Alpha GPC vs. CDP Choline vs. Choline Citrate

[MidwestBeast]

I'm in the process of putting together my "staples" supplement list for the upcoming future (sorting through some medical stuff, but once I get it figured out, I already plan on having everything lined up that I'll be taking on a daily basis). It's largely based around Dr. Houser's top ten list, with some adjustments, additions and subtractions.

Anywho, I'm trying to research between Alpha GPC, CDP Choline, and Choline Citrate. Of these three, what are your thoughts? It seems as though Alpha GPC is best, but when you're looking at price, CDP is the most expensive on a gram-for-gram basis; nearly 50 times more expensive than Choline Citrate and about 4 times the price of Alpha GPC. Again, that's on a gram-for-gram basis and has nothing to do with dosing.

All that said, what is the route that you would go? What reasons do you have for choosing one over the other? What would your dosing protocol be? Like I said, this is something I'm planning to purchase to take on a daily basis for life, essentially (I've got a list of about 25 items, though I'm not entirely set on all of them, yet).

Thanks for your input.

[MAxximal]

wow seriously 25 items for life?

[CDMMA]

I would probably opt for the Alpha-GPC due to the price for one, and the anecdotal reports from users saying which they prefer, that being A-GPC.

Then again, you could always simply try out both and see which you like better, which could end up being a combination of the two.

[itzDodge]

CDP Choline cause PinchtheBear says so

[counterspy]

I asked Doc about the cholines in that thread and he recommended CDP. So, I ended up getting some from Swanson. I found a deal for 150 caps of 250mg CDP Choline for $38. I had followed Alpha-GPC because it's heralded by the longevity / nootropic types for positive mental effects, though when I use it, I don't know if I notice anything special. Then, I also have the citrate version... so for now, I figure I'll just do the shotgun approach and use them all. My brain, waistline, and overall health will be better for it.

[MidwestBeast]

wow seriously 25 items for life?

I'm up in the air on some, still, but a rundown of the list I'm working with is:

• multi
• fish oil
• probiotic
• beta alanine
• NaR-ALA
• ALC
• LCLT
• CLA
• creatine
• B complex
• vitamin C
• vitamin D
• vitamin E
• CoQ10
• cucurmin & bioperine
• NAC
• Agmatine
• EFAs
• CDP Choline / Alpha GPC / Choline citrate
• holy basil
• EAAs
• Leucine
• Prop L-Carnitine

Like I said, I'm not sold on all of them, but outside of those, it would just be minimal supplementation from there on out for cutting or cycles, pre-workout, etc.

[counterspy]

All that said, what is the route that you would go? What reasons do you have for choosing one over the other? What would your dosing protocol be? Like I said, this is something I'm planning to purchase to take on a daily basis for life, essentially (I've got a list of about 25 items, though I'm not entirely set on all of them, yet).

It'd help if I actually read all the way.

What route: explained earlier. CDP on doc's recommendation; using it, citrate, phosphatidyl and Alpha-GPC.
Why? Fat loss, overall health, nootropic effects.
Dosages: 250-500mg CDP, 1.3g citrate, 1.6g Phosphatidyl Choline, 1/4-1/2 tsp Alpha GPC 50% powder. One time, daily. You're like, twice my size, so you could probably double what I'm doing.

[MidwestBeast]

Wanted to bump this up just to hear a few more opinions.

[Resolve]

It'd help if I actually read all the way.

What route: explained earlier. CDP on doc's recommendation; using it, citrate, phosphatidyl and Alpha-GPC.
Why? Fat loss, overall health, nootropic effects.
Dosages: 250-500mg CDP, 1.3g citrate, 1.6g Phosphatidyl Choline, 1/4-1/2 tsp Alpha GPC 50% powder. One time, daily. You're like, twice my size, so you could probably double what I'm doing.

Wow that's a lot of choline, what's that run you on a monthly basis?

[counterspy]

Wow that's a lot of choline, what's that run you on a monthly basis?

I forgot to mention it, but I'm really just trying to get rid of the Phosphatidyl and Citrate so that I can just use CDP and GPC. This was after I killed off a really big bottle of NOW Lecithin. I should've amended my earlier reply but I was in the middle of doing work and had to switch windows. Got caught taking a few too many liberties.

The citrate that I got - this place called Freeda Vitamins - cost me $7.96 for 100 tabs @ 650 mg. I bought 3 bottles. I think the price goes up in a couple of days. If I do 2 tabs each day, I have 5 months worth for $24 or $5 per month.

The Phosphatidyl is like $13.50 for 100 softgels @ 420 mg. Problem with this is one only gets like 50mg of choline per 400mg of phosphatidyl. So, my dosage only really nets me 200mg choline for 1.6g phosphatidyl according to the bottle. ~ 1 month worth for $13.50.

The CDP Choline was a deal at Swanson. It's still going on right now. 150 caps @ 250 mg for $38. If I do one per day, then 5 months @ $38 /
$8 per.

The Alpha GPC is at Smart Powders. I just get the 50g when needed @ $25 each. Not sure how long this lasts me, because I don't accurately measure nor to I consistently take it (like to pair it with Oxiracetam). If 1/4 tsp is a little over a gram, then we can say it's 1.5 month's worth. $17 per month.

I have no idea what the citrate or CDP powder tastes like, so if others do, I'd like to know. I think choline bitartrate powder is disgusting. Alpha GPC, by contrast, is hardly bothersome. Also, I bought some DS Craze, which I am really looking forward to using as a morning pick-me-up elixir. If it ends up working well for me, I want to try stacking it with a little oxiracetam and choline.

[MidwestBeast]

I guess I'm taking cost into account, but I'm slightly more interested in opinions on how the compounds work/which are more beneficial. I'm looking at this is a pretty much staple supplement for the long run. So, I could easily pick up something else up to run for enhanced effects here and there.

And I'm not just interested in is A better than B, better than C, but how much better?

[Resolve]

Real helpful post, spy. Thanks.

Beast, I have no quantitative data, but in my experience AGPC at 1g of active (so 2g of 50% powder) is heaps better than plain lecithin. Choline Citrate in general just seems counterintuitive - why add citrate when the body primarily uses choline in phospholipids, which are fairly bioavailable?

[RealBigga]

Damn @ 25 supplements.

Man, I don't think that's healthy as much as you think it is. Sounds like your fighting something mentally.

[MidwestBeast]

Saw this posted on another forum:

A better question is what effects are you wanting instead of just saying you want to raise ACh levels. ACh has a wide range of effects, none of the neurotransmitters work in a very straight forward manner; as in they don't really do one specific thing.

Alpha-GPC will raise ACh levels and is pretty good at doing it. Huperzine A, which is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, works as well. Other forms of choline do not directly raise ACh levels as choline is not generally the rate limiting factor, however they all do have other effects that are useful. The choline salts for example are good for raising the levels of choline phospholipids. Personaly with piracetam I prefer the choline salts, Alpha-GPC and Huperzine A work for increasing short term memory for me, but do nothing for long term memory. Centrophenoxine on the other hand doesn't help with either, but it does help with abstract thinking. This of course could just be how I react to them.

Keep in mind that Alpha-GPC and Huperzine A both shouldn't be used for too long straight as endogenous ACh production will begin to drop because of them after a while.

[RealBigga]

Midway, I seen a thread u made on mindandmus... and basically stating u was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. why would u take products that slows your thyroid down even more??

"Under-active thyroid (hypothyroidism): Taking L-carnitine might make symptoms of hypothyroidism worse."

[MidwestBeast]

Midway, I seen a thread u made on mindandmus... and basically stating u was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. why would u take products that slows your thyroid down even more??

"Under-active thyroid (hypothyroidism): Taking L-carnitine might make symptoms of hypothyroidism worse."

This is all stuff I'm looking at using once I have everything pin-pointed and essentially fixed. I'm still going through testing because it might not just be true hypothyroidism; it's likely something else or a combination of things.

[RealBigga]

This is all stuff I'm looking at using once I have everything pin-pointed and essentially fixed. I'm still going through testing because it might not just be true hypothyroidism; it's likely something else or a combination of things.

sounds good, hope all turns out well.

[RealBigga]

I would add EVCO to the list as well

[ssbackwards]

I'm up in the air on some, still, but a rundown of the list I'm working with is:

• multi
• fish oil
• probiotic
• beta alanine
• NaR-ALA
• ALC
• LCLT
• CLA
• creatine
• B complex
• vitamin C
• vitamin D
• vitamin E
• CoQ10
• cucurmin & bioperine
• NAC
• Agmatine
• EFAs
• CDP Choline / Alpha GPC / Choline citrate
• holy basil
• EAAs
• Leucine
• Prop L-Carnitine

Like I said, I'm not sold on all of them, but outside of those, it would just be minimal supplementation from there on out for cutting or cycles, pre-workout, etc.

im going to say CDP Choline, its one of the best out there, not cheap though if i remember correctly.

but in your staple list i would 110% drop the agmatine as its shown to agonize the Alpha 2 Adrenoreceptor which is obviously not something someone in your position would want to do in any respect.

also id stick with only one carnitine, like ALCAR, and wouldnt dose too high as Carnitine is shown to lower T3 levels (in hyerthyroid individuals, not sure in your case though but best to keep that dosing per day under 1g for your sake.)

i would also add some magnesium to that list. its seriously super important.

also to touch on NaR-ALA- ALA has been shown to reduce conversion of sythetic t4 (synthroid) to active t3. couple this along with too much carnitine and agmatine that may help you lose a little more weight and clear up some thyroidal issues.
.
Also look into calcium. a good amount 3000 mg, only if not Hyper Parathyroidism. if so there may be a phosphorus deficiency, and it may mask vitamin D deficency.

[RealBigga]

ssbackwards, can u recommend a good mag/cal combo supplement?

is this one any good?

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 Capsules
Servings per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) 700 IU 175%
Calcium (as calcium citrate, calcium malate) 500 mg 50%
Magnesium (as magnesium oxide) 250 mg 63%
Malic Acid (from calcium malate) 650 mg *

*Daily value not established.