The End-All Fish Oil Dosage Thread
- 05-26-2011, 09:18 PM
The End-All Fish Oil Dosage Thread
I am currently searching for research divulging specific information about EPA/DHA dosages for maintaining/enhancing cognitive function in healthy humans as well as any other data I can come across that sheds light on proper daily EPA/DHA consumption amounts. I have been unsuccessful in coming up with any concise information, hence, me reaching out to the community in hopes that someone already has research available that they may be able to provide us with. I know we have a stable, knowledgeable group of folks here who can collectively shed light on this matter and discuss different dosing regimens and include scientific literature concerning this topic.
For the record, and so there is no future uncertainty regarding the purpose of this thread, this is not an opinion thread. This is a "present the research data that influenced you to proceed with a specific regimen" thread. I have yet to find a sound reply as to how much EPA/DHA to dose. Everyone has an opinion but no studies are cited and no research is posted. AM member NO HYPE posted studies substantiating a dose such as 6-8g fish oil (however, no mention of EPA/DHA dosage) possibly being a bit excessive.
So, how much EPA/DHA from fish oil should be supplemented by healthy adults to reap its benefits (maintaining/enhancing cognitive function, joint health, heart health, etc.)? Any data we can come up with discussing EPA/DHA doses will be helpful to us. Therefore, posting studies is highly encouraged. Posting opinions (e.g. "I suggest...") are not unless there is cited research to substantiate it.
Last edited by purebred; 05-30-2011 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Clarification for our members
- 05-26-2011, 10:32 PM
~2g EPA + DHA daily spread over at least 2 doses
You can lower your dosage if you have a large fish meal to 1g the opposite time of dayControlled Labs Warder
Powercage [at] controlledlabs.com
- 05-27-2011, 07:28 AM
05-27-2011, 07:32 AM
6 total daily caps of ULTRA-potency Fish oil caps (made by NOW Foods) over 3 diff doses.
I think Fish Oil is one of THE most important nutrients you can take. Curcumin being a close second. I am still on the fence if I believe Resveratrol is even bioavailable/absorbable as an oral supp. Sad but true.
05-27-2011, 07:41 AM
Biomed Pharmacother. 2002 Oct;56(8):365-79.
The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids.
The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009, USA. firstname.lastname@example.org
Several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of approximately 1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1-16.7/1. Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a low omega-6/omega-3 ratio) exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration. This is consistent with the fact that chronic diseases are multigenic and multifactorial. Therefore, it is quite possible that the therapeutic dose of omega-3 fatty acids will depend on the degree of severity of disease resulting from the genetic predisposition. A lower ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids is more desirable in reducing the risk of many of the chronic diseases of high prevalence in Western societies, as well as in the developing countries, that are being exported to the rest of the world.
There are many factors that would influence individual recommendations, diet being the glaringly obvious one. If you wanted to take guesswork out of it then you can have your fatty acid profile tested.
A colleague of mine megadosed fish oil for fat loss and when he had his fatty acid profile tested he had gone into an immunosuppressive state by throwing off his omega 3 : 6 ratio to severe omega 3 dominance and had to supplement with GLA to correct his EPA : DGLA ratio which was heavily in favour of EPA.
05-27-2011, 07:57 AM
05-27-2011, 08:33 AM
Fish oil is hard to get too much of IMO. I personally believe it to be the single best supplement one can take. In studies where they have found "therapeutic benefit", in that they actually act like medicine and treat certain medical conditions they used something like 12-15 grams of fish oil per day and found it worked just as well or better than the most commonly prescribed pharmaceuticals like NSAIDS. (Arthritis). Most people probably don't need anywhere near that much for general health maintenance though. Most experts (Dr. Oz, Dr. Weil) will say to consume about 1000 mg of EPA/DHA combined per day. Don't confused that with 1000 mg of fish oil though (1 cap). My fish oil contains 180EPA and 120DHA (common dose). I eat 6 caps per day (sometimes 4 if I am eating salmon that day or something). That means at 6 caps I get 1080 EPA and 720 DHA. I have arthristis, heart disease is in my family and I have take steroids, so I like to bump it up over average. People are a bit overly concerned with taking too much sometimes I think because it comes in a pill, but think about it, it's just purified fish fat. A Big Mac has 10g of saturated fat. Perspective! Make sure you get pharmaceutical grade molecularly distilled fish oil and not the "health food store", especially if you'd rather go the high side of the dosage like me. Our oceans are increasing being polluted with mercury, PCB's etc... and that is NOT something you want much of in your body. I agree with BDCC that there is no "right amount" but that it depends on your medical/health situation, diet, genetics, etc...When i doubt, take what the bottle says you should take and ask your doctor if you could take more safely.
05-27-2011, 08:35 AM
~2g EPA and ~1.5+g of DHA. This usually ends up being 10-15 fish oil caps, or 5 triple strength fish oil caps.
05-27-2011, 08:54 AM
I am in Indonesia rightnow, in Jakarta, and the water here near the port is DISGUSTING.
It is even recommended by our doc we do not eat the seafood here, and I love seafood.
So, yes buy the good stuff like Dice mentioned. Its what i buy. This stuff is amazing for you.
05-27-2011, 11:57 AM
The only post I've seen is regarding the omega 6/omega 3 ratio importance. Everything else is just opinion and hear-say.
I don't buy into the whole mega-dosing thing. High doses have only been studied on folks who have a health condition--NOT healthy humans. Therefore, everything is speculation and anecdotal.
05-27-2011, 12:03 PM
Its not heresay, its real human experience. The bodybuilding community doesnt have studies for everything. we rely on our own education, and trial and error of each other using the products and speaking about it. Word of mouth from our educated minds and the experience we have using and reading the literature out there is what you are going to get. I think youre being a bit picky. Then dont mega dose it. Take less. see what happens.
05-27-2011, 12:11 PM
The closer your omega 6 to 3 is the better. If you eat non organic meat thats higher in omega 6 then you would need more fish oil. That's just how I see it.
As for pharmaceutical quality fish oil, it's pretty much the same as a high quality OTC fish oil.
05-27-2011, 04:29 PM
Thank you for your feedback. However, the fact remains. It'd be ridiculous to believe that anyone is going to do anything just because a fella sitting behind the computer who's "experienced", sitting halfway across the country, says so.
Experience < Research
Experience is putting your hand on the hot stove to know it's not a good idea. Research is peering into other's experiences to see whether or not it is a good idea to put your hand on the stove.
The research is clearly a better route but I digress.
05-27-2011, 07:17 PM
i was taking 4 caps a day, nature made brand. EPA per cap is 360mg and DHA per cap is 300mg. I think I might only need to take two caps though instead of four. What do you guys think? Sorry I haven't read the whole tread yet as I am eating dinner lol. So yeah is 1,200 EPA and 900 DHA good enough, or should I double it again? Also I can go to the bathroom pretty regularly now, so I'm wondering if I lower the fish oil dose if I won't be able to go as well. I've had bathroom troubles for awhile until I started taking the fish oil.
05-27-2011, 08:40 PM
I take kirkland brand fish oils. Very cheap and cost effective especially when they put it on sale. One bottle has 400 caps. Each 1000mg capsule contains 300mg of EPA and DHA combined. I take 10 caps per day in order to get 3000mg of EPA/DHA. I just spread them out over my meals. Have been doing this for the past 4 years.
05-27-2011, 08:42 PM
05-27-2011, 08:48 PM
05-27-2011, 09:01 PM
05-28-2011, 12:49 AM
05-28-2011, 01:00 AM
I buy BARLEANS. I take 3-6 caps a day. Pharmaceutical grade. The container is black so no light can get in to damage it. You dont want it to spoil, and can even keep it in the fridge. Just dont expose it to heat or light.
05-28-2011, 01:03 AM
No need for more than 4 a day. Third party tested for purity (more than most you will find out there) so you know there are no harmful levels of PCBs.
If your fishoil says tested for purity, make sure it is third party
2 morning, 2 at night covers you for your ~2g EPA + DHA a day
One of the highest EPA/DHA on the market, you can grab for under $20, and you arent pushing 10+ pills a day
Controlled Labs Warder
Powercage [at] controlledlabs.com
05-28-2011, 01:14 AM
05-28-2011, 01:33 AM
I aim for 2.6 to 3 grams of EPA/DHA combined per day. I recall reading somewhere a long time ago about this amount being extremely beneficial for cognitive function (by increasing cell membrane permeability or something like that...). I really don't remember if it was an actual scientific study or not, but I'll try to find the info again.
05-28-2011, 04:01 AM
05-28-2011, 04:03 AM
05-29-2011, 06:26 AM
I agree that you probably don't want/need to mega dose it and, like cholesterol, the ratio is important. Don't reach out for opinions though and then pan everyone as armchair experts when they reply. Fish oil is not hype and there is lots of science out there. Just google it. That said, NA's have no problem getting omega6,in fact we're practically drowning in it. Why people take omega 3/6/9 seems strange to me for this reason too. Also, keep in mind that Eskimos eat TONS of fish fat, a whole lot more than u can fit into a handful of capsules, and they have low rates of heart issues. They may have genetically adapted to this u could argue, but still, a little extra is probably fine as long as u don't mega dose it. 1000-2000 EPA/DHA combined is probably good for most people.
05-29-2011, 07:37 AM
Well...there are varying types of fish oil supplements. Different ratios of epa:dha for different desired outcomes.
Generally, the higher the epa to dha the better it does as an anti-inflammatory. Although there are some Hollistic people and psych people that report it also benefits those with depression. Something odd considering the brain has higher % of dha.
DHA important for cognitive develpment as well as neurological. Great for pregnant woman starting 2nd trimester while fetal nervous system developing, then continuing for brain development. Continued during breastfeeding for cognitive development. They make great dha chews now for children.
3:2 (epa:dha)- pretty much the standard you will find, for overall cardiovascular health.
4:1, 6:1, 9:1 (epa:dha)- for joint health, some rec'd for depression
1:4, 1:5 (epa:dha)- cognitive improvement, pregnancy (2nd trimester on), breastfeeding
Honestly...I tell my patients, family(usually give it to them) and friends to get a generic 3:2. Actually I get a 3:2 for my pregnant girlfriend (300mg epa:200mg dha per cap) I have her taking 3 caps now in her 3rd trimester.
05-30-2011, 06:01 AM
05-30-2011, 08:02 AM
05-30-2011, 08:17 AM
05-30-2011, 09:12 AM
If anyone takes offense to anything I've said, well, you have personal issues you need to work out.
05-30-2011, 11:19 AM
Yes, I read your original post OP, and I answered your question much the same way a couple others did by saying, and I'm paraphrasing, "it depends" and there is no hard and fast answer how much much is the "right amount" of fish oil than there is a right mount of oranges or milk. It's not a drug, it's fish fat. Experts very on the amounts and it varies depending on the purpose. (Arthritis, heart health, brain health, etc...). You didn't mention for which specific purpose you wanted to take fish oil afterall.
I think I gave you a pretty thoughtful detailed response. More detailed than most gave you. The nature of online forums are that they are people offering their opinions and feedback based on their experience. We're not your research assistants. If you are looking for actual scientific studies, Look em up and if you're still unclear, email the scientists that did the study. Here, let me start you off:
05-30-2011, 11:57 AM
In addition, no one has once mentoned anythign about me looking for people to do research for me. If you got that impression, it was your own doing, so blame yourself for thinking it was so.
As for the rest of your point, you're just attempting to engage in a pissing match and I'm fine at the level I'm currently at so you can continue arguing with yourself.
Anyhow, however detailed and articulate, I still saw no empiral evidence posted in any part of your post supporting any dosage recommendation you made. Case-in point.
I, too, am currently searching for research divulging specific information about EPA/DHA dosages for maintaining/enhancing cognitive function in healthy humans as well as any other data I can come across that sheds a bit of light on proper daily EPA/DHA consumption amounts. Like I also mentioned in the original post, I have been unsuccessful in coming up with any concise information, hence, me reaching out to the community in hopes that someone already has research available that they may be able to provide us with.
For the record, and so there is no future uncertainty regarding the purpose of this thread, this is not an opinion thread. This is a "present the research data that influenced you to proceed with a specific fish oil regimen" thread
05-30-2011, 12:14 PM
05-30-2011, 12:18 PM
05-30-2011, 12:31 PM
05-30-2011, 01:14 PM
Thank you for your understanding and just know that I am not against you. I apologize if I upset anyone with my words as it was not my intention to do so. I am doing my best to keep the thread objective and productive so I can see how that may come across as demanding and/or aggressive.
Again, thank you all for your contributions thus far.
05-30-2011, 01:51 PM
I take as much as I need in addition to the copious amounts of salmon and trout that I eat(catch) so that my joints feel good while doing compound movements. I notice a difference if I do not get enough (pain). There are many applications for fish oil out there and there won't be a specific dosage out there for every individual need eg; bipolar,adhd,joint pain etc. for some time. You can only look at what was used in various studies and make your bet with it.
Here is some research done for omega 3's and bi-polar disorder. They are still working out the dosage to this day. http://www.psycheducation.org/depres...ds/Omega-3.htm
05-30-2011, 02:12 PM
Scientists now understand almost all mental disorders root back to various nutritional deficiencies in the ill individuals including vitamins, minerals, amino acids AND (wait for it)....
05-31-2011, 03:46 AM
I love it. I hate pharmaceutical drugs and wish this country would listen to the voice of reason. A lot of things could be fixed by nutritional supplements.
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