BCAAs are anti-catabolic

[JudoJosh]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22127230

Intake of Branched-Chain Amino Acids Influences the Levels of MAFbx mRNA and MuRF-1 Total Protein in Resting and Exercising Human Muscle

Abstract
Resistance exercise and amino acids are two major factors that influence muscle protein turnover. Here, we examined the effects of resistance exercise and branched-chain amino acids (BCAA), individually and in combination, on the expression of anabolic and catabolic genes in human skeletal muscle. Seven subjects performed two sessions of unilateral leg press exercise with randomized supplementation with BCAA or flavored water. Biopsies were collected from the vastus lateralis muscle of both the resting and exercising legs before and repeatedly after exercise to determine levels of mRNA, protein phosphorylation and amino acid concentrations. Intake of BCAA reduced (P<0.05) MAFbx mRNA by 30% and 50% in the resting and exercising legs, respectively. The level of MuRF-1 mRNA was elevated (P<0.05) in the exercising leg, 2- and 3-fold under the placebo and BCAA conditions, respectively, while MuRF-1 total protein increased by 20% (P<0.05) only in the placebo condition. Phosphorylation of p70S6k increased to larger extent (~2-fold; P<0.05) in the early recovery period with BCAA supplementation, whereas the expression of genes regulating mTOR activity was not influenced by BCAA. Muscle levels of phenylalanine and tyrosine were reduced (13-17%) throughout recovery (P<0.05) in the placebo condition, and to a greater extent (32-43%; P<0.05) following BCAA supplementation in both resting and exercising muscle. In conclusion, BCAA ingestion reduced MAFbx mRNA and prevented the exercise-induced increase in MuRF-1 total protein in both resting and exercising leg, whereas resistance exercise differently influenced MAFbx and MuRF-1 mRNA expression suggesting both common and divergent regulation of these two ubiquitin ligases.

PMID 22127230

 

[criticalbench]

Good post bro! Love reading this stuff!

 

[D2footballjrc]

Awesome post, in for more!

 

[itzDodge]

saw this on ergo-log, maybe this will give BCAAs some more respect to supp users

 

[AntM1564]

I usually sip on 10g of BCAA while doing fasted cardio. Does this mean it would be more beneficial to drink 5g prior and then sip on another 5-10g during?

 

[itzDodge]

I usually sip on 10g of BCAA while doing fasted cardio. Does this mean it would be more beneficial to drink 5g prior and then sip on another 5-10g during?

BCAAs are best slammed not sipped on, 5g prior, 5 g post, or just 10 prior

 

[JN230]

best for me has been 5g of BCAA 60min before each meal.... and then again `10g during workout

 

[fadi]

Bleh, we know that already. This does not mean BCAAs are better than whole proteins. Now everyone is going to jump on the BCAA bandwagon forgetting that protein contains BCAAs already and if you are having 1g/lb you already have high amino acid pool as is.

The research does not describe how their daily meals were before the workout and if they restricted protein input to isolate BCAA interaction. It also does not look at the long impact, for example did it result in more mass after 8 weeks than proper diet.

 

[MidwestBeast]

BCAAs are best slammed not sipped on, 5g prior, 5 g post, or just 10 prior

This just made me think.

I normally slam them, but intra-workout (lifting), I drink them in a 1/2 gallon jug throughout. Is that something that I should alter?

 

[AntM1564]

BCAAs are best slammed not sipped on, 5g prior, 5 g post, or just 10 prior

How come most intra products recommend to sip during the workout then?

 

[drooks10]

Good find, broskie.

 

[Torobestia]

How come most intra products recommend to sip during the workout then?

They usually also contain electrolytes, and maintaining a steady flow of electrolytes during a workout is a great way to replentish electrolytes, remain better hydrated and not get nauseated.

 

[tilldeath]

Bleh, we know that already. This does not mean BCAAs are better than whole proteins. Now everyone is going to jump on the BCAA bandwagon forgetting that protein contains BCAAs already and if you are having 1g/lb you already have high amino acid pool as is.

The research does not describe how their daily meals were before the workout and if they restricted protein input to isolate BCAA interaction. It also does not look at the long impact, for example did it result in more mass after 8 weeks than proper diet.

This, although I am a proponent of taking BCAA's during workouts and usually toss them in some where throughout the day.

 

[AntM1564]

I usually sip on mine during fasted cardio. Now I'm starting to wonder if I should have some before going to the gym in addition to sipping on them, or just have all of them before the cardio session. What do I do?!

 

[Colbert]

BCAA have calories...anything that has calories is anti-catabolic

 

[mr.cooper69]

Anyone have the full text? All the blanket statements without understanding the groups they were comparing may well be irrelevant. If someone with the full text could PM me, I'll provide me email address. Would highly appreciate it.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Anyone have the full text? All the blanket statements without understanding the groups they were comparing may well be irrelevant. If someone with the full text could PM me, I'll provide me email address. Would highly appreciate it.

I should have access, but for some reason, I can't pull it off atm.

I'll try tomorrow, at work, if I get a chance.

 

[mr.cooper69]

One of the guys here was nice enough to send me the study. Here's some relevant information:

-Sample size of 7 (not great)
-Leg press was the exercise of choice
-It was double blind, placebo controlled. Subjects exercised fasted, and were given either flavored water or 85mg BCAAs per kg of BW (or about 7g BCAAs for a 180 lb individual). -The ratio of BCAAs was 45% leucine, 30% valine and 25% isoleucine.
-The conclusions can be found in the abstract.

Here's where I take issue with the study. The sample size is small. And all of the markers in the abstract were taken on fasted vs non-fasted (due to BCAA intake) individuals. I really don't think there's any surprise at all that taking free form amino acids vs training fasted will yield different results as far as biological markers of catabolism are concerned. IMO, the study is poorly consutructed and should have used a carbohydrate or protein blend, also at 85mg per kg of BW, to ensure that BCAAs have benefits over traditional protein, carbohydrates, or a preworkout meal in general.

 

[RickRock13]

Great info!

 

[JudoJosh]

Anyone have the full text? All the blanket statements without understanding the groups they were comparing may well be irrelevant. If someone with the full text could PM me, I'll provide me email address. Would highly appreciate it.

see attachement

 

[T-Bone]

BCAAs are best slammed not sipped on, 5g prior, 5 g post, or just 10 prior

Lets see some proof of this.

 

[BPjohn123]

BCAAs are best slammed not sipped on, 5g prior, 5 g post, or just 10 prior

Any reason you say this?

 

[T-Bone]

I would think it would depend on your type of workout as to whether they are better drank all at once or sipped. Longer duration workouts and endurance events, it would make sense to sip them throughout.

 

[Jorsn]

There isn't a wrong/right way to take bcaa's.

 

[itzDodge]

There is a refractory period with MPS, by slamming the BCAAs you should achieve the largest boosts to MPS.

 

[JudoJosh]

Lets seem some proof of this.

Any reason you say this?

http://jp.physoc.org/content/532/2/575.long

 

[mr.cooper69]

Lets seem some proof of this.

Any reason you say this?

I would think it would depend on your type of workout as to whether they are better drank all at once or sipped. Longer duration workouts and endurance events, it would make sense to sip them throughout.

There isn't a wrong/right way to take bcaa's.

They will serve a different (and IMO lesser) purpose if you don't spike leucine levels.

 

[schizm]

There is a refractory period with MPS, by slamming the BCAAs you should achieve the largest boosts to MPS.

They will serve a different (and IMO lesser) purpose if you don't spike leucine levels.

(somewhat rhetorical question, that I'm pretty sure I know how each of you will answer) but for both of you, you'd opt to not use BCAA's intraWO, at all? but rather pre and/or post only...?

 

[itzDodge]

(somewhat rhetorical question, that I'm pretty sure I know how each of you will answer) but for both of you, you'd opt to not use BCAA's intraWO, at all? but rather pre and/or post only...?

Personally I'd say pre/post 5-10g of BCAAs

 

[mr.cooper69]

(somewhat rhetorical question, that I'm pretty sure I know how each of you will answer) but for both of you, you'd opt to not use BCAA's intraWO, at all? but rather pre and/or post only...?

I'd have them either preworkout or postworkout, depending on the timing of your meals periworkout. I lean a little more towards preworkout though. Amount should be 0.045-0.065g Leu/kg BW.

 

[schizm]

Personally I'd say pre/post 5-10g of BCAAs

I'd have them either preworkout or postworkout, depending on the timing of your meals periworkout. I lean a little more towards preworkout though. Amount should be 0.045-0.065g Leu/kg BW.

basically what I thought each of you would say Tks!

..in regards of the timing of meals periWO....I imgaine if one were working out either in a fasted state or near fasted state (say an apple/protein shake, 45-60mins prior to workout), then you'd recommend the 10g bcaa preWO....? (as long as some type of postWO nutrition was happening within 20-45 mins from the end of the workout)

 

[itzDodge]

basically what I thought each of you would say Tks!

..in regards of the timing of meals periWO....I imgaine if one were working out either in a fasted state or near fasted state (say an apple/protein shake, 45-60mins prior to workout), then you'd recommend the 10g bcaa preWO....? (as long as some type of postWO nutrition was happening within 20-45 mins from the end of the workout)

10g BCAA pre would be nice and if you're consuming food high in leucine post then you'd be good to go

check page 3
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf

 

[T-Bone]

Modern BCAA directions say to sip throughout your workout. Sure these studies are all well and good but its not gonna change my mind on how I choose to consume my BCAA products. Intra is how I'm gonna still use them.

 

[mr.cooper69]

basically what I thought each of you would say Tks!

..in regards of the timing of meals periWO....I imgaine if one were working out either in a fasted state or near fasted state (say an apple/protein shake, 45-60mins prior to workout), then you'd recommend the 10g bcaa preWO....? (as long as some type of postWO nutrition was happening within 20-45 mins from the end of the workout)

I wouldn't even bother with BCAAs in that scenario (provided you take a protein shake preworkout; if you go with the apple, then take the BCAAs).

 

[mr.cooper69]

Modern BCAA directions say to sip throughout your workout. Sure these studies are all well and good but its not gonna change my mind on how I choose to consume my BCAA products. Intra is how I'm gonna still use them.

That's your choice. Intraworkout isn't wrong, it just serves a different purpose. I also wouldn't invest so much in label directions.

 

[T-Bone]

That's your choice. Intraworkout isn't wrong, it just serves a different purpose. I also wouldn't invest so much in label directions.

What I use it for is to give me the energy to keep going with my long duration endurance focused work outs. If I was lifting heavy for a shorter period I might drink it before my workout as suggested.

 

[SweetLou321]

Which way would benifit recovery the most? During or pre/post. I know layne does 5g pre/10g post for the purpose of spiking MPS as high as possible. Also would a 1 hr session be considered sipping if you drank them over that time period? Ive always wondered about timing.

 

[Torobestia]

Which way would benifit recovery the most? During or pre/post. I know layne does 5g pre/10g post for the purpose of spiking MPS as high as possible. Also would a 1 hr session be considered sipping if you drank them over that time period? Ive always wondered about timing.

1 hour would probably be considered sipping as BCAAs enter the bloodstream completely in like 5 minutes IIRC?

 

[itzDodge]

Which way would benifit recovery the most? During or pre/post. I know layne does 5g pre/10g post for the purpose of spiking MPS as high as possible. Also would a 1 hr session be considered sipping if you drank them over that time period? Ive always wondered about timing.

Its hard to say as to what would benefit recovery most but I assume 5pre/10post would be best.

I would consider that sipping, an easy way to think about it is, if you slam 1 shot of tequila it wall have a far more prominent effect than if you were sipping it for an hour

^^^Not exact science but you get the picture

 

[Torobestia]

Its hard to say as to what would benefit recovery most but I assume 5pre/10post would be best.

I would consider that sipping, an easy way to think about it is, if you slam 1 shot of tequila it wall have a far more prominent effect than if you were sipping it for an hour

^^^Not exact science but you get the picture

The thing I've noticed with my own BCAA experimentation is the more you drink of it (more grams) the better it'll help your recovery. I noticed a big effect taking it in preWO vs. post. I think there's something about taking them preWO that helps lessen muscle damage and diminishes DOMS. I think taking it both times is smart, but frontload vs. backload for sure if you're in an either/or situation. Or consume it all preWO and just drink your normal whey PWO.

EDIT: meant to reply to Lou but you all get the idea

 

[lonewolf0420]

What's everyone's thoughts on BCAA taken mid-day, during a caloric restriction?

 

[mr.cooper69]

What's everyone's thoughts on BCAA taken mid-day, during a caloric restriction?

Time of day is irrelevant. Two or more hours post prandially is the key. Spaced in "fasting" periods would be best.

 

[schizm]

Great info Coop & ItzD :kiss: