Did you hear the big news about Ursolic Acid?

[LG Sciences]

We've been using it for almost 3 years now in our supplements...

 

[mattrag]

We've been using it for almost 3 years now in our supplements...

What products would those be? And what's the dose/delivery/ bioavailability ?

Sorry to sound so dry lol. Just asking.

Took trifecta and ASGT, as well as T911. So I have experience with LG.

 

[LG Sciences]

Methy 1-D
Formadrol
Anadraulic State GT

Bioavailability is bad IF you don't do it right, of course we are the MASTERS at increasing bioavailability so we do it RIGHT.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Andraulic State GT, gotta say, I loved it. I know a lot of people don't like it but hey... worked for me.

 

[rulk22]

According to Patrick Arnold, Ursolic Acid is great for fat loss.

 

[mattrag]

According to Patrick Arnold, Ursolic Acid is great for fat loss.

We shall see. As I am pretty backed up right now as far as testing. I won't be able to run anything stand alone till December. And I plan on running the new andro series lol.

I'll keep an eye out on the logs.

The new M1black have it too right? I am subbed to those logs but most have shown increases in strength. I shall ask them about bodycomp/fatloss.

 

[LG Sciences]

Honestly, it's like a wonder supplement. Good for all kinds of things, good for you in general and inhibits aromatase!

 

[nattydisaster]

No one knows because you called it 3-beta-3-hydroxy-urs-12-ene-28-oic acid instead of Ursolic Acid

 

[heavylifter33]

No one knows because you called it 3-beta-3-hydroxy-urs-12-ene-28-oic acid instead of Ursolic Acid

Lol

 

[mattrag]

No one knows because you called it 3-beta-3-hydroxy-urs-12-ene-28-oic acid instead of Ursolic Acid

Natty you have any experience with this stuff?
Ever heard of 5a-hydroxy laxogenin? Thoughts?

 

[John33]

We've been using it for almost 3 years now in our supplements...

No, I have not heard the news. Do you have a link? Why is it the big news now?

 

[MAxximal]

gamma cyclodextrin + 75% Ursolic Acid (400mg) daily

 

[EArch]

No one knows because you called it 3-beta-3-hydroxy-urs-12-ene-28-oic acid instead of Ursolic Acid

might look cooler if the nomenclature on the side of the bottle looks like some kind of hormone.

that said I liked ASGT a good deal

 

[nattydisaster]

Natty you have any experience with this stuff?
Ever heard of 5a-hydroxy laxogenin? Thoughts?

I've never used it myself. The laxogenin I remember seeing something extremely shady in the research and then hearing other things about it. Dont quote me on that though I might be thinking of something else. But obviously if it was gold it would be everywhere because it has been a known ingredient for a while

Or maybe it is impossible to source? Who knows. It has never interested me

 

[JudoJosh]

 

[nattydisaster]

No, I have not heard the news. Do you have a link? Why is it the big news now?

I believe the OP is referring to http://anabolicminds.com/forum/e-pharm-nutrition/182909-new-e-pharm.html

 

[LG Sciences]

Neither is exactly "household" and I think calling it "ursolic acid" takes away from the seriousness of the compound. It's a good AI and also good for all kinds of things health related...

Interested in the gamma cyclodextrin. Have a link on the research for that one?

 

[MAxximal]

Neither is exactly "household" and I think calling it "ursolic acid" takes away from the seriousness of the compound. It's a good AI and also good for all kinds of things health related...

Interested in the gamma cyclodextrin. Have a link on the research for that one?

Sublingual Ursolic Acid has 4x greater absorption than regular Ursolic Acid Powder or Capsules

 

[southpaw23]

No one knows because you called it 3-beta-3-hydroxy-urs-12-ene-28-oic acid instead of Ursolic Acid

Well played and the million dollar question is how much of the Ursolic Acid is actually in the product? Personally I buy things based on dosing, not because it's listed.

 

[LG Sciences]

Sublingual Ursolic Acid has 4x greater absorption than regular Ursolic Acid Powder or Capsules

Well, I figured that one, why the gamma though?

 

[oufinny]

Methy 1-D
Formadrol
Anadraulic State GT

Bioavailability is bad IF you don't do it right, of course we are the MASTERS at increasing bio-availability so we do it RIGHT.

That is all good and well but what is the dose and why is it so synergistic? I have taken all of those and I didn't see crazy fat loss or muscle gain. Also, what is the percentage of your extract. People have used Trib for a while too and some extracts are great, some are crap, same with L-Dopa. I repped for you, took all your products and it is a bold claim on the masters of bio-availability when you don't get the conversion in Methyl-1D that you do with transdermal DHEA. I can't wait to hear your response...

 

[mattrag]

That is all good and well but what is the dose and why is it so synergistic? I have taken all of those and I didn't see crazy fat loss or muscle gain. Also, what is the percentage of your extract. People have used Trib for a while too and some extracts are great, some are crap, same with L-Dopa. I repped for you, took all your products and it is a bold claim on the masters of bio-availability when you don't get the conversion in Methyl-1D that you do with transdermal DHEA. I can't wait to hear your response...

I've also taken all those and noticed nothing. The best thing I ran from LG was probably t911. But I had this stacked with a lot of other things. The dose in those are really low though. Considering the new E-pharm stuff claims two bottles are one month.

 

[southpaw23]

I may be wrong (.1% chance), but I have sneaking suspicion that they're not dosed correctly. LG feel free to correct me if I'm off base.

 

[MAxximal]

Well, I figured that one, why the gamma though?

i send you a link

 

[fightbackhxc]

if for the ERGO replies hahah. this should be interesting. LG are the doses in your products= to the dose that Pat is releasing?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Neither is exactly "household" and I think calling it "ursolic acid" takes away from the seriousness of the compound. It's a good AI and also good for all kinds of things health related...

?

every single researcher that has ever published research on it called it ursolic acid. And I would consider them serious

btw i was serious enough to put 150mg ursolic acid per serving. my guess is that is probably about 100 times what is in the product you have it in. Of course, thats what kitchen sink products do. so we are comparing apples and oranges here i suppose

I suggest anyone that wants to experience ursolic acid's potential buy a fully dosed product like mine.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

gamma cyclodextrin + 75% Ursolic Acid (400mg) daily

i hope you are using a method to complex the ursolic with the cylcodextrin because just physically mixing the two is absolutely useless

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Sublingual Ursolic Acid has 4x greater absorption than regular Ursolic Acid Powder or Capsules

you base this on some published science? or is this your personal guess?

i doubt it absorbs much at all sublingually unless it is formulated to do so. It resists wetting and so would just stick in your mouth as powder

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Well, I figured that one, why the gamma though?

Allow me to answer that, mr. MASTER of bioavailability (srs?)

its because the cavity in gamma is correct for the size of ursolic acid.

 

[fightbackhxc]

lol I knew it was only a matter of time before this got interesting! :redeemerwhore:

 

[oufinny]

I believe the teacher just classed the student. Well done PA!

 

[mattrag]

Figured 150mg. I hope it comes to market soon !!

 

[mr.cooper69]

ETA Patrick? Compound is quite intriguing. Can you comment on its effects on fertility, as I have come across a couple studies demonstrating that it is potentially spermatoxic. If you could quell these concerns, I'd certainly buy a bottle or two .

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Oh, look what I found. http://japsonline.com/final/68-71.pdf

Shows anxiolytic effect of chronic ursolic acid administration. Though the study was done on rats, it's still interesting.

 

[EArch]

I want to try this when I come off my ECA cut and return to mass gaining, hopefully stay lean

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I believe the teacher just classed the student. Well done PA!

come on, dont throw fuel on this. there should be no arguments here. LG had the stuff in their product, for whatever reason, in small amounts. I came out with it in large doses based on the new found data from the u of iowa study. there really is no right or wrong here.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

the stuff about fertility is not clear. its not toxic in any way per se, but it could reduce sperm motility which if you are having a baby could be a concern. to put it into perspective its way less of a reproductive concern than any hormonal supp

 

[JudoJosh]

There was some concerns brought up around UA on another board if you cared to address them PA

Thoughts on Ursolic acid? (PA new product) - Page 3 - Mind And Muscle Forum

Specifically on DNA..

what do you make of this study? Not in vivo, I know, but does this raise any concerns in your mind about the safety of high dose ursolic acid...



Atherosclerosis. 2011 Jun 22. [Epub ahead of print]

Ursolic acid causes DNA-damage, P53-mediated, mitochondria- and caspase-dependent human endothelial cell apoptosis, and accelerates atherosclerotic plaque formation in vivo.

Messner B, Zeller I, Ploner C, Frotschnig S, Ringer T, Steinacher-Nigisch A, Ritsch A, Laufer G, Huck C, Bernhard D.

Source



Cardiac Surgery, Research Laboratories, Department of Surgery, Medical University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:



The plant derived triterpene ursolic acid (UA) has been intensively studied in the past; mainly as an anti-cancer compound and for its cardiovascular protective properties. Based on the controversy of reports suggesting anti-angiogenic and cytotoxic effects of UA on one side and cardiovascular and endothelial protective effects on the other side, we decided to assess UA effects on primary human endothelial cells in vitro and atherosclerotic plaque formation in vivo.

METHODS AND RESULTS:



Our in vitro analyses clearly show that UA inhibits endothelial proliferation and is a potent inducer of endothelial cell death. UA causes DNA-damage, followed by the activation of a P53-, BAK-, and caspase-dependent cell-death pathway. Oral application of UA in APO E knockout mice potently stimulated atherosclerotic plaque formation in vivo, which was correlated with decreased serum levels of the athero-protective cytokine IL-5.

CONCLUSIONS:



Due the potent endothelial cell death inducing activity of UA, a systemic application of UA in the treatment of cardiovascular diseases seems unfavourable. UA as an anti-angiogenesis, anti-cancer and - locally applied - cardiovascular drug may be helpful. The DNA damaging activity of UA may however constitute a serious problem.



Copyright © 2011 Elsevier Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.



PMID:21703625

Full study here - Mind And Muscle Forum

UA also appears to have potent anti-proliferative effects and inhibits DNA replication which explains its utility for treating cancer but I am not sure if you want that under normal conditions...for example, what effect does this have on intestinal or epidermal cell turnover?



The other thing I find sort of odd about this stuff is that there are reams of in vitro studies, mainly with cancer cell lines and some in vivo animal studies but I can't find a single published study where UA was given to live humans for any reason...

also to add to the topic of UA it appears one apple peel is the equivalent to about 50mg's of UA

Isolation of ursolic acid from apple peels by high speed counter-current chromatography
Rosa T.S. Frighettoa, Rodolfo M. Welendorfb, Eduardo N. Nigrob, Nélson Frighettob, Antonio C. Sianic, ,


Abstract
Cuticular waxes of four varieties of Malus domestica were investigated regarding their content of ursolic acid. Peels from Fuji, Gala, Smith and Granny Smith apples were extracted with chloroform, ethyl acetate and/or ethanol. The crude extracts were purified by high speed counter-current chromatography (HSCCC), by using mobile and stationary phases derived from the two-phase solvent system composed by n-hexane:ethyl acetate:methanol:water in the proportion of 10:5:2.5:1. The phase proportions and the relative distribution of ursolic acid between the two-phases were optimized by TLC and optical densitometry, by comparison with an authentic sample of ursolic acid. The amount of ursolic acid present in the extracts as well as the characterization of the isolated compound were made by high resolution gas chromatography coupled to mass spectrometry (GC–MS), 13C nuclear magnetic resonance (13C NMR), Infrared; and by comparing thin layer chromatography and flame ionization detection gas chromatography (GC–FID) patterns with the commercial sample. The average content of ursolic acid of 0.8 mg/cm2 in the peel (around 50 mg per medium sized fruit with a surface area of 50–70 cm2) was found in the Fuji and Smith varieties, whereas 0.5 mg/cm2 and 0.2 mg/cm2 were the amounts calculated for Granny Smith and Gala, respectively. The HSCCC technique was shown to be a good method to purify free ursolic acid from apple peels and could represent a new technological tool to be developed to exploit industrially this source of product.

Keywords: High speed counter-current chromatography (HSCCC); Malus domestica; Apple peel; Ursolic acid

I dont know if there are any actual safety concerns over UA, especially considering a apple peel contains 50mg and ursobolic only contains 150mg (about 3 apples) so I cant imagine there being much risk but I think it is still a valid point to bring up for discussion

 

[flightposite]

Bump for judo. Very interesting discussion going on here the product definitely has me interested.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

There was some concerns brought up around UA on another board if you cared to address them PA

Thoughts on Ursolic acid? (PA new product) - Page 3 - Mind And Muscle Forum

Specifically on DNA..



Full study here - Mind And Muscle Forum



also to add to the topic of UA it appears one apple peel is the equivalent to about 50mg's of UA



I dont know if there are any actual safety concerns over UA, especially considering a apple peel contains 50mg and ursobolic only contains 150mg (about 3 apples) so I cant imagine there being much risk but I think it is still a valid point to bring up for discussion

i havent read the full text of the atherosclerosis study. i would love to see what peer comments end up being published by the journal that published the original article, that is if they publish comments on articles

 

[CountryLiftin]

I liked formadrol personally as a "PCT" to natadrol. I really enjoyed the whole cycle. I can't say it was the UA in forma, I am sure it was a combination of alot of things in it, and probably just the fact that I'm a badass that really made it work... lol


As for this new stuff from PAT, it looks like it could do some great things by really dosing the UA. Can't wait to see some more info and logs on the stuff.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Here is a study showing positive effects from UA regarding atherosclerosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21752377

and then this on DNA

"As for the DNA-damage aspect... well... There is also an in-vitro study called "Protective effects of Ursolic acid and Luteolin against oxidative DNA damage include enhancement of DNA repair in Caco-2 cells" which claims that UA can increase the rate of DNA repair & prevent oxidative DNA damage. Another in-vitro study, "Antigenotoxic effects of quercetin, rutin and ursolic acid on HepG2 cells," claims that UA can prevent tert-butyl hydroperoxide-induced DNA damage. The abstract even goes as far as to state that this "may help explain the lower cancer incidence in human population with high dietary intakes of fruits and vegetables." There are a couple other studies which also claim to have observed a protective effect, or that UA can increase the rate of DNA repair. Anyway, I think the jury's still out... As far as I know, none of these effects have been looked for or observed in vivo, in living humans"


-----------------------------

it reminds me of coffee/caffeine. one study says it is bad for health another study says its good. we may never know what coffee really does. but its not gonna stop me from drinking my coffee

 

[MAxximal]

Bring it :firedevil:

 

[oufinny]

Here is a study showing positive effects from UA regarding atherosclerosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21752377

and then this on DNA

"As for the DNA-damage aspect... well... There is also an in-vitro study called "Protective effects of Ursolic acid and Luteolin against oxidative DNA damage include enhancement of DNA repair in Caco-2 cells" which claims that UA can increase the rate of DNA repair & prevent oxidative DNA damage. Another in-vitro study, "Antigenotoxic effects of quercetin, rutin and ursolic acid on HepG2 cells," claims that UA can prevent tert-butyl hydroperoxide-induced DNA damage. The abstract even goes as far as to state that this "may help explain the lower cancer incidence in human population with high dietary intakes of fruits and vegetables." There are a couple other studies which also claim to have observed a protective effect, or that UA can increase the rate of DNA repair. Anyway, I think the jury's still out... As far as I know, none of these effects have been looked for or observed in vivo, in living humans"


-----------------------------

it reminds me of coffee/caffeine. one study says it is bad for health another study says its good. we may never know what coffee really does. but its not gonna stop me from drinking my coffee

Many thanks for your insight on this. I am sure that if we all are alive and eat apples on the regular, there is little to know risk your product will have any adverse affects. I for one will be picking some up right when it comes out.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Very interesting discussion in here. Love the knowledge being spread around.

 

[schizm]

Many thanks for your insight on this. I am sure that if we all are alive and eat apples on the regular, there is little to know risk your product will have any adverse affects. I for one will be picking some up right when it comes out.

Same here, Thanks for the knowledge bomb PA! In lieu of this hitting the shelves, I'll be jump starting my run by eating 18-27 apples a day...apples eaten so far today: one better buckle down and get busy. :doh:

 

[henryv]

This callout thread is sure bringing E-Pharm a lot of customers. Thanks LG.

 

[fightbackhxc]

This callout thread is sure bringing E-Pharm a lot of customers. Thanks LG.

lol :biglaugh:

 

[RenegadeRows]

I'll be interested to hear feedback with this

 

[T50]

Definitely including Ursobolic in my PCT.