Check out my new night time protein

[djbombsquad]

Ingredients:*Custom Formula - Night:
20% IPI Protein Isolate,
30% Tri-Fx (Whey Fraction),
40% Monster V Protein,
5% Glutamine Peptides,
5% Leunox Leucine Peptides,
Additive: None
Flavor: Vanilla
Sweetener: Stevia

What do you think? Comments are welcome. IPI protein also seems like a slow acting protein and the gh benefits of tri-fx than monster v for very slow releasing protein. Zero carbs zero fat.

 

[kingjameskjf]

So you're making a "night" protein blend with the understand of wanting a slower release of aminos throughout the night as you sleep and are in a catabolic state...so I think you should include a good amount of micellar casein which has been shown to have a prolonged release.

 

[heavylifter33]

I don't understand the point. You don't go catabolic over night, and if you are really worried about it why not buy XF 2.0 which tastes ridiculously good and is a blend. Once you've hit your protein macro for the day you're good.

 

[kingjameskjf]

I don't understand the point. You don't go catabolic over night, and if you are really worried about it why not buy XF 2.0 which tastes ridiculously good and is a blend. Once you've hit your protein macro for the day you're good.

lol what!? Of course you go catabolic over night! Your body is in a fasted state for a period of several hours with no added aminos. This is exactly why pros like Layne take BCAA's during the middle of the night when they wake up.

 

[jdrannin1]

Ingredients:*Custom Formula - Night:
20% IPI Protein Isolate,
30% Tri-Fx (Whey Fraction),
40% Monster V Protein,
5% Glutamine Peptides,
5% Leunox Leucine Peptides,
Additive: None
Flavor: Vanilla
Sweetener: Stevia

What do you think? Comments are welcome. IPI protein also seems like a slow acting protein and the gh benefits of tri-fx than monster v for very slow releasing protein. Zero carbs zero fat.

Use miscellar casein or whole food. Whey pre-bed isn't what you're looking for if you want something "time-released".

Whole eggs, beef (any kind), cheese, etc...

 

[kingjameskjf]

Use miscellar casein or whole food. Whey pre-bed isn't what you're looking for if you want something "time-released".

Whole eggs, beef (any kind), cheese, etc...

Agreed with all of these choices, they fill you up and work great.

 

[Powercage]

I don't understand the point. You don't go catabolic over night, and if you are really worried about it why not buy XF 2.0 which tastes ridiculously good and is a blend. Once you've hit your protein macro for the day you're good.

This

 

[kingjameskjf]

This

Respectfully disagree. At night your body does not intake any additional calories, however, your body still uses calories to maintain its functions, pumping blood, regulating hormones and negative feedback loops, muscle tonic contractions, filtering wastes, respiration and gas exchange, cellular apoptosis and regeneration, ect. So your body still uses its resources and still requires energy to function. After several hours, the exogenous caloric intake supply has been used (depending of course on the last time of food consumption and sources) and now the body must turn to it's stored supply to maintain these functions. It is much easier for the body to break down and use protein to supply it with the needed amino acids. When this happens it is called catabolism which is muscle wasting because that's where the body gets the amino acids from. Another contributing factor is the rise in cortisol hormone levels throughout the night in a prolonged fasted state which contribute to catabolism.

 

[Powercage]

Respectfully disagree. At night your body does not intake any additional calories, however, your body still uses calories to maintain its functions, pumping blood, regulating hormones and negative feedback loops, muscle tonic contractions, filtering wastes, respiration and gas exchange, cellular apoptosis and regeneration, ect. So your body still uses its resources and still requires energy to function. After several hours, the exogenous caloric intake supply has been used (depending of course on the last time of food consumption and sources) and now the body must turn to it's stored supply to maintain these functions. It is much easier for the body to break down and use protein to supply it with the needed amino acids. When this happens it is called catabolism which is muscle wasting because that's where the body gets the amino acids from. Another contributing factor is the rise in cortisol hormone levels throughout the night in a prolonged fasted state which contribute to catabolism.

Check into some of Alan Aragon's work. One of the things he has been finding is that it takes longer to go catabolic than previously thought.

What was once believed to be only a few hours is more likely on the timeframe of a day or two.

If you are at a nutrient deficit for a day or more it could become an issue, but not over the period of a night (as far as muscle catabolism is concerned)


(*this is assuming macros were achieved during the day)

Shoot him a PM over on bodyspace, he's really nice about talking over that kind of stuff (or talk to your fellow SNS rep MrCooper...I know they talk quite a bit about those things)

 

[kingjameskjf]

Check into some of Alan Aragon's work. One of the things he has been finding is that it takes longer to go catabolic than previously thought.

What was once believed to be only a few hours is more likely on the timeframe of a day or two.

If you are at a nutrient deficit for a day or more it could become an issue, but not over the period of a night (as far as muscle catabolism is concerned)


(*this is assuming macros were achieved during the day)

Shoot him a PM over on bodyspace, he's really nice about talking over that kind of stuff (or talk to your fellow SNS rep MrCooper...I know they talk quite a bit about those things)

I actually have talked to him previously, but on a different subject. He is very knowlegable but I don't always agree with everything he says (which doesn't necessarily mean anything either! :laugh: Basically, I get my understanding from almost three years of studying A&P. Now, this is not to say that I am smarter then anyone by any means, especially not Alan, I just say it to show that I have a basic understanding and not just throwing out some wild assumption that I came up with! That and the combination of what I have seen work for me gave me this understanding. I will definitely look up more of his work because I am not above learning. However, I would like to point out the caloric deficit part that you brought up. When I diet down, I'm in a continual state of a caloric deficit (hence the effectiveness of actually cutting) so the need for BCAA's is greater for me then when I'm in a consistent state of a caloric surplus.

 

[djbombsquad]

http://proteinfactory.com/articlespf/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=169:interview-with-dr-weaver-creator-of-monster-v-protein&catid=21:interesting-people
Info on monster v Protein.

 

[Powercage]

I actually have talked to him previously, but on a different subject. He is very knowlegable but I don't always agree with everything he says (which doesn't necessarily mean anything either! :laugh: Basically, I get my understanding from almost three years of studying A&P. Now, this is not to say that I am smarter then anyone by any means, especially not Alan, I just say it to show that I have a basic understanding and not just throwing out some wild assumption that I came up with! That and the combination of what I have seen work for me gave me this understanding. I will definitely look up more of his work because I am not above learning. However, I would like to point out the caloric deficit part that you brought up. When I diet down, I'm in a continual state of a caloric deficit (hence the effectiveness of actually cutting) so the need for BCAA's is greater for me then when I'm in a consistent state of a caloric surplus.

Honestly, if it has worked for you in the past. Do what works. It might be good to talk with him, so at least you could bounce ideas off each other. If you disagree you disagree, but at least you have heard that side of the argument

Now when you are on a caloric deficit. I would consider supplementing with a BCAA product as more important than needing casein pre bed (assuming you hit your deficit macros during the day). It's all about fitting those macros basically. Other things that would work just as well are using a blended protein at night to hit those macros (which is far more versatile than buying a straight casein) or even just drinking milk

I do agree with you tho, people should consider something to help add in BCAAs on a cut (such as an intraworkout BCAA supplement).

 

[kingjameskjf]

Honestly, if it has worked for you in the past. Do what works. It might be good to talk with him, so at least you could bounce ideas off each other. If you disagree you disagree, but at least you have heard that side of the argument

Now when you are on a caloric deficit. I would consider supplementing with a BCAA product as more important than needing casein pre bed (assuming you hit your deficit macros during the day). It's all about fitting those macros basically. Other things that would work just as well are using a blended protein at night to hit those macros (which is far more versatile than buying a straight casein) or even just drinking milk

I do agree with you tho, people should consider something to help add in BCAAs on a cut.

Definitely agree that talking to him could only induce great learning! Now as for the caloric deficit and the bcaa's and in regards to casein, this is what I do. I agree that a mix is more versatile then just a straight casein shake which is why I take it as follow: 1 scoop of whey with 1 scoop of misceller casein in water. I do water to cut down on my night carb intake (per Layne's contest prep diet guide). This shake is always accounted for in my daily macros and caloric intake. Some nights I'll have a steak and that is used in place of the casein shake, but cals are always adjusted accordingly. I do this for the slow amino release for more steady levels of aminos available for my body in the blood. When I wake up in the middle of the night I take a already prepared BCAA's drink (also what I got from Layne). This, as I already know you know through our prior conversations, causes the muscle protein synthesis response. In a caloric deficit and preparing for a show, conserving muscle mass while dropping body fat is critical for success. Just a quick explanation of my methods!

 

[Powercage]

Definitely agree that talking to him could only induce great learning! Now as for the caloric deficit and the bcaa's and in regards to casein, this is what I do. I agree that a mix is more versatile then just a straight casein shake which is why I take it as follow: 1 scoop of whey with 1 scoop of misceller casein in water. I do water to cut down on my night carb intake (per Layne's contest prep diet guide). This shake is always accounted for in my daily macros and caloric intake. Some nights I'll have a steak and that is used in place of the casein shake, but cals are always adjusted accordingly. I do this for the slow amino release for more steady levels of aminos available for my body in the blood. When I wake up in the middle of the night I take a already prepared BCAA's drink (also what I got from Layne). This, as I already know you know through our prior conversations, causes the muscle protein synthesis response. In a caloric deficit and preparing for a show, conserving muscle mass while dropping body fat is critical for success. Just a quick explanation of my methods!

Because you are taking this into account in your macros, I could see this working just fine. Im glad you didnt go straight casein, but rather made yourself a blend....I think that's a wise choice (you may be getting a better price per serving with it then buying your own blend depending on what you are paying for each constituent)

 

[kingjameskjf]

http://proteinfactory.com/articlespf/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=169:interview-with-dr-weaver-creator-of-monster-v-protein&catid=21:interesting-people
Info on monster v Protein.

Sorry, I probably should have looked it up instead of assuming it was just another whey! However, it's good to look at it critically since the interview and explanation was giving by the guy who created it and was for marketing purposes. I don't say that to discredit him or his product (as I haven't looked into either honestly), but to induce objectiveness.

 

[kingjameskjf]

Because you are taking this into account in your macros, I could see this working just fine. Im glad you didnt go straight casein, but rather made yourself a blend....I think that's a wise choice

Thanks, I track everything throughout the day (thanks you droid apps!) and adjust accordingly as needed to hit my goals.

 

[mr.cooper69]

If I wasnt on my phone, knowledge would be dropping right now .

 

[heavylifter33]

I don't have time to get in to all the citation postings, but i pose a question:

If your protein requirements for the day have been met, why would you need to be supplementing BCAAs? To extrapolate a bit, i am assuming you're not on a hypocaloric diet, and aren't eating 1 meal in the morning.

 

[purebred]

There seems to be a lot of over-analyzing regarding catabolism at night time. Just eat some cottage cheese and peanut butter 1 hour before bed and sleep. Sleep is more important than waking up in the middle of the night to sip amino acids you can be getting from the food you eat during your waking hours anyway.

That being said, how much time can a "time-released protein" really last. 3 hours? 4 hours max? I'm 99.9% sure you're sleeping more than that a night anyhow.

Time-released protein is merely slower digesting protein. You know, the kind you can find in food like cottage cheese? Yeah. Food is where supplements come from. Let's not forget the hierarchy process involved here.

 

[heavylifter33]

There seems to be a lot of over-analyzing regarding catabolism at night time. Just eat some cottage cheese and peanut butter 1 hour before bed and sleep. Sleep is more important than waking up in the middle of the night to sip amino acids you can be getting from the food you eat during your waking hours anyway.

That being said, how much time can a "time-released protein" really last. 3 hours? 4 hours max? I'm 99.9% sure you're sleeping more than that a night anyhow.

Time-released protein is merely slower digesting protein. You know, the kind you can find in food like cottage cheese? Yeah. Food is where supplements come from. Let's not forget the hierarchy process involved here.

Recent studies cite roughly 7 hours or so for complete casein breakdown. But let's not forget that there are many factors that play in to this number. I do agree that casein in nature is beneficial as it will maintain a positive nitrogen balance longer than whey. But i repeat, you will not be going catabolic over a night's sleep, even during a caloric deficit. Despite being in a deficit, you're still in a "fed" state, thus you won't be going catabolic.

 

[JayV]

lol what!? Of course you go catabolic over night! Your body is in a fasted state for a period of several hours with no added aminos. This is exactly why pros like Layne take BCAA's during the middle of the night when they wake up.

I like this. It's soooo 1990's.
Thanks for the logic, bro.

 

[kingjameskjf]

It seems like a few people didn't read all of what I said or misconstrued it. I was only referring to a constant state of caloric deficit over an extended period of time. Regardless, I have been researching it and starting looking into the Lean Gains/IF diet. I have decided to put it to the test myself and see if there is any appreciable difference, in either direction. I'm not afraid to learn and expand my knowledge as I'm always looking for ways to improve my results. I won't clutter up this thread with any more ramblings but will start tomorrow and log it in my ongoing precontest log.

 

[southpaw23]

I use Mic Casein with a scoop of FiberTeq (VPX) 7 grams of fiber to slow digestion.

 

[djbombsquad]

Did any one read about the monster v? Plus I'm getting different time releases from the tri and ips. Also I will be putting cottage cheese as my base.

 

[bludevil]

I'd recommend cottage cheese or greek yogurt mixed with natty pb like purebred mentioned. More filling and slow releasing protien.

 

[djbombsquad]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ingredients:*Custom Formula - Night:
20% IPI Protein Isolate,
30% Tri-Fx (Whey Fraction),
40% Monster V Protein,
5% Glutamine Peptides,
5% Leunox Leucine Peptides,
Additive: None
Flavor: Vanilla
Sweetener: Stevia

one cup of cottage cheese and mix it up and eat 30 min before bed.

 

[GeekPoop]

I'll stick to hamburger and natural pb pre bed

 

[mr.cooper69]

Casein is any form is absolutely unnecessary before bed, and will not optimize body composition if your macros are consistent. Acute catabolism is meaningless in the face of overall energy balance for the day.

 

[Powercage]

Casein is any form is absolutely unnecessary before bed, and will not optimize body composition if your macros are consistent. Acute catabolism is meaningless in the face of overall energy balance for the day.

Take your science elsewhere

 

[heavylifter33]

It seems like a few people didn't read all of what I said or misconstrued it. I was only referring to a constant state of caloric deficit over an extended period of time. Regardless, I have been researching it and starting looking into the Lean Gains/IF diet. I have decided to put it to the test myself and see if there is any appreciable difference, in either direction. I'm not afraid to learn and expand my knowledge as I'm always looking for ways to improve my results. I won't clutter up this thread with any more ramblings but will start tomorrow and log it in my ongoing precontest log.

Despite being in a constant caloric deficit you will still be in a "fed" state.

 

[mr.cooper69]

@kingjames: Only do IF as a matter of personal preference. The body composition changes will be identical to any other diet at the same calories/macros.

 

[OrganicShadow]

I have to side with KingJames on this one. In my own experience, 6-7 hours of sleep is optimal for me. Anything longer causes too much time fasting and I become lethargic and dehydrated. Often times, during contest prep I end up waking mid-sleep to eat again because im moving nutrients faster than usual. Sleep pattern/nutrition is on my priority list to improve.

If I wasnt on my phone, knowledge would be dropping right now .

Awaiting the epiphany.


Where did you find this concoction anyway? Trueprotein.com?

 

[purebred]

I believe the concoction is from TP, Organic. What happened to TrueProtein on here, anyway?

 

[djbombsquad]

PF.

 

[Powercage]

Casein is any form is absolutely unnecessary before bed, and will not optimize body composition if your macros are consistent. Acute catabolism is meaningless in the face of overall energy balance for the day.

Awaiting the epiphany.

Read above. Casein before bed is unneeded to prevent catabolism. Like has been said multiple times in the thread, hitting your macros during the day is all that is needed. The whole nutrient timing idea is outdated

 

[djbombsquad]

I just like the cobanation of different sources of protein. I will have my regular meals and shakes thew out the day.

 

[purebred]

PF.

What does this mean?

 

[Powercage]

I just like the cobanation of different sources of protein. I will have my regular meals and shakes thew out the day.

There is some evidence that a blended protein may be more worthwhile post workout than straight whey.

 

[bboyflash]

Leangains.com

 

[djbombsquad]

I got it from the factory where make protein. 3 different sources of protein including peptides from glutamine and leucine.

 

[T50]

The Leucine Peptides and Monster V protein seem interesting. Really wish the L-Peptides weren't soo expensive.

 

[purebred]

There is some evidence that a blended protein may be more worthwhile post workout than straight whey.

There's also evidence soy protein and whey produce equal results PWO as well. I personally like to mix the two.

 

[newguy470]

nicee

 

[mr.cooper69]

I have to side with KingJames on this one. In my own experience, 6-7 hours of sleep is optimal for me. Anything longer causes too much time fasting and I become lethargic and dehydrated. Often times, during contest prep I end up waking mid-sleep to eat again because im moving nutrients faster than usual. Sleep pattern/nutrition is on my priority list to improve.



Awaiting the epiphany.


Where did you find this concoction anyway? Trueprotein.com?

Unfortunately, my computer will not be fixed until Tuesday (I hope), but the research is there if you look in the right places. An understanding of biochem and physiology will help as well.

 

[djbombsquad]

There's also evidence soy protein and whey produce equal results PWO as well. I personally like to mix the two.

I use soy isolation in the morning with whole milk.

 

[heavylifter33]

There is some evidence that a blended protein may be more worthwhile post workout than straight whey.

The more i read in to the subject, the more i like XF's blend. The addition of casein to improve nitrogen balance for a longer period of time gets me all hot and bothered. I'll never again buy straight casein though.

 

[purebred]

The more i read in to the subject, the more i like XF's blend. The addition of casein to improve nitrogen balance for a longer period of time gets me all hot and bothered. I'll never again buy straight casein though.

It's never a good idea to stick to one type of protein. Different proteins contain different amino acid profiles. If you're able to attain different protein powders (e.g. whey and casein) then it'd be in your best interest to mix 'em to get the best of both worlds. Good thinking!

 

[djbombsquad]

This is why I made this mix just for the night. During the day I take gear with my meals and than my post workout shake but the rest I try to get from food.

 

[Powercage]

It's never a good idea to stick to one type of protein. Different proteins contain different amino acid profiles. If you're able to attain different protein powders (e.g. whey and casein) then it'd be in your best interest to mix 'em to get the best of both worlds. Good thinking!

Protein source variety lends moreso to real food for micronutrients (as well as AA profiles).

I wouldnt bother with soy protein

 

[purebred]

I wouldnt bother with soy protein

There's a lot of misconception on soy out there where studies have been distorted and taken out of context. No one ever seems to differentiate between non-GMO or GMO soy; fermented or unfermented. It's not as clear-cut as it is made out to seem. It's not a superfood for no reason. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though! I respect it.