Tri-Max gave me gyno

[wdecuir]

I wanted to you guys know that tri-max is nothing to play around with. I was doing a 3rd 3 week cycle of m1t. I was into my pct nolva 80mg week 1, 60mg week2, 40 week3, and week four 20mg . at that point i started taking tri-max at the dosage of 3 pills a day. i have used tri-max in the past on three diferent occassions. I took that for two weeks. At th end of those 2 weeks i started to have tender nipples. I immdeiatley got back on nolva. That didn't work. I ended up going to the doctor and he found that, by the process of bloodwork, that i had severe hyperthyroidism. He told that that i need to start eating 400 carbs a day. the condition has still not cleard up. I still have a lump behind each nipple. I have an appointment of Sept 14. I will let you guys know what happens then. Please take trimax with caution.

 

[SUPERMAN0383]

I wanted to you guys know that tri-max is nothing to play around with. I was doing a 2nd 3 cycle of m1t. I was into my pct nolva 80mg week 1, 60mg week2, 40 week3, and week four 20mg . at that point i started taking tri-max at the dosage of 3 pills a day. i have used tri-max in the past on three diferent occassions. I took that for two weeks. At th end of those 2 weeks i started to have tender nipples. I immdeiatley got back on nolva. That didn't work. I ended up going to the doctor and he found that, by the process of bloodwork, that i had severe hyperthyroidism. He told that that i need to start eating 400 carbs a day. the condition has still not cleard up. I still have a lump behind each nipple. I have an appointment of Sept 14. I will let you guys know what happens then. Please take trimax with caution.

You have sepereate issues going on.. OF course you going to have hyperthroidism on Trimax..trimax shouldn't have any effect on gyno

 

[wdecuir]

You have sepereate issues going on.. OF course you going to have hyperthroidism on Trimax..trimax shouldn't have any effect on gyno

source of proof.

Choices of treatment for gynecomastia depend on several factors. The first is the cause of the disorder. If the gynecomastia is drug-induced, discontinuance of the agent may be all that is needed. If it is pubertal, watchful waiting is in order, since in most patients the condition will resolve spontaneously. Gynecomastia due to hyperthyroidism, acute hepatic disorders, or a recent onset of hypogonadism may remit in response to therapy for the underlying disorder. The second consideration is whether the gynecomastia is an incidental finding, detected only by the physician, or is brought to the attention of the physician by the patient himself. Mild asymptomatic gynecomastia detected only through physical examination requires no therapy other than treatment of the underlying cause. A third factor to consider is the length of time the gynecomastia has been present. A number of histologic studies have shown that gynecomastia present for less than six months usually demonstrates an active, or florid, histologic picture, characterized by marked ductal epithelial hyperplasia, proliferation of the periductal mesenchymal tissue, and periductal edema. In general, the indications for treatment include: marked pain and tenderness, severe embarrassment or emotional disturbance. The most uniformly effective therapy at any stage is surgical removal of the glandular tissue through a periareolar incision. In patients with a large amount of adipose tissue in the subglandular area, suction-assisted lipectomy may be performed at the time of surgery to improve the cosmetic results.

http://ww3.komotv.com/global/story.asp?s=1230175

 

[Scottyo]

Yep. Definetly a possibility. Thus the general recommendation to use MODERATE dosing. I would look into vitex or bromo....something to cut down on prolactin, although nolva is still not a bad idea.

 

[wdecuir]

Yep. Definetly a possibility. Thus the general recommendation to use MODERATE dosing. I would look into vitex or bromo....something to cut down on prolactin, although nolva is still not a bad idea.

i am taking nolva at 60mg/day and about 4 grams/day of vitex. do you think this is enough?

 

[T-Bone]

M1T, especially stacked with 4ad can cause gyno. Were you using 4AD?

 

[jweave23]

Apparently it seems possible, but not probable according to reports from many users and not a widespread concern from triacana users worldwide. Although you may have a valid point, consider this:

1. Triacana has been around for years and years without serious concern for gyno. Europeans have been using it much longer/more than the U.S from what I have read, and there has never been a widespread side effect of gyno.

2. You have been using M1T, a potent androgen. Even though you have used Nolva for PCT therapy, this is not set in stone that you cannot get gyno. Considering that gyno is most common in these circles from using androgens, which you have, doesn't it seem logical to you that M1T would be more likely to be the culprit?

Even if you got gyno from hyperthyroidism, you would seem to be in the overwhelming minority, unfortunately for you. Your source of "proff" is simply an article stating that gno may be caused from hyperthyroidism. I would ask that you do not state "proof" that Tri-max caused your gyno unless you have something other than an article stating that hyperthyroidism (a condition that may be caused by Tri-max) may be a possible cause of gyno. What you do not have is a source of figures showing percentages of cases of gyno that could be attributed to hyperthyroidism, androgens, other drugs, etc.

Considering your use of an anabolic compound, it just seems that using Ockam's Razor* (the simplest explanation of the solution should be taken first, as opposed to a more complicated one) one could easily conclude that M1T woulod more than likely be the culprit, not the Tri-max.

*I conceed that not all in science use this type of logic, but in some cases it seems to work for me

Bottom line: IMHO, Tri-max and its associated condition (hyperthyroidism) could have caused your condition, but it seems unlikely given your other drug usage.

 

[wdecuir]

M1T, especially stacked with 4ad can cause gyno. Were you using 4AD?

no just m1t milk thistle, rala and vit c

 

[wdecuir]

Apparently it seems possible, but not probable according to reports from many users and not a widespread concern from triacana users worldwide. Although you may have a valid point, consider this:

1. Triacana has been around for years and years without serious concern for gyno. Europeans have been using it much longer/more than the U.S from what I have read, and there has never been a widespread side effect of gyno.

2. You have been using M1T, a potent androgen. Even though you have used Nolva for PCT therapy, this is not set in stone that you cannot get gyno. Considering that gyno is most common in these circles from using androgens, which you have, doesn't it seem logical to you that M1T would be more likely to be the culprit?

Even if you got gyno from hyperthyroidism, you would seem to be in the overwhelming minority, unfortunately for you. Your source of "proff" is simply an article stating that gno may be caused from hyperthyroidism. I would ask that you do not state "proof" that Tri-max caused your gyno unless you have something other than an article stating that hyperthyroidism (a condition that may be caused by Tri-max) may be a possible cause of gyno. What you do not have is a source of figures showing percentages of cases of gyno that could be attributed to hyperthyroidism, androgens, other drugs, etc.

Considering your use of an anabolic compound, it just seems that using Ockam's Razor* (the simplest explanation of the solution should be taken first, as opposed to a more complicated one) one could easily conclude that M1T woulod more than likely be the culprit, not the Tri-max.

*I conceed that not all in science use this type of logic, but in some cases it seems to work for me

Bottom line: IMHO, Tri-max and its associated condition (hyperthyroidism) could have caused your condition, but it seems unlikely given your other drug usage.

dude i have used m1t on three different cycles and i had never used trimax at the end of a cycle. it is the only logical explanation. the derm i went took blood and said that was the case. i am not going to argue with someone with a MD. i feel that he is more knowledgeable.

 

[wdecuir]

Apparently it seems possible, but not probable according to reports from many users and not a widespread concern from triacana users worldwide. Although you may have a valid point, consider this:

1. Triacana has been around for years and years without serious concern for gyno. Europeans have been using it much longer/more than the U.S from what I have read, and there has never been a widespread side effect of gyno.

2. You have been using M1T, a potent androgen. Even though you have used Nolva for PCT therapy, this is not set in stone that you cannot get gyno. Considering that gyno is most common in these circles from using androgens, which you have, doesn't it seem logical to you that M1T would be more likely to be the culprit?

Even if you got gyno from hyperthyroidism, you would seem to be in the overwhelming minority, unfortunately for you. Your source of "proff" is simply an article stating that gno may be caused from hyperthyroidism. I would ask that you do not state "proof" that Tri-max caused your gyno unless you have something other than an article stating that hyperthyroidism (a condition that may be caused by Tri-max) may be a possible cause of gyno. What you do not have is a source of figures showing percentages of cases of gyno that could be attributed to hyperthyroidism, androgens, other drugs, etc.

Considering your use of an anabolic compound, it just seems that using Ockam's Razor* (the simplest explanation of the solution should be taken first, as opposed to a more complicated one) one could easily conclude that M1T woulod more than likely be the culprit, not the Tri-max.

*I conceed that not all in science use this type of logic, but in some cases it seems to work for me

Bottom line: IMHO, Tri-max and its associated condition (hyperthyroidism) could have caused your condition, but it seems unlikely given your other drug usage.

posted by BOBO on 1/30/04


QUOTE by Nandi: This sums its nice rather nice

"A cursory medline search will turn up a number of papers where the relationship between gynecomastia and progesterone is mentioned.

"What is being said is basically that progesterone can only cause or aggravate gyno in the presence of circulating estrogen."

Just a couple of quotes from studies I pulled up on medline:

"Plasma progesterone was raised in 36 of 50 (72%) men with liver disease compared with 20 healthy male control subjects. Plasma progesterone was significantly higher in men with non-alcoholic cirrhosis with gynaecomastia than those without, but no similar relationship was found in men with alcoholic fatty change and alcoholic cirrhosis. Hyperprolactinaemia was found in 14% of men with liver disease but levels were unrelated to the presence of gynaecomastia.. Increased circulating levels of progesterone and prolactin alone do not explain the development of gynaecomastia in patients with liver disease, but progesterone may be an additional factor acting in association with the known disturbances of other sex steroids. (1)

Progesterone enhances estrogen's stimulation of mammary gland growth, and our findings suggest that progesterone may play a role in the gynecomastia that occurs in men with hyperthyroidism. (2)

This is all we are saying: progesterone/progestins themselves are not capable of causing gyno (study 1), but enhance the action of estrogen, which is typically elevated in hyperthyroidism (study 2).

"True gynecomastia is a condition in which there is an enlargement of the male breast due to an increase in ductal tissue and periductal stroma.[13]"

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle...LN3SJ1SStuTa53D|-3360746919023192434/184161393/6/7001/7001/7002/7002/7001/-1

Estrogen receptor knockout mice manifest significantly impaired ductal development, implying that estrogen is key to ductal development, and by definition (see phrase in quotes above) gynecomastia.

I've cited these references time and time again. This is truly flogging a dead horse. If others wish to continue the discussion please do so. I'm bowing out as everything that can be said has been said many times over.


(1) Gut. 1982 Apr;23(4):276-9.

Progesterone, prolactin, and gynaecomastia in men with liver disease.

Farthing MJ, Green JR, Edwards CR, Dawson AM.


(2) J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1988 Jan;66(1):230-2.

High serum progesterone in hyperthyroid men with Graves' disease.

Nomura K, Suzuki H, Saji M, Horiba N, Ujihara M, Tsushima T, Demura H, Shizume K.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Use Nolva. The Vitex and/or Bromo won't do much of anything in this case. You want to eliminate the cause, not the effects (increase in prolactin). If you block the receptors, prolactin/progesterone have nothing to enhance. Don't know why people pile on the drugs.

My question is, why the hell would you take Tri-max during PCT? You have a very large increase in estrogen PCT along with increasing thyroid output. You were asking for trouble.

 

[ManBeast]

Good studies. Here's what I feel happened based on them. You were high estrogen (due to pct) and hyperthyroidic (due to trimax use), and therefore at a very high risk for gyno (according to these studies). Lesson learned: stick to clen or e/c/a type things for PCT.

ManBeast

 

[wdecuir]

Use Nolva. The Vitex and/or Bromo won't do much of anything in this case. You want to eliminate the cause, not the effects (increase in prolactin). If you block the receptors, prolactin/progesterone have nothing to enhance. Don't know why people pile on the drugs.

My question is, why the hell would you take Tri-max during PCT? You have a very large increase in estrogen PCT along with increasing thyroid output. You were asking for trouble.

i waited untill after the the 4 week pct then i started to take it. during the m1t cycle i gained about 20lbs. i wanted to get rid of the extra fat.

 

[wdecuir]

Good studies. Here's what I feel happened based on them. You were high estrogen (due to pct) and hyperthyroidic (due to trimax use), and therefore at a very high risk for gyno (according to these studies). Lesson learned: stick to clen or e/c/a type things for PCT.

ManBeast

i understand that now. i have learned my lesson.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

You get rid of extra fat with diet, not drugs that will cause more problems during PCT.

PCT is meant to raise hormone levels back to normal so in time you can hold on to those gains. It takes more than 4 weeks especially since it was your 3rd M1T cycle.

Just seems you are relying on drugs way too much and not to the basics in which you could avoid all these problems.

 

[wdecuir]

You get rid of extra fat with diet, not drugs that will cause more problems during PCT.

PCT is meant to raise hormone levels back to normal so in time you can hold on to those gains. It takes more than 4 weeks especially since it was your 3rd M1T cycle.

Just seems you are relying on drugs way too much and not to the basics in which you could avoid all these problems.

i wasn't expecting trimax to affect estrogen levels. you are probably right. i should have waited a bit longer. I just want these lumps to leave and the leaking of my nipples to stop.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

You could use bromo to reduce prolactin which is the primary cause if lactation but it will only help the symptoms, not the cause. Use Nolva until the lumps subside and learn your lessons. Hell, I learned the hard way to so we all make mistakes.

 

[wdecuir]

You could use bromo to reduce prolactin which is the primary cause if lactation but it will only help the symptoms, not the cause. Use Nolva until the lumps subside and learn your lessons. Hell, I learned the hard way to so we all make mistakes.

i am using vitex and hopefully i will get that prescribed next monday. how long do you think it is goingt to take to clear up? thanks for your advice.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Took mine 3 weeks to subside but I never lactated at all so it could take you some more time.

 

[synesta]

After reading your wdecuir all I can say is I hope it gets better for you bro. I am glad I read this one and can learn from others mistakes.

 

[LarryN77]

Trimax or any other thyroid supp has nothing to do with Gyno, the prohormones you are taking are causing the Gyno. Gyno has to do with Estrogen, not thyroid output. A high thyroid output should eat away any fat you have in your chest. Duh

 

[shootmeagain]

Are you serious? Did you even READ any of the postings above?

I guess not because you wrote: "Trimax or any other thyroid supp has nothing to do with Gyno..." and then spoke of 'chest fat' which is not what gyno is. Of course, you ended your comment with a nice, "Duh."

But some knowledgable bros did READ and responded to his concerns in a helpful, educated way.

ManBeast wrote: "Here's what I feel happened based on them. You were high estrogen (due to pct) and hyperthyroidic (due to trimax use), and therefore at a very high risk for gyno..."

Bobo questioned: "My question is, why the hell would you take Tri-max during PCT? You have a very large increase in estrogen PCT along with increasing thyroid output. You were asking for trouble."

And more than one study was quoted: "Progesterone enhances estrogen's stimulation of mammary gland growth, and our findings suggest that progesterone may play a role in the gynecomastia that occurs in men with hyperthyroidism. This is all we are saying: progesterone/progestins themselves are not capable of causing gyno (study 1), but enhance the action of estrogen, which is typically elevated in hyperthyroidism." -- J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1988 Jan;66(1):230-2.

 

[RSX-S]

Are you serious? Did you even READ any of the postings above?

I guess not because you wrote: "Trimax or any other thyroid supp has nothing to do with Gyno..." and then spoke of 'chest fat' which is not what gyno is. Of course, you ended your comment with a nice, "Duh."

But some knowledgable bros did READ and responded to his concerns in a helpful, educated way.

ManBeast wrote: "Here's what I feel happened based on them. You were high estrogen (due to pct) and hyperthyroidic (due to trimax use), and therefore at a very high risk for gyno..."

Bobo questioned: "My question is, why the hell would you take Tri-max during PCT? You have a very large increase in estrogen PCT along with increasing thyroid output. You were asking for trouble."

And more than one study was quoted: "Progesterone enhances estrogen's stimulation of mammary gland growth, and our findings suggest that progesterone may play a role in the gynecomastia that occurs in men with hyperthyroidism. This is all we are saying: progesterone/progestins themselves are not capable of causing gyno (study 1), but enhance the action of estrogen, which is typically elevated in hyperthyroidism." -- J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1988 Jan;66(1):230-2.

lol, where's that pwned picture when you need it.

Good post.

 

[LarryN77]

Hey man, i apologize for the "duh" you were trying to help people out about the dangers of Trimax. But like others that have responded to your initial post, you must have separate issues going on. I will look up those articles online. I have been researching Tiratricol/ Trimax for a while, and all of the online articles about Tiratricol /Trimax - which is a derivative of T3, or a metabolite of T3 however you want to look at it, say NOTHING about inducing gyno, they do say alot about SUPPRESSING your thyroid so you may become hypothyroid after you stop taking it. But from what i understand is that gyno (bitch tits) is a result of excess estrogen which usually occurs from pro-hormone/steroid use, so when you use pro-hormones and steroids- a result is that some of that excess testosterone aromatizes into estrogen, which causes gyno and which also results in water retention. Usually gyno is excess fat that is stored in the chest that later becomes almost like tissue hence having breasts. I will try to find some articles online, but i did read in an issue of Muscular Development that Novaldex is not always effective. However everybody's body is different, and some people react differently to these products than do others. Some people never suffer any side effects. I have never taken pro-hormones, also i have never taken Trimax or any Tiratricol containing product. I have tried Dicana, and that did not do anything for me. I do like Cellucor T7, but i am looking for something a little more hardcore. And that is the only reason i am thinking of messing with Tiratricol/Trimax. I would try Cytomel/T3, but i want to stick with the Tiratricol/Trimax. From what i have read online, Tiratricol is sold in Europe as a drug called Tricana, and is approved for weight loss - i never found ONE report of Tricana inducing Gyno. Anyways, this is all just talk for me- because Trimax has been discontinued and no one sells it and i can't even find it anywhere. But i want to buy some, so if you or anybody for that matter knows where i can find some, please let me know in a private message or email, i will pay top$$$ for it too. And if do get it, i will be happy to post my results and any side effects i may get.

 

[JonesersRX7]

Hey man, i apologize for the "duh" you were trying to help people out about the dangers of Trimax. But like others that have responded to your initial post.

He didn't make the thread initially you dolt.

I will look up those articles online.

Don't bother as if you were to read the thread you would have known this.

I have been researching Tiratricol/ Trimax for a while, and all of the online articles about Tiratricol /Trimax - which is a derivative of T3, or a metabolite of T3 however you want to look at it,

Thanks captain already fucking known... don't regurgitate some bullshit apearing to know two shits...

say NOTHING about inducing gyno, they do say alot about SUPPRESSING your thyroid so you may become hypothyroid :scratch: after you stop taking it.

I just like how you bolded and underlined for pointless emphasis... I had to do it to the whole quote.

Usually gyno is excess fat that is stored in the chest that later becomes almost like tissue hence having breasts.

"becomes almost like tissue" --- are you actually believing you sound like you know what the hell you are talking about and anyone to take what you are saying with a grain of salt?

However everybody's body is different, and some people react differently to these products than do others. Some people never suffer any side effects.

Stop the presses, call the medical journals... no f'n way.... everybody's body is different?

From what i have read online, Tiratricol is sold in Europe as a drug called Tricana, and is approved for weight loss

Here we go again Captain... seriously... are you just trying to sound smart?

- i never found ONE report of Tricana inducing Gyno.

So that means it doesn't exists? Sure you slaptard...

Anyways, this is all just talk for me-

No kidding... just talk... could have fooled me with all your KNOWLEDGE

But i want to buy some, so if you or anybody for that matter knows where i can find some, please let me know in a private message or email, i will pay top$$$ for it too. And if do get it, i will be happy to post my results and any side effects i may get.

This one is simple... :banned:


... :gore:

EDIT: and next board you find.... try to learn how to use paragraphs..... at least you used periods right?

 

[shootmeagain]

Usually gyno is excess fat that is stored in the chest that later becomes almost like tissue hence having breasts.

I won't engage in online bickering but, for the sake of those reading/searching the forum for information, I did want to point out that this particular statement is just plain wrong.

Gynecomastia is a benign enlargement of the male breast resulting from a proliferation of the glandular component of the breast.

Pseudogynecomastia or lipomastia is the enlargement of soft adipose tissue (fat) especially seen in individuals who are obese.

 

[Dungeon1]

If your doctor takes blood and does analysis on the assumption that you ARE NOT ON ANY HORMONES or have not been in the past, but you just finished an androgen cycle and began taking a potent thyroidal component, then his MD is worthless as far as diagnosing your dilemma with any type accuracy. Did you tell your Dr. about the M1t, Nolva or Triac? If not than you have crippled his ability to diagnose your condition. Although it is possible that the Gyno is in response to the Triac, it is more likely the M1T, regardless of your past responses. Didn't you say that you used triac in the past also without Gyno? So there goes the argument that it had to be the Triac beacause I used M1t before. Just remember that if your doctor does not know what you are putting into your body, then it is impossible for him/her to diagnose what is happening to it. Your Dr. can't call the police on you for using androgens (Dr. client priviledge) so all he/she can and will do is caution you against it. It is better that they know in order to truly understand the different physiological phenomena that you are undergoing. Possibly you should try at this time to get a perscription for nolva. Not to go off topic, but I have often considered taking an androgen that greatly reduces natural test, having blood drawn and attempting to get a script for some type of TRT. Anyone ever though about that?