M14ADD dosing

[lpb1337]

Hi AM! :cheers:

I will be starting a cycle of CEL M14ADD soon, I have done a lot of research and have a few questions I would like answered by experienced persons before I start.

6'1" 200lbs BMI: ~20% 27 years old

Here is my plan:

• 
  Start a bulking regiment 1-2 months before starting the cycle.

• Eat 4-5000 calories per day

• Once I have really gotten the hang of the training and diet routine I want to super charge my gains with a 5 week cycle of M14ADD I will take fish oil with every serving

• I will load up on Anobolic Innovations Cycle Support 2 weeks before, and completely during the entire cycle.

• Cease all cardio and athletic specific training as well as all not support supps

• Consult with a personal trainer

• Have blood work done

• I have some Tamoxifen for PCT 2 weeks at 20mg and 2 weeks at 10mg probably using some kind of energy booster/diet pill to help shed the water, and some NO/Creatine pre and post workout supps to help boost back up Test levels

I have a few questions if you would be so kind as to answer them:

I currently have 2 bottles (120 pills). This is my first cycle of M14ADD but I have done other PH cycles before (though not as long), and I was planning on keeping it simple at 90mg per day for the entire 5 weeks. I have however not read any logs or forum posts anywhere where anyone followed the recommended dosage, most of what I find recommends 1-2 weeks at 90mg/day then ramping up to 120mg/day. My problem with that dosage is I am worried about side effects, and I don't have enough bottles to do 5 weeks at that dosage. They say that M14ADD converts to about 15% DBol, so at 90mg per day that equates to 13.5mg/day of Dbol. At 120mg per day, that would equate to 18mg/day of Dbol. Is it worth the extra money for the extra 4.5mg/day? Or will what I currently have planned be sufficient for a 5 week cycle?

Also, will a Tamoxifen be enough for PCT, or should I find an AI like Clomid to stack with it?

Thank you in advance for your help and expertise.

 

[lyfespan]

I run it at 120 stacked with epi and SD, i use formestane EOD to cut the bloat down from the M14add, I had a minor gyno rebound, but quickly squashed that with nolva

 

[lpb1337]

How long are your cycles? Do you run 2 weeks at 90, then 2 weeks at 120, or do you go for 5 weeks of 120?

 

[lyfespan]

I believe I ramped it up from 90mgs after the second week, I just wanted to give my body a chance to acclimate, that M14add will up your BP pretty good, had my heartbeat in my ears for a few weeks while on that cycle I ran the whole thing 6 weeks

How long are your cycles? Do you run 2 weeks at 90, then 2 weeks at 120, or do you go for 5 weeks of 120?

 

[lpb1337]

Thanks for the quick reply. If I run 2 weeks at 90 I will almost have enough for 3 weeks at 120 with only 2 bottles, so you definitely helped me make a decision.

 

[lyfespan]

That wuz it, the 2 bottle run along with SD and epi. Just watch out for your BP, i added garlic and xtra hawthorne with my cycle assist. I dont really fool with the phs any more, as i crossed over to the darkside.

Thanks for the quick reply. If I run 2 weeks at 90 I will almost have enough for 3 weeks at 120 with only 2 bottles, so you definitely helped me make a decision.

 

[lpb1337]

That wuz it, the 2 bottle run along with SD and epi. Just watch out for your BP, i added garlic and xtra hawthorne with my cycle assist. I dont really fool with the phs any more, as i crossed over to the darkside.

I am trying to convert over myself, would be nice to start off with the M1, 4ADD and kick in with some real test to solidify the gains. In any case I am going to wait to take this cycle to see if the dark side comes through.

 

[TmRich0808]

side effects of m14add at 120mgs is not as bad as youd think. I just got done running a m1add/p-mag bridge and i was scared about going over the recommended dosage on the bottle. However, 120 mgs is a perfect dose for great gains while keeping sides down. The gains dont ever really seem to slow down either. Id just have some kind of AI on hand for the extra water your body will be holding. I used CEL's formestane and it worked great. Best of luck bro

 

[lpb1337]

I have been on it a week now. The strength gains are phenomenal and I feel amazing (happy). This is at 90mg/day can't wait to ramp up. Have no sides, and no water retention as of yet. It's a shame this stuff is no longer legal and you have to purchase online, by far the best supplement I have ever used. FYI coming off of this will lead me into a test blend/tren stack for 15 weeks so I am expecting some massive gains. Running cycle support by annabolic innovations and have nolva and clomid just in case / PCT. Thanks for all the input.

 

[Novice 58]

I am starting a cycle of m1,4add in a few weeks. I have erase and some left over 6- bromo for AI while on. So do you think I should just add in the AI to start or wait to see if I bloat too badly? If so, what oral ai is recommended? Formestane or other topical is not an option. Looking forward to a wet/ feel good (hopefully) ph. SD and epi had me lethargic and joints were dry as hell.

6'5"
270
15-18% bf
Goal: a little bulk and to re- set my metabolism a bit. Been dieting and trying to lean out for too long. After a little bulk, then lean out a little with 11-oxo

Other than AI, I think I have support supps covered unless someone recommends p-5-p with the m1,4add.

Will do a 3-4 week mild bulk with 90-120 mg/ day m1,4add,,, then into a 4-5 week cut with 500mg 11-oxo + mild stim


Pct:
Nolva tapered down, erase tapered up pct


Not trying to hijack. Looked like the right place to fish for thoughts since I don't think I can start a thread


Thanks!

 

[Novice 58]

Oops,. 41 yrs old

 

[MattPorter]

GUY! F#CK!!!

Please avoid "bulking" with excessive calories when you have BF% in mid -high double digits!!!!

The fatter you are,,,, the easier it is to only get fatter when excess calories are being jammed in.

Yes a steroid will definitely help partition the calories to hopefully (mostly) muscle, minimal fat gains...

but you are already "bulked" at 15-20% BF ----Get lean first, like at least 10%, then blast hormones and grow LEAN...

yes, "grow lean" because you started lean. Not grow fat because you started fat.

In fact here is a unique approach I wrote about a LOOONG time ago --Thou Shall Cut on Gear and Bulk Off Cycle

So this technique would require actually using the hormones to peel off all that extra BF....then rebound during PCT....and get back on to BULK with hormones...

-Matt

 

[Novice 58]

Wow. Glad someone chimed in. I thought I might get ignored. A little background.

About 2.5 years ago I was 310 lbs and approx 30-35% bf. I dieted and cardiod down to about 250. I dropped the 60 lbs in about 6 months. Since then I have leveled out at 260-270. I got a little stronger and put on a little muscle since then, but improving body comp has been very difficult. The problem is if I go over 2500 cal/ day ( and I eat pretty clean), I start to get fat(ter). I have done anywhere from 3-6 cardio workouts/ week along with 4-5 weight sessions for the past 2 years. Mostly weights before work and cardio after work.

My current theory is that I have stalled my metabolism. When I say "bulk" on the m1,4add. I am talking about 3k calories/ day and improving my recovery time by working out 3x week on weights and 3x week cardio. I would do this for a very short time and closely monitor my waist too much waist increase in too little time woul mean I would have to alter plans.

Also , working through some joint issues- mild tendinitis. Want to see how a wet ph feels on my body. Didn't seem to make sense to cut with a wet ph.

Does any of this change your take on my situation?

Thanks for taking an interest.

 

[Novice 58]

Matt, Jus read your article. looks like I am planning almost the same cycle that you describe in your article. You talk about a "grace period" at the beginning of a cycle. At 3 k calories, I am not too much over what should me maint cals for me. And if I see too much fat in the first couple of weeks, I can drop it down. Don't forget I have 4-5( maybe longer) of 11- oxo and calorie deficit after the m1,4add

 

[ManBeast]

Glad to know that someone in amazing physical condition like Matt condones the use of anabolic and androgenic chemicals for cutting/recom vs. pure bulking!

ManBeast

 

[MattPorter]

Wow. Glad someone chimed in. I thought I might get ignored. A little background.

About 2.5 years ago I was 310 lbs and approx 30-35% bf. I dieted and cardiod down to about 250. I dropped the 60 lbs in about 6 months. Since then I have leveled out at 260-270. I got a little stronger and put on a little muscle since then, but improving body comp has been very difficult. The problem is if I go over 2500 cal/ day ( and I eat pretty clean), I start to get fat(ter). I have done anywhere from 3-6 cardio workouts/ week along with 4-5 weight sessions for the past 2 years. Mostly weights before work and cardio after work.

My current theory is that I have stalled my metabolism. When I say "bulk" on the m1,4add. I am talking about 3k calories/ day and improving my recovery time by working out 3x week on weights and 3x week cardio. I would do this for a very short time and closely monitor my waist too much waist increase in too little time woul mean I would have to alter plans.

Also , working through some joint issues- mild tendinitis. Want to see how a wet ph feels on my body. Didn't seem to make sense to cut with a wet ph.

Does any of this change your take on my situation?

Thanks for taking an interest.

Novice -- I have a better understanding of where your coming from now. If you in fact keep your calories at 3k or so....and perform cardio and stay active I can see you recomping and dropping fat while building up some mass.

Honestly that is your BEST bet for what you are wanting to achieve. EAT MORE food to increase metabolism + increase cardio to further augment the metabolic rate ---+ add in hormones and you will be more muscular and LEANER than before with a more efficient metabolic rate.

-Matt

 

[RickRock13]

Glad to know that someone in amazing physical condition like Matt condones the use of anabolic and androgenic chemicals for cutting/recom vs. pure bulking!

ManBeast

X2...agreed!

 

[rochabp]

GUY! F#CK!!! Please avoid "bulking" with excessive calories when you have BF% in mid -high double digits!!!! The fatter you are,,,, the easier it is to only get fatter when excess calories are being jammed in. Yes a steroid will definitely help partition the calories to hopefully (mostly) muscle, minimal fat gains... but you are already "bulked" at 15-20% BF ----Get lean first, like at least 10%, then blast hormones and grow LEAN... yes, "grow lean" because you started lean. Not grow fat because you started fat. In fact here is a unique approach I wrote about a LOOONG time ago --Thou Shall Cut on Gear and Bulk Off Cycle So this technique would require actually using the hormones to peel off all that extra BF....then rebound during PCT....and get back on to BULK with hormones... -Matt

exactly my thoughts

 

[lpb1337]

This is just my experience, and this is going to be different for you. I am 26 years old, I am 6'1" and started this cycle at 199-200 lbs, and around 20% body fat. I am not into 1.5 weeks, following the recommended dosage, and have just started ramping up to 120mg every work out day gearing up for 120mg/day.

Within 1 week I put on 10 pounds of solid muscle and added 50 pounds to all my lifts, and dropped 2% b/f. I am following the famous 5x5 routine started by Reg Park, and copied by Arnold and Bill Starr. I got the pdf from stronglifts.com for free. The emphasis is on deep squats 3 times a week which will increase hgh and test levels naturally, and I attribute a lot of the gains I am making from this program and eating right, but I have been working out off and on for years and never had gains as fast as I have made them on CEL M14ADD.

I have been on a moderate bulking diet, trying to get in 3500 calories a day, but not going over board. I started this cycle to get me where I wanted to go a little faster than my crappy genetics wanted to move (my dad is skinny, and I used to be a 160 lb weakling).

I am now at 217 lbs, and have 3 weeks left. I have experienced no sides, no gyno, no itchy nipples, etc. I have just noticed within the last few days my face and neck look a little more puffy, but I kind of like the way I look, and who cares my body is getting huge! I just went to the Dr. for a regular checkup and had my blood pressure checked which is in normal range. My Dr. couldn't believe how much muscle/weight I have put on since I saw him 1 month ago, and commended me for the dedication.

My muscles are rock hard, and the strength I have gained is unreal. My wife can't keep her hands off of my arms, my libido is ridiculous, and people at work are commenting about my body, and the people at the gym are looking at me like holy cow this guy is getting stronger fast. I am actually squatting, shoulder pressing, and back rowing more than people who look bigger than me (those guys probably spend more time finding new roids than working out).

Don't worry about gyno until it happens, keep some nolva on hand, but I have never seen any scientific documents proving that any of these over the coutner AIs from supplement stores work. You will know you have a problem with gyno because your nipples will start to itch or hurt, just wearing a cotton t shirt will start to irritate the f$#@ out of them. If this happens, then you will want to start taking nolvadex immediately which is easy to acquire online from overseas pharms online. What I would do in that situation is go to a Dr. and tell him the truth and he should prescribe an AI for you. Thanks to Hippa he can't tell anyone, and his job is to help you so he has no choice even if he doesn't like it.

Anyway I have had no sides at all. Don't think you are going to just swell up like a balloon taking this stuff, unless you aren't working out, or eating/sleeping like you are supposed to. All of those things will increase your HGH and T levels, and should keep the estro sides down. It's not a real steroid, and supposedly only converts to 15-20% inside your body. Regardless of what it is, it does work. I am looking swole as f$$%, rock hard, have awesome recovery times, my libido is awesome, and I have gotten strong as hell.

I was worried about putting on fat too, so I cut some before starting a bulking regiment. My ultimate advice is get into a habit of strength training for at least a month before you start the cycle. This will ensure you are in a good routine, and then the M14ADD will come in and help your body repair itself instantly making you so much stronger, and within a week or so you will see the strength gains come.

I would avoid alcohol for the first week I was taking it too, as I became a pretty mean and nasty drunk the first few times I drank on this stuff.

 

[rochabp]

im glad your having success like that specially on a massive bulker like a dbol ph, but i think something cleaner like ultradrol wouldnt have been better for you, specially since im loving it right now

 

[MattPorter]

This is just my experience, and this is going to be different for you. I am 26 years old, I am 6'1" and started this cycle at 199-200 lbs, and around 20% body fat. I am not into 1.5 weeks, following the recommended dosage, and have just started ramping up to 120mg every work out day gearing up for 120mg/day.

Within 1 week I put on 10 pounds of solid muscle and added 50 pounds to all my lifts, and dropped 2% b/f. I am following the famous 5x5 routine started by Reg Park, and copied by Arnold and Bill Starr. I got the pdf from stronglifts.com for free. The emphasis is on deep squats 3 times a week which will increase hgh and test levels naturally, and I attribute a lot of the gains I am making from this program and eating right, but I have been working out off and on for years and never had gains as fast as I have made them on CEL M14ADD.

I have been on a moderate bulking diet, trying to get in 3500 calories a day, but not going over board. I started this cycle to get me where I wanted to go a little faster than my crappy genetics wanted to move (my dad is skinny, and I used to be a 160 lb weakling).

I am now at 217 lbs, and have 3 weeks left. I have experienced no sides, no gyno, no itchy nipples, etc. I have just noticed within the last few days my face and neck look a little more puffy, but I kind of like the way I look, and who cares my body is getting huge! I just went to the Dr. for a regular checkup and had my blood pressure checked which is in normal range. My Dr. couldn't believe how much muscle/weight I have put on since I saw him 1 month ago, and commended me for the dedication.

My muscles are rock hard, and the strength I have gained is unreal. My wife can't keep her hands off of my arms, my libido is ridiculous, and people at work are commenting about my body, and the people at the gym are looking at me like holy cow this guy is getting stronger fast. I am actually squatting, shoulder pressing, and back rowing more than people who look bigger than me (those guys probably spend more time finding new roids than working out).

Don't worry about gyno until it happens, keep some nolva on hand, but I have never seen any scientific documents proving that any of these over the coutner AIs from supplement stores work. You will know you have a problem with gyno because your nipples will start to itch or hurt, just wearing a cotton t shirt will start to irritate the f$#@ out of them. If this happens, then you will want to start taking nolvadex immediately which is easy to acquire online from overseas pharms online. What I would do in that situation is go to a Dr. and tell him the truth and he should prescribe an AI for you. Thanks to Hippa he can't tell anyone, and his job is to help you so he has no choice even if he doesn't like it.

Anyway I have had no sides at all. Don't think you are going to just swell up like a balloon taking this stuff, unless you aren't working out, or eating/sleeping like you are supposed to. All of those things will increase your HGH and T levels, and should keep the estro sides down. It's not a real steroid, and supposedly only converts to 15-20% inside your body. Regardless of what it is, it does work. I am looking swole as f$$%, rock hard, have awesome recovery times, my libido is awesome, and I have gotten strong as hell.

I was worried about putting on fat too, so I cut some before starting a bulking regiment. My ultimate advice is get into a habit of strength training for at least a month before you start the cycle. This will ensure you are in a good routine, and then the M14ADD will come in and help your body repair itself instantly making you so much stronger, and within a week or so you will see the strength gains come.

I would avoid alcohol for the first week I was taking it too, as I became a pretty mean and nasty drunk the first few times I drank on this stuff.

Did I really just read "Within 1 week I put on 10 pounds of solid muscle and added 50 pounds to all my lifts, and dropped 2% b/f."

I wish something could put on more than 1 pound of solid tissue in 7 days, while incinerating BF!!! I mean that is like DNP + 2 grams of tren + 30IU GH and still I dont think legit numbers could be achieved.

I am sure you put awesome amounts of glycogen into your starved muscle cells and have become "tighter" feeling, but go buy 10 pounds of top sirloin steaks and stack all of them on top of eachother and then tell yourself you accrued 10 pounds of SOLID STEAK in 1 week.

NOt hating my friend -- just want you to understand what you are saying here....I know you are getting nice results, but anything in 1 week is AWESOME glycogen synthesis working at its finest!

-Matt

 

[Novice 58]

After my 1 st week at 90mg/ day of m1,4add , I am about + 1 lb and -1/2 inch on my waist. Arm measurement is + 1/8 to 1/4. I do feel a little bloated. Looking forward to seeing the results after I drop some of the water retention and transition into my 11- oxo and calorie deficit stage. Bumping the m1 up to 120/ day on workout days this week Not quite + 10 lbs in a week, but I am happy so far. Slow and steady for sustainable gains

 

[lpb1337]

Did I really just read "Within 1 week I put on 10 pounds of solid muscle and added 50 pounds to all my lifts, and dropped 2% b/f."

I wish something could put on more than 1 pound of solid tissue in 7 days, while incinerating BF!!! I mean that is like DNP + 2 grams of tren + 30IU GH and still I dont think legit numbers could be achieved.

I am sure you put awesome amounts of glycogen into your starved muscle cells and have become "tighter" feeling, but go buy 10 pounds of top sirloin steaks and stack all of them on top of eachother and then tell yourself you accrued 10 pounds of SOLID STEAK in 1 week.

NOt hating my friend -- just want you to understand what you are saying here....I know you are getting nice results, but anything in 1 week is AWESOME glycogen synthesis working at its finest!

-Matt

It's amazing what you can accomplish when you feed yourself right and follow a good routine. I don't think you are hating, and with all due respect I don't care if you don't believe me. I should have mentioned I had started my bulking phase a 2 months before taking the PH so I probably just started seeing the results from that at the same time the PH started working, so you are probably right. And I must say the 5x5 is one powerful program.

I have some more advice to ask.

I stopped taking the the m14add and went straight into a trenbolone + test injection 12.5 week cycle. I still have the extra bottle of m14add. I now weight 225 and am definitely seeing much better results from the AAS + test than the PH. I have about 6 weeks left of my cycle, which led me to wondering: if m14add converts into dbol, could I stack it with the injectables and get better results? Or would it be wasted since I am already taking 2 AAS ?

And before anyone asks I do have clomid, nolvadex, and daa for PCT.

 

[MattPorter]

It's amazing what you can accomplish when you feed yourself right and follow a good routine. I don't think you are hating, and with all due respect I don't care if you don't believe me. I should have mentioned I had started my bulking phase a 2 months before taking the PH so I probably just started seeing the results from that at the same time the PH started working, so you are probably right. And I must say the 5x5 is one powerful program.

I have some more advice to ask.

I stopped taking the the m14add and went straight into a trenbolone + test injection 12.5 week cycle. I still have the extra bottle of m14add. I now weight 225 and am definitely seeing much better results from the AAS + test than the PH. I have about 6 weeks left of my cycle, which led me to wondering: if m14add converts into dbol, could I stack it with the injectables and get better results? Or would it be wasted since I am already taking 2 AAS ?

And before anyone asks I do have clomid, nolvadex, and daa for PCT.

Now that you have test and tren in you, throwing in that PH really wont make much difference IMO.....

You are rockin and rollin on test and tren -- that is a bad ass combo, so you are good to go.

-Matt

 

[ManBeast]

test + tren = nothing else needed, why mess with perfection?

ManBeast

 

[rcdavis04]

Anyone know of a reliable, online source to get some gear? I'd appreciate it if someone can point me in the right direction. I recently ordered from an online source, but they have been out of stock for a while now. I need to go somewhere else, but don't have a clue who to trust. Help!

 

[rochabp]

Anyone know of a reliable, online source to get some gear? I'd appreciate it if someone can point me in the right direction. I recently ordered from an online source, but they have been out of stock for a while now. I need to go somewhere else, but don't have a clue who to trust. Help!

Shaking my head