Legal Gear LipoBurn Log

[GhostfaceKillah]

[Note: I was provided a complimentary bottle of Legal Gear's new topical fat loss agent, LipoBurn, in return for my review on several forums. I am in no away affiliated with Legal Gear and aim to keep my log as thorough and objective as possible. I will withhold no information, positive or negative, and will answer any questions asked of me to the best of my ability. I hope that you find this log interesting and helpful.]

I received my Legal Gear LipoBurn in the mail today. The shipping was great - it was sent out on Thursday and came well packaged with no noticeable leaking. I will begin my controlled diet tomorrow (Sunday, August 8), but will begin applications today.

Initial Impressions
The bottle is very high quality, as is the pump. The pump has a lock position and dispenses the product with little variability in volume. The product is a viscous liquid: LG seems to have struck a very happy medium between ease of application and drying time. The scent is somewhere between orange suntan lotion and gasoline, but once applied the orange scent dominates. Four pumps was enough to cover my abdominal and love-handle region, but I believe an additional pump may be required for larger individuals. The product dried in under 3 minutes, as stated on the bottle. There is no apparent residue left on my body, but my skin does feel and look a little dry.

Initial Stats
Age: 21
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 168
Bodyfat: ~ 10% (to be measured more accurately next week when I have access to more reliable calipers)
Years training: 2.5
Current status: Cutting on maintenance calories. My goal is to keep a stable weight while losing bodyfat in hopes of leaning out my midsection more for the upcoming schoolyear. I will be cutting all high GI carbs out of my diet except for pre and post workout and I will be performing HIIT cardio several times per week as needed.

Lifting routine, diet info, and waist measurements will be posted before the end of the day

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

LipoBurn Information

Supplement Facts:
1 bottle = 240 mL
Serving Size: 4 Pumps
Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving:
DHEA, Yohimbine, Caffeine, Octopamine, Nicotinic Acid, Synephrine, Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Other Ingredients:
Benzyl alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, water, acetic acid, oleic acid, propylene glycol, chitosan, capsacin, D-limone.

Directions: Rub 4 pumps into skin twice daily, where fat loss effects are desired. Allow to dry for 3 minutes.

Product Claims/Ingredient Information:

Designed To Target Subcutaneous Fat Stores!
LipoBurn is a stimulant containing, transdermal weigh loss agent containing the following ingredients:

The components of LipoBurn are combined into a special transdermal matrix designed to target subcutaneous fat stores. This will result in a direct delivery of these thermogenic and lipolytic agents to the fat cells where they can have a direct effect where you need it most.

Yohimbine: Yohimbine is a potent antioxidant and alpha-2 adrenergic antagonist. This action increases sympathetic nervous system activity, and can result in increasing the amounts of epinephrine. Transdermally, Yohimbine has been shown to be effective in local fat burning.

Synephrine: Synephrine is a beta-1 adrenergic agonist that stimulates the breakdown of fat, also known as lipolysis. Synephrine is also known to reduce appetite and increase thermogenesis.

Octopamine: Octopamine is a beta-3 adrenergic agonist and is a potent stimulator of thermogenesis and lipolysis. Used in conjunction with synephrine, octopamine is a potent stimulator of basal metabolic rate.

Caffeine: Caffeine is a metabolic activator, mild diuretic and increases thermogenesis. Caffeine is a non-selective adenosine receptor antagonist, which increases fat oxidation and mobilizes fat.

Nicotinic acid: Nicotinic acid is a form of the vitamin, niacin. Nicotinic acid is a component of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, an important cofactor in many body processes including the production of energy. Also, recent research has revealed a nicotinic acid receptor, which may play a role in weight loss and is a target for nicotinic acid and nicotine. The loss of nicotine stimulation with smoking cessation results in metabolic slowdown and weight gain. Nicotinic acid stimulates this same receptor and assists in increasing metabolism and fat burning.

DHEA: Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is well known anti-aging hormone. As a transdermal agent, DHEA takes on a different role. DHEA delivery to adipose tissue results in reduced levels of total fatty acid and a reduction in adipocyte levels of SCD-1 and aP2, two factors in adipocyte, which acts to increase fat storage. DHEA also has a thermogenic action in adipose tissue.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Avant Labs vs. Legal Gear: A Debate

Not one to withhold information, especially that related to science, I am posting a link to a thread where the Avant Labs team (along with David Tolson from 1Fast) deconstruct Legal Gear's LipoBurn ingredients profile. I myself have not read through the thread for content (it is currently 121 posts long), but a brief scan revealed that many scientific studies have been referenced in the debate. For those interested in a comparison of Lipoderm Ultra vs. LipoBurn or for anyone intruiged by the detailed mechanisms by which topical fatloss products operate, it should be a good read. Again, I am not picking a side in the debate. I will let the results of my product test determine the efficacy of the product.

Avant Labs vs. Legal Gear Topical Fat Loss Debate

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Training

If you've seen any of my recent logs, then you are already familiar with my lifting routine. I train with extreme intensity every time I enter the gym (I ritualize my pre-workout tradition of stimulants + energetic/angry music + positive visualization) and finish all of my workouts in under 60 minutes. With the exception of some arm exercises and my set of 20 rep squats, all rep ranges are between 6 and 9. Because the focus of this log is not to monitor my strength, I will not be posting details of each workout. I will, however, alert the readers to any changes I experience with regards to strength, endurance, or recovery, if necessary.

HIIT cardio usually consists of 12 to 20 minutes on the elliptical machine. I was a long distance runner for 8 years before I began lifting (yes, I started running seriously when I was 11), and my joints tend to ache if I try to do too much HIIT on the treadmill. I currently structure my HIIT sessions twice a week, typically on legs day or the day after, and again 2 days later.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

That thread is funny. Spook basically handed Seth his ass.

I see LG is still giving away freebies to buy positive feedback.

Avants formula and carrier are superior in every way. This is typical LG just copying an already existing formula and stating they are "innovative".

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

That thread is funny. Spook basically handed Seth his ass.

I see LG is still giving away freebies to buy positive feedback.

Avants formula and carrier are superior in every way. This is typical LG just copying an already existing formula and stating they are "innovative".

No feedback will be bought here. I hoped that my neutrality had been emphasized by my first few posts. I have a great deal of respect for you, Bobo, and hope that your comment is not directed specifically toward me. If it is, then I hope that I am able to change your mind. If not, sorry for being snappish :sad:

I will take the time to read through that thread that I posted. Sounds like a stimulating read. (For more where that came from, be sure to tune in to this thread on the Avant forums.)

 

[Dwight Schrute]

No, GhostfaceKillah, it was more directed at the bb.com population in which the younger members are easily "influenced". I should have been more clear as this was not directed at you but just in general "over there"

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

No, GhostfaceKillah, it was more directed at the bb.com population in which the younger members are easily "influenced". I should have been more clearly as this was not directed at you but just in general "over there"

Awesome. Thanks for the clarification. (I agree with you 100% - that forum tends to act as giant mobb that can be swayed by the simplest rhetoric.)

 

[NO MERCY]

Ghostface very interested in your feedback. I am sure you will provide us with honest feedback as you always have in the past. Best of luck with the product.

 

[Manu20]

Good luck with your log bro...hopefully mine will come in today and I will start my log.

 

[Harland]

did it burn a little or at all? It has dmso in it, which should burn a little.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

did it burn a little or at all? It has dmso in it, which should burn a little.

No, I noticed no burning.

 

[jweave23]

defintiely interested, esp. considering Big Cat's assertion that DHEA would be better for fat loss than 7-oxo

 

[Dwight Schrute]

But nicotinic acid decreases localized lipolysis. It doesn't make sense.

Also I wouldn't bank on the idea that DHEA is better than 7-oxo. Even the authors claim that 7-oxo is better as a thermogenic agent than DHEA. THis is a classic exmaple os Seth reading the abstracts but not the full paper.

 

[nsruffryder34]

There is no evidence to back up the claim that DHEA promotes fat loss better or even close to. Every study I have read shows 7-oxo to be the best for fatloss. And Seth has yet to give information or studies that show why they include nicotinic acid in the mix, while the avant team has provided studies to show it decreases lipolysis. Honestly it looks like a 100% copy of the avant formula... only with inferior ingrediants, an inferior carrier, and all around an inferior company....

 

[Harland]

im sorry in my last post, i said that it had a little dmso, i meant that it had a little CAP in it.

 

[jweave23]

well that's my point exactly....

if it is indeed better than 7-oxo let's see some studies and anecdotal feedback that says so. I can say this:

I have used oral DHEA and oral 7-keto. Winner: 7-oxo by leaps and bounds
I have used dermal 7-oxo but not dermal DHEA, so needless to say I'm not convinced but rather curious.

 

[roadrunner]

good luck dude, I'll be watching closely

if it works, I hope lipoburn is a helluva lot cheaper than another product I know of by an unnamed company

 

[pu12en12g]

Well I think we can all agree that it's "basically" a solid product... aggressively priced too, which is the ONLY reason it interests me. But I will probably be homebrewing my own version :thumbsup:

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

8-09-04

Day 4 impressions
Definitely some interesting observations. What I thought to be dry skin resulting from irritation turned out to be a dried residue from the LipoBurn. I discovered this when I was showering 8 hours after my first application and found that my abdominal region got sticky and felt as if it was coated with a thin film of gel as soon as I got wet.

My skin is beginning to feel much tighter in the area of application, especially in the hour proceeding product use. I have been using VPX CEX for the last 2 weeks and noticed a significant amount of bloat (though much less than creatine monohydrate); LipoBurn, while not yet reducing my waistline by a large amount, has visually reduced the water retention in my abdominal region. I was hoping to have pictures of this, but life without a digital camera is tough. I still hope to get at least a few sets of pictures up throughout the course of the review as my friends with cameras give in to my pleading.

I am not sure how Avant's Lipoderm feels when it dries after application, but I am definitely aware that something is awry with my trunk on the days that I apply LipoBurn. The dry skin/residue may present a problem if you intend to bare your torso at any point. I would suggest rinsing yourself off and applying a little lotion to the area before hitting the beach or the bedroom.

Measurements
Day 0: Waist = 30.125 inches
Day 4: Waist = 30.000 inches

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

It's a shame that the supplement forum has been inundated with so many LipoBurn logs. While I certainly have nothing against the guys posting, and it is always great to get solid feedback on a new product, it really hit me just now how commercial a ton of logs for one product looks. Interpret that as you want.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Lipoderm feels cool upon applying and doesn't leave a residue. If you are having some residue left over it could mean an absortion problem. Thats just speculation though...

 

[NoSwtTea4U]

It's a shame that the supplement forum has been inundated with so many LipoBurn logs. While I certainly have nothing against the guys posting, and it is always great to get solid feedback on a new product, it really hit me just now how commercial a ton of logs for one product looks. Interpret that as you want.

I agree and I thought about not posting mine, but all of ours came like the same time tonight, but if the mods feel like there are too many, feel free to delete mine as I don't want to cause any problems.

 

[size]

If you are having some residue left over it could mean an absortion problem. Thats just speculation though...

I think the residue is probably because of the chitosan included in the formula.

 

[Manu20]

I decided to post mine here since I frequent this board often....if the mods would rather me not post my log I will abide.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

One is enough. I don't feel like having the Supplement section full of logs of people who got free product.

LG has a forum of their own for this very reason.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

One is enough. I don't feel like having the Supplement section full of logs of people who got free product.

LG has a forum of their own for this very reason.

How about one consolidated log? Anyone who so desires is free to post away in this log or I am more than willing to relocate my posts to a generalized thread. Whatever is agreed on is fine by me.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Fine by me. Everyone can post in here. Problem sovled.

I love when things go smooth.

 

[Manu20]

Thats sounds fine...I can just post updates in your thread.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Glad things worked out. My apologies to anyone whose log was deleted - it could just as well have been mine. Let's get this experiment back on track. Also, anyone with more Lipoderm experience re: residue, drying time, etc, post away.

 

[wojo]

par has said he and spook agree that dhea is superior to 7-oxo there just not allowed to make a gel with dhea in because of the whole one and one+ fiasco.also i find it funny that lg doesnt research anything not even there name of the product that is owned by sann.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Supposedly the copyright on the name Lipoburn expired and Legal Gear was able to, err, legally pick it up.

 

[wojo]

just caught that..was going to delete it but u replied..hehe.personally im curious to see how this goes hving used bsl'setched and avants absolved..loved them both..but i seriously dont think i can bring myself to buy a LG product its just bad taste to me to do so..lol

 

[NoSwtTea4U]

Glad things worked out. My apologies to anyone whose log was deleted - it could just as well have been mine. Let's get this experiment back on track. Also, anyone with more Lipoderm experience re: residue, drying time, etc, post away.

I also experience the residue, it reminds me of when I put on pure Aloe Vera gel. It kind of leaves a "stiff" feeling. It doesn't bother me at all but I am experiencing the same thing as you.

 

[Brodus]

Sorry to thead-jack, but Wojo, you had good results from Etched? I thought it was shat, and a serious irritant to boot....I tried it twice, both times got a rash, both times didn't become "etched" in the local region, both times had systemic uptake. I think it's way underdosed, has a poor carrier, and is not a localized agent, though they claim it is.

Any updates on the log GFK? Despite all the debate, I'd love to hear how it's going.

 

[Manu20]

Applied mine this morning...rubbed in pretty easy. Smell wasn't too great but its no big deal. No residue but the area looks a little red.

 

[wojo]

Sorry to thead-jack, but Wojo, you had good results from Etched? I thought it was shat, and a serious irritant to boot....I tried it twice, both times got a rash, both times didn't become "etched" in the local region, both times had systemic uptake. I think it's way underdosed, has a poor carrier, and is not a localized agent, though they claim it is.

Any updates on the log GFK? Despite all the debate, I'd love to hear how it's going.

well thanx for ur reults..lol...actually i used etched when it was a gel and came in a 4 oz metal bottle. i do agree with what u said.altho i do prefer a sprayer..the 2oz bottle doesnt cut it

 

[Manu20]

After mine dried I felt like I had a layer of glue on my stomach.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

After mine dried I felt like I had a layer of glue on my stomach.

Exactly.

 

[jweave23]

yeah I liked the way the Tri-max thread basically turned out that way, one giant log

Chitosan dermal?? ummkay, that does seem odd to me, didn't know it was in there (or actually does jack crap for that matter)

 

[size]

Chitosan dermal?? ummkay, that does seem odd to me, didn't know it was in there (or actually does jack crap for that matter)

Actually, I believe there are studies on using chitosan. I think it has something to do with creating a layer/barrier, hence the reason I believe it is causing the residue.

 

[wojo]

well according to the studies big cat posted on here awhle ago "transdermal delivery and accumulation of indomethacin in subcutaneous tissues in rats" which is the studies par used for his site delivery systems.u dont want residue hanging around.u want the top layer to dissolve quickly

 

[wojo]

well according to the studies big cat posted on here awhle ago "transdermal delivery and accumulation of indomethacin in subcutaneous tissues in rats" which is the studies par used for his site delivery systems.u dont want residue hanging around.u want the top layer to dissolve quickly

more of the the same studies big cat posted

 

[wojo]

and the last 2

 

[size]

Well, I did a little searching b/c I knew I had read about chitosan being useful in transdermals. Some of it discusses a "controlled delivery"
So here is a few pieces from abstracts:

The use of polymers for dermal and transdermal delivery.
Valenta C, Auner BG.
Institute of Pharmaceutical Technology and Biopharmaceutics, University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria.
The use of polymers for skin preparations is manifold. Requirements of such polymers are dependent on the formulation types. The most applied polymers on skin belong to various classes, for example to cellulose derivatives, chitosan, carageenan, polyacrylates, polyvinylalcohol, polyvinylpyrrolidone and silicones.

Transdermal administration of bromocriptine.
Degim IT, Acarturk F, Erdogan D, Demirez Lortlar N.
Gazi University, Faculty of Pharmacy, Department of Pharmaceutical Technology, Ankara, Turkey.
Bromocriptine (BRC) has been mainly used for the inhibition of lactation, treatment of menstrual disorders, Parkinson disease, breast tumours, infertility and brain tumours as a dopamine agonist in clinics. But current BRC formulations have some side effects and bioavailability problems because of hepatic first pass effect. Transdermal application could be an alternative route to overcome all these problem and penetration properties of BRC has not been studied yet. Therefore, it was aimed to investigate the effectiveness of transdermal formulation of BRC which is applicable to the skin. For this purpose, a number of BRC gel formulations (Carbopol-934 (C-934), chitosan (CH) and Gantrez-SP215 (G-SP215) were developed and the effectiveness and bioavailability of the formulations were compared in rabbits. Commercial BRC tablets (Parlodel) were also given to rabbits orally and plasma levels were compared. The effects of two different penetration enhancers, sodium taurocholate (ST) and ethoxydiglycol-Transcutol) (TR) on the BRC penetration were also investigated. The skin samples from the dorsal part of the rabbit were removed after CH gel application and investigated under electron microscope to understand the effects of the gel on the penetration and the possible penetration mechanisms through skin were also discussed. In conclusion, CH gel formulation was found to be the best formulation and comparable blood BRC concentrations were obtained when applied to the rabbit skin. Higher blood levels were obtained with the use of CH. The main penetration process was found to be through transcellular route but some other mechanisms were also found to be incorporated, after microscopic investigation. CH gel was found to be`a useful carrier for BRC administration through dermal route and the penetration enhancing effect and the mechanism of CH gel were first established in this study. It was concluded that transdermal delivery of BRC may be a very promising alternative route to the oral route for the treatment

Chitosan: a unique polysaccharide for drug delivery.
Felt O, Buri P, Gurny R.
School of Pharmacy, University of Geneva, Switzerland.
The aim of this review is to give an insight into the many potential applications of chitosan as a pharmaceutical drug carrier. The first part of this review concerns the principal uses of chitosan as an excipient in oral formulations (particularly as a direct tableting agent) and as a vehicle for parenteral drug delivery devices. The use of chitosan to manufacture sustained-release systems deliverable by other routes (nasal, ophthalmic, transdermal, and implantable devices) is discussed in the second part.

 

[Manu20]

The chitosan is whats responsible for the glue like feeling on your area of application.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Well, I did a little searching b/c I knew I had read about chitosan being useful in transdermals. Some of it discusses a "controlled delivery"
So here is a few pieces from abstracts:

The use of polymers for dermal and transdermal delivery.
Valenta C, Auner BG.
Institute of Pharmaceutical Technology and Biopharmaceutics, University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria.
The use of polymers for skin preparations is manifold. Requirements of such polymers are dependent on the formulation types. The most applied polymers on skin belong to various classes, for example to cellulose derivatives, chitosan, carageenan, polyacrylates, polyvinylalcohol, polyvinylpyrrolidone and silicones.

Transdermal administration of bromocriptine.
Degim IT, Acarturk F, Erdogan D, Demirez Lortlar N.
Gazi University, Faculty of Pharmacy, Department of Pharmaceutical Technology, Ankara, Turkey.
Bromocriptine (BRC) has been mainly used for the inhibition of lactation, treatment of menstrual disorders, Parkinson disease, breast tumours, infertility and brain tumours as a dopamine agonist in clinics. But current BRC formulations have some side effects and bioavailability problems because of hepatic first pass effect. Transdermal application could be an alternative route to overcome all these problem and penetration properties of BRC has not been studied yet. Therefore, it was aimed to investigate the effectiveness of transdermal formulation of BRC which is applicable to the skin. For this purpose, a number of BRC gel formulations (Carbopol-934 (C-934), chitosan (CH) and Gantrez-SP215 (G-SP215) were developed and the effectiveness and bioavailability of the formulations were compared in rabbits. Commercial BRC tablets (Parlodel) were also given to rabbits orally and plasma levels were compared. The effects of two different penetration enhancers, sodium taurocholate (ST) and ethoxydiglycol-Transcutol) (TR) on the BRC penetration were also investigated. The skin samples from the dorsal part of the rabbit were removed after CH gel application and investigated under electron microscope to understand the effects of the gel on the penetration and the possible penetration mechanisms through skin were also discussed. In conclusion, CH gel formulation was found to be the best formulation and comparable blood BRC concentrations were obtained when applied to the rabbit skin. Higher blood levels were obtained with the use of CH. The main penetration process was found to be through transcellular route but some other mechanisms were also found to be incorporated, after microscopic investigation. CH gel was found to be a useful carrier for BRC administration through dermal route and the penetration enhancing effect and the mechanism of CH gel were first established in this study. It was concluded that transdermal delivery of BRC may be a very promising alternative route to the oral route for the treatment

Chitosan: a unique polysaccharide for drug delivery.
Felt O, Buri P, Gurny R.
School of Pharmacy, University of Geneva, Switzerland.
The aim of this review is to give an insight into the many potential applications of chitosan as a pharmaceutical drug carrier. The first part of this review concerns the principal uses of chitosan as an excipient in oral formulations (particularly as a direct tableting agent) and as a vehicle for parenteral drug delivery devices. The use of chitosan to manufacture sustained-release systems deliverable by other routes (nasal, ophthalmic, transdermal, and implantable devices) is discussed in the second part.

I wonder if the folks at Legal Gear know this Still, I was under the belief that chitosan doesn't really do much. Am I wrong?

 

[dito]

It's a shame that the supplement forum has been inundated with so many LipoBurn logs. While I certainly have nothing against the guys posting, and it is always great to get solid feedback on a new product, it really hit me just now how commercial a ton of logs for one product looks. Interpret that as you want.

That's kind of my fault. I should of just had one feedback thread in other boards. Sorry

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

That's kind of my fault. I should of just had one feedback thread in other boards. Sorry

On BB.com it will be much less noticeable considering the volume of posts generated daily dealing with "when to take creatine", "cell-tech vs. cell-tech: atkin's version", and "15 year old sister wants to use M1t". It just looked a little unbalanced here where new threads don't come around too often. I think that a single thread is ideal anyway as it enables those interested to follow everyone's progress without needing to navigate through 7 separate threads.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

LipoBurn updates:

Measurements
Day 0: Waist = 30.125 inches
Day 6: Waist = 30.000 inches

No change in waist circumference or bodyweight (168), although I did accidently take my waist measurement this morning after consuming a good sixth of a gallon of chocolate Carb Countdown (as opposed to measured directly after the night's fast). Weight was at taken at the usual time after lifting.

As an interesting aside, I am experience the worst post-legs day paralysis in recent memory. I finally got 200 for 20+ on squats (nailed 23 of them, slightly below parallel). It's still far below where I would like to be, but it was a goal that I reached and felt that it was worth mentioning.

I will make an effort to take pictures tomorrow morning before heading down to VT for my senior year.