5-AT and/or 7-OH

[InChains]

I've been reading alot about Suppress-C and Lean Xtreme lately, particularly these two ingredients, and it's said that they're not non-hormonal and "natural", don't require PCT, etc. I wanted to get more feedback on this, just to be sure. I'm 21, never taken anything even close to being hormonal. From what I understand, they are derivatives of DHEA, yet do not convert to Testosterone or estrogen like DHEA does. I wondered if they had any negative hormonal effects whatsoever--besides inhibition of cortisol--including shutdown of anything or binding of androgen receptors. And are they safe for cycling at 21, meaning, they won't throw my hormones out of wack or anything?...

 

[nattydisaster]

They are all fine. Erase is another one of these derivatives, except it has the ability to lower estrogen

 

[MAxximal]

Reduce XT

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/reduce-xt-90-caps.html

 

[heavylifter33]

If your goal is to reduce fat your most important factor is diet. Lean Xtreme (in my opinion) is fine for 18+, Reduce XT is another product to look at. Lean Xtreme is a staple for me, i have 6 bottles sitting on my desk at all times, and i recommend it to most people. It does have thyroid interaction, but as far as T/E interaction no. I'm not really a fan of DHEA derivatives, i think the estrogen conversion is high unless you add compounds to increase T conversion ratio (like M1-D), so i'd instead look at cort control products or something like Triazole. EC is a good idea at all ages, cheap and effective.

 

[jbryand101b]

supress c is really cheap right now on the planet, wish I had money, i'd buy it & some formestane.

supress c + ephedrine, yea, that'd be nice.

 

[InChains]

They are all fine. Erase is another one of these derivatives, except it has the ability to lower estrogen

Suppress-C seems to work according to the reviews I've seen, but it contains the beta derivative of Androstenetriol. Isn't it the A-Androstenetriol that's supposed to reduce the cortisol by using up that enzyme? I read that the B form does something else. Reduce XT has both forms. I wanna try Suppress because I prefer the transdermals but this doesn't make sense to me.

If your goal is to reduce fat your most important factor is diet. Lean Xtreme (in my opinion) is fine for 18+, Reduce XT is another product to look at. Lean Xtreme is a staple for me, i have 6 bottles sitting on my desk at all times, and i recommend it to most people. It does have thyroid interaction, but as far as T/E interaction no. I'm not really a fan of DHEA derivatives, i think the estrogen conversion is high unless you add compounds to increase T conversion ratio (like M1-D), so i'd instead look at cort control products or something like Triazole. EC is a good idea at all ages, cheap and effective.

It's not for fat reduction at all. It's primarily for mood. I don't actually want Lean Xtreme, I'm only interested in the two main ingredients. I would consider it if it didn't have all that other stuff in there. I can't handle supplements with significant levels of choline in them for more than a few days. That's why I can't take phosphatidylserine and looking for a good alternative.

But I don't really understand your post. You say Lean Xtreme has no T/E interaction, but you say estrogen conversion with DHEA derivatives is high. How is this if LX has two DHEA derivatives? I thought only DHEA converted into estrogen, but its derivatives didn't?

 

[Robboe]

Phosphatidylserine has no choline. I don't follow what you are getting at here.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

If your goal is to reduce fat your most important factor is diet. Lean Xtreme (in my opinion) is fine for 18+, Reduce XT is another product to look at. Lean Xtreme is a staple for me, i have 6 bottles sitting on my desk at all times, and i recommend it to most people. It does have thyroid interaction, but as far as T/E interaction no. I'm not really a fan of DHEA derivatives, i think the estrogen conversion is high unless you add compounds to increase T conversion ratio (like M1-D), so i'd instead look at cort control products or something like Triazole. EC is a good idea at all ages, cheap and effective.

so you run lean xtreme all the time without cycling off? How many do you dose a day? 3x?

 

[heavylifter33]

so you run lean xtreme all the time without cycling off? How many do you dose a day? 3x?

No, i said i have it on hand at all times, not that i take it all the time. If you wanted to do an extended run and minimized the joint issues i'd take it at 2 caps a day.

Cortisol, like estrogen, is something you want to "control" and not "eliminate." Also any product that has thyroid interaction i would be very careful with, specifically the length of time on.

OP, in response to your DHEA topic... I simply went over my views of DHEA, Lean Xtreme is not a DHEA product. LX includes metabolites of DHEA, but the two isomers do not convert to estrogens or androgens. This is quite different than say LGs M1-D. Our product uses metabolites of DHEA to convert to T and E. This is the quick response to your DHEA question, Robboe can add something to clarify if i screwed it up.

 

[whitesox23]

Go with Lean Xtreme. 5AT is much more effective at lowering cortisol than 7-0H. 7-0h works by inhibiting cortisone -> cortisol and 5-AT works via cytokines

 

[InChains]

Phosphatidylserine has no choline. I don't follow what you are getting at here.

I thought it occurred naturally in the form of phosphatidylcholine within the same soybean phospholipids they derive PS from. PS products as far as i know are like plant extracts in that the PS is "standardized" to a cartain amount. they still contains the other constituents of the soy, including phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine. I could be wrong

No, i said i have it on hand at all times, not that i take it all the time. If you wanted to do an extended run and minimized the joint issues i'd take it at 2 caps a day.

Cortisol, like estrogen, is something you want to "control" and not "eliminate." Also any product that has thyroid interaction i would be very careful with, specifically the length of time on.

OP, in response to your DHEA topic... I simply went over my views of DHEA, Lean Xtreme is not a DHEA product. LX includes metabolites of DHEA, but the two isomers do not convert to estrogens or androgens. This is quite different than say LGs M1-D. Our product uses metabolites of DHEA to convert to T and E. This is the quick response to your DHEA question, Robboe can add something to clarify if i screwed it up.

Oh I thought you were talking about LX when you said it converts to estrogens. I don't know what M1-D is.


And by the way i also wanna ask you guys, what exactly is the verdict with the Ai's and puffy/itchy nipples thing I've been reading about now and again? I ask because i may end up trying erase as well, and i don't want to set myself up for the risk of "gyno". What exactly would you guys say is the safest, most risk-free AI you can use alone (or with a non-hormonal cortisol agent) at a younger age? I know formestane converts to a testosterone metabolite. Maybe 6-OXO is what i was thinking, but this stuff doesn't seem to be around. I also read on ergo-log about letrozole once a week at 2.5 mg or twice a wee k at 1mg. I'm curious about trying one of these with Supress C or just doing Erase. Arimidex also seems pretty mild compared to others...start with a mere .25 mgs a day? What you guys think?

 

[MAxximal]

Go with Lean Xtreme. 5AT is much more effective at lowering cortisol than 7-0H. 7-0h works by inhibiting cortisone -> cortisol and 5-AT works via cytokines

FYI: LX has both in it

5-AT (7-hydroxy 17B-dihydro dehydroepiandrosterone a.ka. 5-Etioallocholen-3b,7b,17b-Triol)
7-OH (7-hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone a.k.a 3b,7-Dihydroxy-5-Etioallocholen-17-One)

 

[whitesox23]

FYI: LX has both in it

5-AT (7-hydroxy 17B-dihydro dehydroepiandrosterone a.ka. 5-Etioallocholen-3b,7b,17b-Triol)
7-OH (7-hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone a.k.a 3b,7-Dihydroxy-5-Etioallocholen-17-One)

Which is why I recommended LX over alternatives not sure of any other 5AT products available, plus LX has other gewdies like forskolin

 

[Robboe]

I thought it occurred naturally in the form of phosphatidylcholine within the same soybean phospholipids they derive PS from. PS products as far as i know are like plant extracts in that the PS is "standardized" to a cartain amount. they still contains the other constituents of the soy, including phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine. I could be wrong

Ahh, I gotcha.

 

[MAxximal]

Which is why I recommended LX over alternatives not sure of any other 5AT products available, plus LX has other gewdies like forskolin

Did you understand correctly? both are the same.

and yes has other....s

Androstenetriol--This steroid metabolite, which is chemically known as Delta 5-androstene-3b,7b,17b,triol, was shown in an abstract presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols to counteract the immunological effects of glucocorticoids.

Reference

Norbiato, et al., In Vitro Immunomodulatory Effects of Delta 5-Androstene-3b,7b,17b Triol (AET) in Hypercortisolemic Patients (Las Vegas, NV: Conference on Cortisol and Anti-Cortisols, 1997)

 

[InChains]

I don't like the PS in LX. I'll try to run S-C then Reduce XT with an AI to see which is better. As for the AI, I'm still not sure, I'll make another thread.