is I'm in college an I have no room in budget :/

[WARBIRDWS6]

I'm trying the 'anabolic diet' ....it's supposed to cut fat and lower cholesterol....raise hdl's and lower ldl's ....it's a high fat..red meat diet...
....I'm in day 3...but hope this will work......if it works I keep my test levels and my muscle mass.............

.........charley

thats the diet where you eat only protein and fats all week but can add carbs on the weekends right? I still have that book around here somewhere....kind of like atkins but more geared for the bodybuilder.....

[AaronJP1]

thats the diet where you eat only protein and fats all week but can add carbs on the weekends right? I still have that book around here somewhere....kind of like atkins but more geared for the bodybuilder.....

50 different diets out there that all do the same thing... smh

[WARBIRDWS6]

50 different diets out there that all do the same thing... smh

yep exactly.....all those types of diets recommend less than 30 grams of carbs M-F and only protein/fat basically.....then you can eat carbs as advised on the weekends, maybe all you can eat carbs or a prescribed amount each day. same shyt different author/diet name.

[WARBIRDWS6]

.....matter of fact, now that I think of it....I'm gonna "create" a high fat/high protein weekday diet with carbs on the weekend and market it...just gotta come up with a catchy name.....

[criticalbench]

How is this relevant?



Again, do you have any evidence that shows cholesterol to be a causative factor for CVD?

Also let me be clear, this is in no way a criticism of your company's product but at the idea that people need to lower their cholesterol in order to be healthy.

With the term cvd, are you referring to cardiovascular disease? If so, are you referring to the new medical literature stating that high cholesterol does not increase your risk for heart disease? If so, I use to work on a cardiac floor in a very large, magnet hospital and attended one of the grand round conferences lead by some of the top cardiologists on the east coast and they were discussing this. They stated many reasons why elevated cholesterol above the normal range is bad and should be lowered, but also were providing evidence that high cholesterol above the norm didn't increase the risk of cvd. I didn't really pay attention all to well though, it was right after one of my contest preps ended, so I just went for the free food and because I got paid to sit there haha.. looking back now, I should have taken notes!

Regardless, elevated ldl or decreased hdl outside of the recommended range is never a good thing, and should be managed via diet and exercise first, then supplements, than pharmacologically.

Mike

[charley]

Warbirds.............

Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:

• Fat Loss. You force your body to use fat for energy by avoiding carbs for 5 days. Your body stores less fat because you eat lots of fats. You'll get rid of stubborn fat like love handles. 10% body fat year through is easy.
• Muscle Gains. Key to the Anabolic Diet is fatty read meat. This is rich in cholesterol and saturated fats which increase your testosterone levels. Testosterone is the muscle building hormone.
• Improved Health. Lower cholesterol & tryglyceride levels, less plaque build up, controlled insulin levels, less food allergies, less acne, ... Do a blood test before starting the Anabolic Diet and compare months later.
• More Energy. Controlling your carb intake will make you wake up full of energy. You'll never have blood sugar crashes or heaviness after eating again. Also less irritability & less mood swings.
• No Hunger. Fat satiates and makes you feel full longer. You'll never feel hungry on the Anabolic Diet. You'll have to remind yourself to eat even though you'll be eating more than before.

How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with strength training. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:

• Weekdays. Proteins, fats & veggies. Eat fatty red meat, fatty fish, whole eggs, full fat cheese, olive oil, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, ...
• Weekends. Eat lots of carbs. Pasta, rice, bread, potatoes, oats, fruit, ... Lower your protein & fat intake.

Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:

• Fat Loss. You force your body to use fat for energy by avoiding carbs for 5 days. Your body stores less fat because you eat lots of fats. You'll get rid of stubborn fat like love handles. 10% body fat year through is easy.
• Muscle Gains. Key to the Anabolic Diet is fatty read meat. This is rich in cholesterol and saturated fats which increase your testosterone levels. Testosterone is the muscle building hormone.
• Improved Health. Lower cholesterol & tryglyceride levels, less plaque build up, controlled insulin levels, less food allergies, less acne, ... Do a blood test before starting the Anabolic Diet and compare months later.
• More Energy. Controlling your carb intake will make you wake up full of energy. You'll never have blood sugar crashes or heaviness after eating again. Also less irritability & less mood swings.
• No Hunger. Fat satiates and makes you feel full longer. You'll never feel hungry on the Anabolic Diet. You'll have to remind yourself to eat even though you'll be eating more than before.

How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with strength training. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:

• Weekdays. Proteins, fats & veggies. Eat fatty red meat, fatty fish, whole eggs, full fat cheese, olive oil, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, ...
• Weekends. Eat lots of carbs. Pasta, rice, bread, potatoes, oats, fruit, ... Lower your protein & fat intake.

Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:

• Fat Loss. You force your body to use fat for energy by avoiding carbs for 5 days. Your body stores less fat because you eat lots of fats. You'll get rid of stubborn fat like love handles. 10% body fat year through is easy.
• Muscle Gains. Key to the Anabolic Diet is fatty read meat. This is rich in cholesterol and saturated fats which increase your testosterone levels. Testosterone is the muscle building hormone.
• Improved Health. Lower cholesterol & tryglyceride levels, less plaque build up, controlled insulin levels, less food allergies, less acne, ... Do a blood test before starting the Anabolic Diet and compare months later.
• More Energy. Controlling your carb intake will make you wake up full of energy. You'll never have blood sugar crashes or heaviness after eating again. Also less irritability & less mood swings.
• No Hunger. Fat satiates and makes you feel full longer. You'll never feel hungry on the Anabolic Diet. You'll have to remind yourself to eat even though you'll be eating more than before.

How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with strength training. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:

• Weekdays. Proteins, fats & veggies. Eat fatty red meat, fatty fish, whole eggs, full fat cheese, olive oil, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, ...
• Weekends. Eat lots of carbs. Pasta, rice, bread, potatoes, oats, fruit, ... Lower your protein & fat intake.

[AaronJP1]

.....matter of fact, now that I think of it....I'm gonna "create" a high fat/high protein weekday diet with carbs on the weekend and market it...just gotta come up with a catchy name.....

lmao. Call it the Warriors Eat Like A Bird Diet!

[WARBIRDWS6]

Yep that is the diet I was talking about charley......I have the book, its a smaller book.....might not call it a real book, but I used that diet many times. It works well for fat loss thats for certain, just that I always felt flat during the week with no carbs. I can run on fats no problem, but my muscles just looked flat. If fat loss is your primary goal and your not that into the cosmetic appearance stuff....Its a good diet. Lots of protein as well for muscle building in addition to the fat burning. I can eat me some eggs and sausage and bacon and meats thats for sure...........

[WARBIRDWS6]

Two other diet books I have here that are almost exactly like the anabolic diet are "Bodyopus" by Dan duchaine and of course the Atkins diet. The duchaine diet is REALLY strict on the weekend recomp with carbs....its not as fun as the other diets where you eat any and all carbs....you need to eat specific foods or specific carb shakes etc on the weekend. In his bodyopus book he has that atkins like diet along with an isocaloric option as well as a more conventional diet. its 3 different diets in one book

[AaronJP1]

I was trying the zone 40/30/30 and the macrobolic which is 45/35/20...
Think they both work, just requires good food choices and dedication. Cutting cals and low carb will sure lean ya out.... Sux carbs are so bad. Wish carbs were protein... wait what?

[broons]

Pantethine, niacin, taurine, fish oil to name a few things I have taken and successfully kept things in check

[JudoJosh]

So for someone like me, what is an effective remedy?Or, with my high levels of "good" cholesterol and low triglycerides, am I ok?Suggestions?

High LDL results arent necessarily a bad thing. When you get blood work done your LDL is usually estimated and not an actual measurement. Ask your doctor for a VAP test for a lipoprotein analysis and see what type of LDL is making up your LDL count. Typically people with high HDL combined with low trig usually also have more of the larger LDL and less of the smaller dense LDL. If your VAP test confirms this then your high LDL will not be a concern for you. However, if your results do come back showing sdLDL dominates your LDL count than I would suggest intermittent fasting. Recent research (Improvements in LDL particle size and distribution... [Br J Nutr. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI) has shown IF results in an improvement of LDL health. Also lower overall carb intake and eliminate trans fat and refined, processed foods as these all contribute towards inflammation

[criticalbench]

High LDL results arent necessarily a bad thing.

When you get blood work done your LDL is usually estimated and an actual measurement. Ask your doctor for a VAP test for a lipoprotein analysis and see what type of LDL is making up your LDL count. Typically people with high HDL combined with low trig usually also have more of the larger LDL and less of the smaller dense LDL. If your VAP test confirms this then your high LDL will not be a concern for you.

However, if your results do come back showing sdLDL dominates your LDL count than I would suggest intermittent fasting. Recent research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20880415) has shown IF results in an improvement of LDL health. Also lower overall carb intake and eliminate trans fat and refined, processed foods as these all contribute towards inflammation

Good info on a VAP test; a much better indicator.

[JudoJosh]

statins are effective in reducing inflammation. many many studies have shown significant reduction of CRP levels with statin use.

Yes, C-reactive protein and homocysteine are inflammatory processes. Cholesterol is the response to these processes. First, not all inflammation isnt necessarily a bad thing either. It is our bodies natural defense system. CRP will go up to anything that causes inflammation. It is our bodies response to stress, injury, illness, pain etc. The inflammation that raises your CVD risk is chronic systemic inflammation. Think it is important to differentiate between the two. CRP only tells us that inflammation is occurring, it does not tell us why and taking a drug that can reduce the livers production of CRP does not help us much really as the root cause of the problem has not been addressed.

Now on statins and CRP, I assume you are referring to the jupiter study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18997196/) ? There are a couple issues with the creditability to the study, one being it was funded by the owners of crestor (a popular statin) and two it was carried out by the man who holds that patent on the CRP test. To add to this, the group of people chosen for the trial were either above 50 years old (for men) and above 60 years old (for women) and had normal LDL and elevated CRP (which is pretty unusual). This study says nothing about those who are under those ages. Furthermore, even taking the above out of the equation, the total reduction for CVD risk was only around 0.9%! Overall what this really does show us is that giving statins to people with elevated CRP really doesnt do much to improve their health. Dr. Eades does a pretty good job breaking down the study here - http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/c...-disease/1853/.

Lastly, this idea that people with normal cholesterol levels should all go on statins is ridiculous and their "evidence" supports the ridiculousness of it. Overall, if people have a constant elevated CRP without the presence of illness, they should try to find out what exactly is causing their inflammation and NOT try to cover it up with a statin. A proper diet, consistent exercise, stress reduction and smart supplementation (such as fish oil) should be ones focus, NOT going on a statin. Taking a statin will not solve anything and only open doors up to new problems (yes statins come with a host of problems themselves) so why do it?

I'm trying the 'anabolic diet' ....it's supposed to cut fat and lower cholesterol....raise hdl's and lower ldl's ....it's a high fat..red meat diet...
....I'm in day 3...but hope this will work......if it works I keep my test levels and my muscle mass.............

.........charley

Any diet that cuts your carb intake will do this

[flightposite]

Yes, C-reactive protein and homocysteine are inflammatory processes. Cholesterol is the response to these processes. First, not all inflammation isnt necessarily a bad thing either. It is our bodies natural defense system. CRP will go up to anything that causes inflammation. It is our bodies response to stress, injury, illness, pain etc. The inflammation that raises your CVD risk is chronic systemic inflammation. Think it is important to differentiate between the two. CRP only tells us that inflammation is occurring, it does not tell us why and taking a drug that can reduce the livers production of CRP does not help us much really as the root cause of the problem has not been addressed.

Now on statins and CRP, I assume you are referring to the jupiter study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18997196/) ? There are a couple issues with the creditability to the study, one being it was funded by the owners of crestor (a popular statin) and two it was carried out by the man who holds that patent on the CRP test. To add to this, the group of people chosen for the trial were either above 50 years old (for men) and above 60 years old (for women) and had normal LDL and elevated CRP (which is pretty unusual). This study says nothing about those who are under those ages. Furthermore, even taking the above out of the equation, the total reduction for CVD risk was only around 0.9%! Overall what this really does show us is that giving statins to people with elevated CRP really doesnt do much to improve their health. Dr. Eades does a pretty good job breaking down the study here - http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/c...-disease/1853/.

Lastly, this idea that people with normal cholesterol levels should all go on statins is ridiculous and their "evidence" supports the ridiculousness of it. Overall, if people have a constant elevated CRP without the presence of illness, they should try to find out what exactly is causing their inflammation and NOT try to cover it up with a statin. A proper diet, consistent exercise, stress reduction and smart supplementation (such as fish oil) should be ones focus, NOT going on a statin. Taking a statin will not solve anything and only open doors up to new problems (yes statins come with a host of problems themselves) so why do it?

Any diet that cuts your carb intake will do this

Josh is on point with this 100% agreement. I'm sure this new iforce product is great though and will benefit many who take steroids or any prohormone cycle. I might pick some up. Also would be a better alternative to statins IMO.

[JudoJosh]

My total cholesterol is 386 LDL 298 Hdl 11 my doc was like o fock (I was and had been on epi for 8weeks) didn't tell him of course he gave me zocor now of this could do the same thing I would love it only thing is I'm in college an I have no room in budget :/

Reduced HDL is a common side effect of androgen use and having low HDL while taking a androgen does not necessarily mean you are at a greater risk as research has shown us the protective activity (HTGL) of HDL is still present even though the number of HDL particles has decreased.

yep exactly.....all those types of diets recommend less than 30 grams of carbs M-F and only protein/fat basically.....then you can eat carbs as advised on the weekends, maybe all you can eat carbs or a prescribed amount each day. same shyt different author/diet name.

.....matter of fact, now that I think of it....I'm gonna "create" a high fat/high protein weekday diet with carbs on the weekend and market it...just gotta come up with a catchy name.....

No there are differences

Atkins, mcdonalds keto diet, dan duchanies body opus, dipasquale anabolic diet, etc all have their differences.

[WARBIRDWS6]

Reduced HDL is a common side effect of androgen use and having low HDL while taking a androgen does not necessarily mean you are at a greater risk as research has shown us the protective activity (HTGL) of HDL is still present even though the number of HDL particles has decreased.



No there are differences

Atkins, mcdonalds keto diet, dan duchanies body opus, dipasquale anabolic diet, etc all have their differences.

I said earlier there ARE slight differences in all of them......but facetiously said in that response they are all the same since essentially they share the same basic premise.

[JudoJosh]

With the term cvd, are you referring to cardiovascular disease?

I sort of lump all cardiovascular events such as cardiac and stroke incidents under CVD

If so, are you referring to the new medical literature stating that high cholesterol does not increase your risk for heart disease?

I wouldnt day it is necessairly new information. These studies have been around for a while now, the medical community just refuses to let go of their flawed beliefs despite the lack of evidence to support them.

If so, I use to work on a cardiac floor in a very large, magnet hospital and attended one of the grand round conferences lead by some of the top cardiologists on the east coast and they were discussing this. They stated many reasons why elevated cholesterol above the normal range is bad and should be lowered, but also were providing evidence that high cholesterol above the norm didn't increase the risk of cvd. I didn't really pay attention all to well though, it was right after one of my contest preps ended, so I just went for the free food and because I got paid to sit there haha.. looking back now, I should have taken notes!

I work at a magnet hospital as well (which magnet status doesnt mean squat IMO). I have never attended any kind of cardiovascular conference but from my experience working with cardiologist, they mostly still hold on to the idea that dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol are somehow connected, so I dont know how much weigt I would place on their opinions on cholesterol levels.

Regardless, elevated ldl or decreased hdl outside of the recommended range is never a good thing, and should be managed via diet and exercise first, then supplements, than pharmacologically.

Mike

Decreased HDL should be a concern as the protective mechanism of HDL against CVD is pretty well understood. HDL levels and risk of CVD are connected IMO, LDL levels are not. And I agree, addressing diet and exercise should be the first step and not spending money on expensive unnecessary statin drugs.

Pantethine, niacin, taurine, fish oil to name a few things I have taken and successfully kept things in check

Niacin is effective because it mimics the effects of fasting and low carb diets but excessive niacin supplementation leads to other problems such as insulin resistance, high uric acid, liver issues, gout etc. Switching your diet will be just as effective without all the negative risk

Fish oil is an excellent suggestion! And I have been a fan of taurine for a long time now.