HICA

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    HICA


    Any one know much about it.

    http:// www .ergo-log.com/hica.html

    Looks like some supplements containing HICA, a metabolite of the amino acid Leucine, are hitting the supplement market. I hadn’t heard of the compound until people told me it as a highly potent anabolic. A quick google and brought me to Ergo-Log, and after reading the article looks bogus.

    Thoughts?
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    The people who conducted the study, are publishing it to advertise a product seems like.

    Looks like the researchers who performed this study also hold the patent for the ingredient. Most of the time when I am lookint at a nutritional supplement or ingredient being studied, and that study is immediately available for free, seems weird you know.
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    HICA is pretty much useless for athletes trying to improve performance I am assuming. The HICA-supplemented group experienced less muscle soreness, but that amounts to a big who cares, because that decrease in soreness did not improve their subsequent performance. They did, however, gain a massive 400g of muscle on their legs.
    Also then how does this compare to leucine peptides PF carries now.
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    Not sure on this one yet, but I heard the labrada tabs taste good. They look like sweet tarts. Nom
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    http://labrada.com/blog/labrada-news...ica/#more-3085 and muscle tech are using it looks like.
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    Is this HMB 2.0 and if that is the case how does this compare to leucine peptides?
    Leucine we know with layne nortons study 3 grams per hour. Could I do 1.5 grams of this and 1.5 grams leucine? Also the study done on it is soccer not bodybuilding. Meaning could they have used plain leucine and got similar results. ?
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    From what ive been reading, HMB is superior to Leucine and HICA is superior to Leucine as well. The amount of Leucine I would need to match hmb or hica is amazingly high. Money wise ill be trying out HMB and then HICA to see if I can replace my Leucine supplementation. I will still be using Ibcaas though.
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    The study showed no difference than the placebo meaning looks useless right?



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    It looks like that study shows a ~.3-4kg increase in LBM (far right on second graph) for the HICA group as while the placebo group stayed the same, right?
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    At what cost? 30 servings of a low dose is 30 bucks or more. Not sure how much a optimal dose would cost like lucine 3 grams per hour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    At what cost? 30 servings of a low dose is 30 bucks or more. Not sure how much a optimal dose would cost like lucine 3 grams per hour.
    What makes you sure the optimal dose is higher ? Nobody knows what is optimal for it yet.
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    No one knows for sure with HICA but at least with regular leucine 3 grams showed it peaked out and more was not any better.
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    Leucine is a lot cheaper.
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    Looks like new products are using this bogus raw .
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    The labrada HICA cheesy are aweful. Serving size is crazy how many you have to eat, but they are so huge and hard you have to just let them dissolve in your mouth for five or so min, which feels like its giving you cavities, or Damn near crack a tooth trying to chew them. Should have put a little more thought into them to market as chews.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad
    HICA is pretty much useless for athletes trying to improve performance I am assuming.
    Lots of assuming going on here....

    Im not sure which companies are selling HICA as an athletic performance increaser or anabolic agent.

    Leucic acid (HICA) however acts as a great anti-catabolic agent. If you read that study the correct way you will see it was done on football athletes who practiced every day.

    If you've ever played sports that demand a high amout of training 5-7 days a week you would understand the extreme catabolic conditions athletes place themselves in. An incorrect view of that study would say "they only gained a little muscle, this stuff must not be very good" similar to your observations.

    A correct view of the study would say "while putting their bodies in catabolic environments every single day, they managed to retain all of their muscle mass".

    Leucine and it's processes and metabolizes aren't anything that's been researched lightly. It is a difficult process for some to understand how a metabolite of one molecule can act as a signaling agent for similar processes
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Lots of assuming going on here....

    Im not sure which companies are selling HICA as an athletic performance increaser or anabolic agent.

    Leucic acid (HICA) however acts as a great anti-catabolic agent. If you read that study the correct way you will see it was done on football athletes who practiced every day.

    If you've ever played sports that demand a high amout of training 5-7 days a week you would understand the extreme catabolic conditions athletes place themselves in. An incorrect view of that study would say "they only gained a little muscle, this stuff must not be very good" similar to your observations.

    A correct view of the study would say "while putting their bodies in catabolic environments every single day, they managed to retain all of their muscle mass".

    Leucine and it's processes and metabolizes aren't anything that's been researched lightly. It is a difficult process for some to understand how a metabolite of one molecule can act as a signaling agent for similar processes
    Sounds like something I should look into as I ramp up my triathlon training while trying to preserve as much muscle as possible.
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    This study was performed on football (soccer) players who presumably were concerned with getting stronger, faster, etc... so HICA is pretty much completely useless for athletes trying to improve performance. The HICA-supplemented group experienced less muscle soreness, but that amounts to a big who-gives-a-f*ck, because that decrease in soreness did not improve their subsequent performance. They did, however, gain a massive 400g (yes, four hundred grams) of muscle on their legs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Lots of assuming going on here....

    Im not sure which companies are selling HICA as an athletic performance increaser or anabolic agent.

    Leucic acid (HICA) however acts as a great anti-catabolic agent. If you read that study the correct way you will see it was done on football athletes who practiced every day.

    If you've ever played sports that demand a high amout of training 5-7 days a week you would understand the extreme catabolic conditions athletes place themselves in. An incorrect view of that study would say "they only gained a little muscle, this stuff must not be very good" similar to your observations.

    A correct view of the study would say "while putting their bodies in catabolic environments every single day, they managed to retain all of their muscle mass".

    Leucine and it's processes and metabolizes aren't anything that's been researched lightly. It is a difficult process for some to understand how a metabolite of one molecule can act as a signaling agent for similar processes
    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    This study was performed on football (soccer) players who presumably were concerned with getting stronger, faster, etc... so HICA is pretty much completely useless for athletes trying to improve performance. The HICA-supplemented group experienced less muscle soreness, but that amounts to a big who-gives-a-f*ck, because that decrease in soreness did not improve their subsequent performance. They did, however, gain a massive 400g (yes, four hundred grams) of muscle on their legs.
    Not everyone is a bodybuilder, so this is important for many athletes that are trying to maintain/preserve muscle mass while they put their body under a lot of stress, thus creating a catabolic state. As Natty points out, footballers need to maintain their muscle while doing tremendous amounts of cardio training, so this product may be viewed as successful for THEIR goals.

    I primarily do wt training Nov thru Aug, but then I ramp up my endurance training for triathlons. I do not want to lose all of that hard earned muscle so I think HICA may be something for me to try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    This study was performed on football (soccer) players who presumably were concerned with getting stronger, faster, etc... so HICA is pretty much completely useless for athletes trying to improve performance. The HICA-supplemented group experienced less muscle soreness, but that amounts to a big who-gives-a-f*ck, because that decrease in soreness did not improve their subsequent performance. They did, however, gain a massive 400g (yes, four hundred grams) of muscle on their legs.
    Actually, 400g is about 1 lb of muscle, which is extremely impressive if you consider differential muscle accrual in trained populations. It's ok though, I'll just throw an amino acid patch on and save myself the time and money of using HICA.
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    I personally like the amino patches so far. Reminds me of the silk protein bs to where they said it was so great but the group using silk also used boss's. Lucine is so much cheaper and better bang for your buck than hica.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    I personally like the amino patches so far. Reminds me of the silk protein bs to where they said it was so great but the group using silk also used boss's. Lucine is so much cheaper and better bang for your buck than hica.
    That may or may not be true...unfortunately, the research does not exist yet, but I'd tend to agree.
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    I am liking the amino patches. Reminds me of free form liquid aminos or even the liver tabs
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    even the liver tabs
    is that a good thing?
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    We use to say the same thing about HMB (leucine is cheaper and better), but... Maybe not: http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab....mb-review.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Actually, 400g is about 1 lb of muscle, which is extremely impressive if you consider differential muscle accrual in trained populations. It's ok though, I'll just throw an amino acid patch on and save myself the time and money of using HICA.
    I actually laughed out loud cy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd
    We use to say the same thing about HMB (leucine is cheaper and better), but... Maybe not: http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab....mb-review.html
    HMB is good. The problem is the initial marketing companies made it out to be steroid-like. So when people didn't gain 5lbs per month they were let down

    Leucine is loved for the research and cost. It's not hated because no one expects to gain huge gains on it. Even with all the amazing Leucine research I've never heard anyone who says they gain lean muscle every month strictly from Leucine

    HICA, HMB, and Leucine are all solid ingredients, if used correctly and understood correctly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster

    HMB is good. The problem is the initial marketing companies made it out to be steroid-like. So when people didn't gain 5lbs per month they were let down

    Leucine is loved for the research and cost. It's not hated because no one expects to gain huge gains on it. Even with all the amazing Leucine research I've never heard anyone who says they gain lean muscle every month strictly from Leucine

    HICA, HMB, and Leucine are all solid ingredients, if used correctly and understood correctly.
    ^^^this exactly. That idiot bill Phillips and the genesis of EAS with his ludicrous claims about HMB
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    Maybe eventually when the prices drop on hmb and hica I'll be able to really use them in the amount that is actually effective. Until then there's a lot I'd rather use as a staple in my plan. Interesed though, cellucore is about to launch their bcaa intra product with clincial dose of hica that will taste as good as c4... I can't wait to try it if the price is good but I would bet its a lot more than recover pro or xtend which are always in my cabinet
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    HMB is good. The problem is the initial marketing companies made it out to be steroid-like. So when people didn't gain 5lbs per month they were let down

    Leucine is loved for the research and cost. It's not hated because no one expects to gain huge gains on it. Even with all the amazing Leucine research I've never heard anyone who says they gain lean muscle every month strictly from Leucine

    HICA, HMB, and Leucine are all solid ingredients, if used correctly and understood correctly.
    I want Dr. Houser to delve a little more into HMB. He has stated that he likes it, but he has been on a hiatus from the boards.

    I think ProSupps just came out with a HICA, HMB, and Leucine product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    HMB is good. The problem is the initial marketing companies made it out to be steroid-like. So when people didn't gain 5lbs per month they were let down

    Leucine is loved for the research and cost. It's not hated because no one expects to gain huge gains on it. Even with all the amazing Leucine research I've never heard anyone who says they gain lean muscle every month strictly from Leucine

    HICA, HMB, and Leucine are all solid ingredients, if used correctly and understood correctly.
    Exactly...I particularly like the part in the Tampa study about overreaching.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Exactly...I particularly like the part in the Tampa study about overreaching.
    That was certainly interesting, and I think many of the more "anal" BBers are over-reaching without even realizing it.
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