Which supplements not to buy again?

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    Which supplements not to buy again?


    Which of these supplements do you think are useless and should never buy them again?

    Citrulline Malate ( I think it's good )
    Beta Alanine ( I think it's good )
    Glutamine ( Maybe useless? )
    L-Histidine ( Not necessary )
    OxiMega Greens ( Maybe Useful )
    Sleed Aids ( Animal PM, MRM Relax All etc.. ) [ Maybe usefull but with on-off ]
    Joints Supls ( Animal Flex etc.. ) [ Don't know, but rarely i see doms. Maybe body got used to? ]
    ZMA ( Maybe useless )
    Glycergrow ( It's good )
    DIgestive Enzymes ( It's good but low dosage )
    Fibers ( It's good but low dosage )


    And if i need to cycle citrulline, beta alanine, glycergrow, joint suppls or not.

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    Glutamine
    Histidine
    Oximega Greens (unless you eat no veggies)
    Sleep Aids (stick with 1...zma is cheap and effective)
    Joint Supps (they don't affect DMS, it's called adaptation to training. Keep some cissus and use ONLY if you have a flareup)
    Glycergrow (detrimental to hypertrophy)
    Digsestive Enzymes (unless you have GI issues)
    Fiber (on a BBing diet, you should have more than enough fiber)
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    Worthless: Glutamine, ZMA.
    Possibly can be dropped: Digestive enzymes (basically if it's too expensive or you don't notice a benefit)

    Beta Alanine is great to take every day, as long as you are dosing properly. Cit Malate is great pre workout. Histidine i'm not familiar with. Greens are quite important if your diet is lacking, provide a pleathora of antioxidant benefits. Sleep aids... use em if you need em, just don't blow a bunch of money on them. Joint supps, use them if you need them. Using CL's Orange Triad for a multi will provide you with joint support; will save you some money. Glycergrow... eh can't comment. Fiber supplement, use if you need more fiber. Your call.

    Nothing you have listed needs to be cycled. BA takes something like 4 weeks or so to saturate anyways. Cit Malate take on workout days pre workout.
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    Worthless: Glutamine
    Curious. why u say that?
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    So beta alanine everyday?
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    3grams should be just right. I only take it on lifting days as a pre.

    Some may use it different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stri8ted25 View Post
    3grams should be just right. I only take it on lifting days as a pre.

    Some may use it different.
    If you're not taking it everyday you're doing it wrong. Also, split the doses.
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    If you're not taking it everyday you're doing it wrong. Also, split the doses.
    Even if I lift on a 2 on 1 off routine? I use it in that purple wrath and it seems to work great
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    I stand corrected. Touche' sir.lol Ima start using more and prob a scoop and half on lifting days

    How much Beta-Alanine is needed to cause performance increases?

    Research has shown that you can take an amount between 3.2 grams and 6.4 grams per day to significantly boost carnosine levels and improve performance. The most recent research, now using 4-5 grams a day, is showing comparable carnosine concentration and performance improvements to those using 6.4 g daily. Based off the current research, we suggest 4 grams of beta-alanine a day, with an optional 2 week loading phase of 6 grams a day during the first month of use.
    http://www.betaalanine.info/
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    Glutamine - useless, but ill finish the bottle anyway
    ZMA - useless
    Tribulus - as standalone, theres better options
    Joint supps - ill fix my diet and training if it becomes an issue
    Vitamins - when bulking, unnecessary
    L-arginine - does nothing for me
    Sesamin - I respond well to it, but why not just buy sesame seed oil? Works for me.
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    L-arginine - does nothing for me
    U arnt the only one. what a sham of a nitric oxide booster. To bad the only way to actually get the vasodialation effect is at high doses....Intravenously..syring es anyone.lol

    The subjects consumed 6 g/day arginine (ARG trial) or placebo (CON trial) for 3 days then performed an intermittent anaerobic exercise test on a cycle ergometer. Blood samples were collected before supplementation, before and during exercise and 0, 3, 6, 10, 30 and 60 min after exercise. There was no significant difference between the 2 trials in plasma nitrate and nitrite, lactate and ammonia concentrations and peak and average power in the exercise. The results of this study suggested that short-term arginine supplementation had no effect on nitric oxide production, lactate and ammonia metabolism and performance in intermittent anaerobic exercise in well-trained male athletes.
    http://yourarticlesource.com/Art/411...-Arginine.html

    This one was pretty promising tho for those looking for more vasodilatation

    Conclusion
    These findings suggest that acute moderate-intensity exercise induces vasodilation through an increase in NO bioavailability in humans and that high-intensity exercise increases oxidative stress.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17679027
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    Any that you can achieve in your diet.
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    Cycling GlycerGROW is a good idea, maybe when (if) you come off stims.

    This is usually how my stack looks:

    White Flood + Green MAG (3 months)
    Green BULGE + GlycerGROW (3 months)
    rinse and repeat.

    Oximega Greens is probably the most important one on that list IMO, because it boosts immune system function, helps with digestive health.

    It's one thing to take a product to have bigger muscles, but it's a whole other ball game to take something because it makes you healthy and feel good (greens). Take it for what its worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhadam View Post
    Using CL's Orange Triad for a multi will provide you with joint support; will save you some money.
    Good point. It also has digestive aids and immune support. So using TRIad could knock like 3 things off the list.

    OT saved me a huge amount of money, when I was dropping $30 a month in joint support alone, not to mention digestive aids. OT is a no brainer!
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    Here's my take on the list:

    Citrulline Malate (good)
    Beta Alanine (Good...I get enough of it through other products (PW,WF)
    Glutamine ( I would not buy this.)
    L-Histidine (I get this through my EAAs and complete protein sources. No need to supplement it in addition.)
    OxiMega Greens (Important for digestion with high calories, important to stay healthy, probiotics, boost immune)
    Sleed Aids (These are useful but not everyday.)
    Joints Supls (Orange TRIad)
    ZMA (It's good)
    Glycergrow (It's VERY good and underrated)
    DIgestive Enzymes (Again, Oximega Greens and OT has these.)
    Fibers (Don't need them if your eating right and taking greens)
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenegadeRows View Post
    Here's my take on the list:

    Citrulline Malate (good)
    Beta Alanine (Good...I get enough of it through other products (PW,WF)
    Glutamine ( I would not buy this.)
    L-Histidine (I get this through my EAAs and complete protein sources. No need to supplement it in addition.)
    OxiMega Greens (Important for digestion with high calories, important to stay healthy, probiotics, boost immune)
    Sleed Aids (These are useful but not everyday.)
    Joints Supls (Orange TRIad)
    ZMA (It's good)
    Glycergrow (It's VERY good and underrated)
    DIgestive Enzymes (Again, Oximega Greens and OT has these.)
    Fibers (Don't need them if your eating right and taking greens)

    X2, agreed
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    useless- natty test boosters. unless being used in pct or for libido enhancement
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Glutamine
    Histidine
    Oximega Greens (unless you eat no veggies)
    Sleep Aids (stick with 1...zma is cheap and effective)
    Joint Supps (they don't affect DMS, it's called adaptation to training. Keep some cissus and use ONLY if you have a flareup)
    Glycergrow (detrimental to hypertrophy)
    Digsestive Enzymes (unless you have GI issues)
    Fiber (on a BBing diet, you should have more than enough fiber)
    Ive seen you mention this before about glycergrow and gms based supps. Care to elaborate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    useless- natty test boosters. unless being used in pct or for libido enhancement
    It depends on the person. I actually got some good results out of running bulk DAA by itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by owlicks View Post
    It depends on the person. I actually got some good results out of running bulk DAA by itself.
    placebo? well being? thats what they are good for. not arguing just sayin. no argument they make you feel better.
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    The whole theory that glycerol "crushes muscle fascia and prevents hypertrophy" is a long shot. On paper with MS Paint pictures it looks like it is legitamate, but highly highly unlikely.

    This was a theory made against companies when GMS was produced in attempt to bash the products. There is absolutely 0 data on it.

    In fact, if you do some research you may find glycerol is something you want to take daily if you are a performance athlete. Glycerol is not going to do anything directly for hypertrophy, good or bad, but it most definitely has its use in athletes and HIT workouts.

    Its also banned in the NCAA based off of the data on its use for performance enhancement. It works

    Arnall DA, Goforth HW Jr. Failure to reduce body water loss in cold-water immersion by glycerol ingestion. Undersea Hyperb Med. 1993 Dec;20(4):309-20.

    Inder WJ, Swanney MP, Donald RA, Prickett TC, Hellemans J. The effect of glycerol and desmopressin on exercise performance and hydration in triathletes. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1998 Aug;30(8):1263-9.

    Jimenez C, Melin B, Koulmann N, Allevard AM, Launay JC, Savourey G. Plasma volume changes during and after acute variations of body hydration level in humans. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol. 1999 Jun;80(1):1-8.

    Meyer LG, Horrigan DJ Jr, Lotz WG. Effects of three hydration beverages on exercise performance during 60 hours of heat exposure. Aviat Space Environ Med. 1995 Nov;66(11):1052-7.

    Mitchell JB, Braun WA, Pizza FX, Forrest M. Pre-exercise carbohydrate and fluid ingestion: influence of glycemic response on 10-km treadmill running performance in the heat. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2000 Mar;40(1):41-50.

    Montner P, Stark DM, Riedesel ML, Murata G, Robergs R, Timms M, Chick TW. Pre-exercise glycerol hydration improves cycling endurance time. Int J Sports Med. 1996 Jan;17(1):27-33.

    Wagner DR. Hyperhydrating with glycerol: implications for athletic performance. J Am Diet Assoc. 1999



    Tie them all together, the writing is on the walls. It is a great ingredient
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankTheTrain View Post
    I am not a fan of Beta Alanine.
    that makes two of us
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    BA tingles arent fun but the science is undeniable
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    BA tingles arent fun but the science is undeniable
    ba tingles are nothing compared to 500mg niacin. now that TINGLES
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    Tingle Flush madness!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    BA tingles arent fun but the science is undeniable
    yes the science is good, the tingles is the downfall...to much of it and i feel it makes my workouts very unenjoyable
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    Niacin rashes...take 2 roxylean ECA and feel the rashes come
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    placebo? well being? thats what they are good for. not arguing just sayin. no argument they make you feel better.
    I do find them useful for older trainers. When I was younger they were a waste of money but as testosterone declines with age there are some benefits to be had.
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    Nothing beats the niacin flush, I scratch like crazy, makes the BA tingles seem like nothing

    THings unnecessary will always depend upon diet, age and goals. Coming up with a generalized list is useless imo. What was unnecessary for me at 21 is much different for me now at 35. Just my 2 cents
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    placebo? well being? thats what they are good for. not arguing just sayin. no argument they make you feel better.
    daa causes gyno flare ups in some people so its gotta be doing something. plus i love the tingles of beta alanine. that combined with caffeine makes me feel great in a weird sorta way
    you can lead a man to knowledge, but you cant make him think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnitup122 View Post
    daa causes gyno flare ups in some people so its gotta be doing something
    DAA has some impact, but for me it was terrible. I couldnt leave the bathroom. I tried different versions, but it didnt matter. The brown faucet was turned on
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOOFAC View Post
    I do find them useful for older trainers. When I was younger they were a waste of money but as testosterone declines with age there are some benefits to be had.
    agreed. and the benefits are usually a boost in libido and mood. performance wise in the gym they arent doing much
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    I thought GMS was banned by the NCAA because its a diuretic, not because of its performance enhancing?

    That was an awesome post, nattydisaster.

    For the price of GlycerGROW, the added electrolytes, and how long it lasts...its worth using it and seeing for yourself the true potential of GMS. Once Im on the computer, not my phone, Ill post up some great info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    agreed. and the benefits are usually a boost in libido and mood. performance wise in the gym they arent doing much
    yep i agree, the performance in the gym from DAA is nothing, but if your looking to recover from a cycle or something then daa is worth it, but thats the only time i find it useful at all
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    What if someones natural test levels are lower than normal? For example, most older men? That would be an optimal situation to use natty test boosters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Glutamine
    Histidine
    Oximega Greens (unless you eat no veggies)
    Sleep Aids (stick with 1...zma is cheap and effective)
    Joint Supps (they don't affect DMS, it's called adaptation to training. Keep some cissus and use ONLY if you have a flareup)
    Glycergrow (detrimental to hypertrophy)
    Digsestive Enzymes (unless you have GI issues)
    Fiber (on a BBing diet, you should have more than enough fiber)
    How so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bashman View Post
    How so?
    He will say because it creates a hypertonic environment and "crushes muscle fascia" which "is detrimental to hypertrophy". Its an old far out theory on bb.com that people made up to bash GMS products.

    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    The whole theory that glycerol "crushes muscle fascia and prevents hypertrophy" is a long shot. On paper with MS Paint pictures it looks like it is legitamate, but highly highly unlikely.

    This was a theory made against companies when GMS was produced in attempt to bash the products. There is absolutely 0 data on it.

    In fact, if you do some research you may find glycerol is something you want to take daily if you are a performance athlete. Glycerol is not going to do anything directly for hypertrophy, good or bad, but it most definitely has its use in athletes and HIT workouts.

    Its also banned in the NCAA based off of the data on its use for performance enhancement. It works

    Arnall DA, Goforth HW Jr. Failure to reduce body water loss in cold-water immersion by glycerol ingestion. Undersea Hyperb Med. 1993 Dec;20(4):309-20.

    Inder WJ, Swanney MP, Donald RA, Prickett TC, Hellemans J. The effect of glycerol and desmopressin on exercise performance and hydration in triathletes. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1998 Aug;30(8):1263-9.

    Jimenez C, Melin B, Koulmann N, Allevard AM, Launay JC, Savourey G. Plasma volume changes during and after acute variations of body hydration level in humans. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol. 1999 Jun;80(1):1-8.

    Meyer LG, Horrigan DJ Jr, Lotz WG. Effects of three hydration beverages on exercise performance during 60 hours of heat exposure. Aviat Space Environ Med. 1995 Nov;66(11):1052-7.

    Mitchell JB, Braun WA, Pizza FX, Forrest M. Pre-exercise carbohydrate and fluid ingestion: influence of glycemic response on 10-km treadmill running performance in the heat. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2000 Mar;40(1):41-50.

    Montner P, Stark DM, Riedesel ML, Murata G, Robergs R, Timms M, Chick TW. Pre-exercise glycerol hydration improves cycling endurance time. Int J Sports Med. 1996 Jan;17(1):27-33.

    Wagner DR. Hyperhydrating with glycerol: implications for athletic performance. J Am Diet Assoc. 1999



    Tie them all together, the writing is on the walls. It is a great ingredient
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    Natty I like your post. My reasoning is not that it crushes the muscle fascia. You should know me better than that (although I am not ruling out the possibility that it does).

    I also came to that conclusion by myself...before I was a rep. I'm not one to let bias influence my decisions, and I did my own research. It is POSSIBLE that it crushes the muscle fascia (though unlikely because the fascia is quite resilient), but I was referring to the fact that GMS generally dehydrates me and many other individuals. Pulling water out of the myocyte is not a good thing. True, high water intake can combat this effect, but why put yourself in that position?

    And yes, GMS is demonstrated to be effective for endurance training due to its effects on water balance. This is strictly for lengthy bouts of endurance training, and I just think it has no place in a bodybuilder's routine.
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    Makes for good pumps for guys who like the feeling, but not going to be beneficial for BBing like an NO induced pump. Great ingredient for cardio days or athletes though
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    Glutamine easily.
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