Need help with a hardcore stack (Non-hormonal)

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    Need help with a hardcore stack (Non-hormonal)


    Hey guys, recently I was blinded by taking a PH to get over a recent plateau. After tons of research I saw that even if I ran it successfully, theres still a chance of me ruining my body. Now I am looking for a better solution, what do you guys think would be a good muscle building stack. Money isn't too much of a problem...as long as it doesn't go over 200. My diet is in check and so is my protein intake...I switch up my routine after 2 months. If you guys could possibly give me a stack that would help me get over a plateau, so I can continue to make gains.

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    testopro + agmatine
    S.n.S team member
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    Thanks man +rep, do you have any other supps to stack with that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    Hey guys, recently I was blinded by taking a PH to get over a recent plateau. After tons of research I saw that even if I ran it successfully, theres still a chance of me ruining my body. Now I am looking for a better solution, what do you guys think would be a good muscle building stack. Money isn't too much of a problem...as long as it doesn't go over 200. My diet is in check and so is my protein intake...I switch up my routine after 2 months. If you guys could possibly give me a stack that would help me get over a plateau, so I can continue to make gains.
    Instead of looking at supplements, how about just making sure your nutrition is indeed on target for making gains, adjusting both that and your training every 4-8 weeks - or whenever your progress slows - in order to prevent plateaus.

    ~Rosie~
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    What changes would you make in nutrition every 4-8 weeks? Just curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taylorgains96 View Post
    What changes would you make in nutrition every 4-8 weeks? Just curious.
    Ideally you should be making minor changes EVERY week, dependent on what progress you made in that week. As for every 4-8 weeks, if one is making gains (or, in the other direction, losing bodyfat) or their training changes (re volume, intensity, frequency, etc.), then their Maintenance is also going to change - therefore, perpetually following a specific nutrition plan re calories is not always going to work, and if you do follow one perpetually, then you are going to eventually plateau, because you will no longer be eating ideally or optimally for effective progress.

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    Nutrition isn't really the problem, I do have the occasional cheat days...but im 20 years old my metabolism is fast as hell...I eat a high protein, medium carb diet. Changing nutrition in essence would do nothing for me...Just for information sake, my diet is around 2600 cals a day. Most of my cals are very clean (Steak /w sweet potatoes, Talapia with white rice, broccoli, sauteed spinach, Tuna fish on lettuce leaves) my carbs are usually eaten before training and at breakfast (oatmeal, whole wheat toast with pb, egg sandwhiches). I usually cut my carb intake at 10 pm, now your probably gonna say "well 2600 is a low cal intake for a person who wants to grow"...yea its not 3500 cals a day but im not a big guy and I don't have enough time in the day to fit it. Im not looking at supps for the "magical pill" effect but rather make me train harder, longer, and rebound quicker. I say this is what makes a successful formula-50% nutrition-40% training-10% supps...

    EDIT: I do see your point but im not really bulking or cutting. I eat what my body needs to make myself grow. I have done 2-3 bulking/cutting phases...it just doesn't work for me because as soon as I take a break from working out for personal reasons, my body always goes back to its original weight because of my metabolism...So changing my nutrition doesn't convince me about getting over plateaus in strength gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    Nutrition isn't really the problem, I do have the occasional cheat days...but im 20 years old my metabolism is fast as hell...I eat a high protein, medium carb diet. Changing nutrition in essence would do nothing for me...Just for information sake, my diet is around 2600 cals a day. Most of my cals are very clean (Steak /w sweet potatoes, Talapia with white rice, broccoli, sauteed spinach, Tuna fish on lettuce leaves) my carbs are usually eaten before training and at breakfast (oatmeal, whole wheat toast with pb, egg sandwhiches). I usually cut my carb intake at 10 pm, now your probably gonna say "well 2600 is a low cal intake for a person who wants to grow"...yea its not 3500 cals a day but im not a big guy and I don't have enough time in the day to fit it. Im not looking at supps for the "magical pill" effect but rather make me train harder, longer, and rebound quicker. I say this is what makes a successful formula-50% nutrition-40% training-10% supps...
    Supplements are not going to make you train harder or longer, although it is possible that they can help you recover faster (I take it this is what you mean when you say "rebound quicker"). Everyone is different in the percentage that nutrition and training contribute to progress and results, but re supplements, I believe that this is only the top 1-2%, maybe as much as ~5% for the very experienced and highly trained individual or athlete, but not a lot more, IMO.

    As far as your nutrition, how do you know that it isn't the problem? If you're not eating enough, you're not going to make gains, period. And if you KNOW that you are not eating enough to make gains and you "don't have enough time in the day to fit it in", then you had better MAKE time - if you want something, you find a way to make it happen, period!

    ~Rosie~
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    Haha I like your determination a lot rosie, your one of the very few girls who truly understand proper training protocol...Most girls eat very little and workout for hours and complain why they don't get results...but thats another topic, as for my defense sake i found that 2600-2800 is sort of my sweet spot. It's not really muscle growth that concerns me, its more of getting the most out of my gym time. The plateau comes from mostly constantly having the same rep range and strength despite my routine.
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    Erase + DAA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangatang View Post
    Erase + DAA.

    doesn't DAA have some side effects if im not mistaken?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    EDIT: I do see your point but im not really bulking or cutting. I eat what my body needs to make myself grow. I have done 2-3 bulking/cutting phases...it just doesn't work for me because as soon as I take a break from working out for personal reasons, my body always goes back to its original weight because of my metabolism...So changing my nutrition doesn't convince me about getting over plateaus in strength gains.
    I'm not a huge advocate of "bulking/cutting phases", especially since my body almost always recomps regardless of what I do. However, if you stop training, then yes, your body will highly likely stop making progress, and it may appear that you have "lost" any gains made because your muscles will appear smaller due to lack of pump, etc. from lifting, when they are not; although, you CAN lose your gains if you don't eat to MAINTAIN them.

    Re strength, this is BOTH a nutrition AND training issue - you can eat for gains, but if you're not lifting appropriately for strength, then you may not see any progress in that area.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    Haha I like your determination a lot rosie, your one of the very few girls who truly understand proper training protocol...Most girls eat very little and workout for hours and complain why they don't get results...but thats another topic, as for my defense sake i found that 2600-2800 is sort of my sweet spot. It's not really muscle growth that concerns me, its more of getting the most out of my gym time. The plateau comes from mostly constantly having the same rep range and strength despite my routine.
    I know about most girls - hence why I take such a firm stance on what I do and want to educate people on females and training, etc., change the many wrong mindsets that a high number of both females AND males have when it comes to females, training, and getting results - but yes, that is another topic; one that we are not going to get into.

    "Getting the most out of my gym time" can mean any number of things. Personally, whilst it is important to be fit and healthy and exercise is good for you, unless you have a PURPOSE for being in the gym and training, you are just wasting your time and effort being in there, IMO. EVERY training session should have a goal, a purpose in the progression towards your overall goal or endpoint.

    You pointed out one of your issues right there: "The plateau comes from mostly constantly having the same rep range and strength despite my routine." Adjusting and manipulating your training means changing rep ranges, adding weight in consecutive sessions, varying recovery periods, etc. More importantly, whilst there is an "accepted" and "general" rep range for strength - i.e. 4-8 reps for basic strength and 2-5 reps for strength/power - you can do a lot working within those ranges to aid in strength gains. You don't even have to use the same rep range for the same given session every week, either. Knowing how to adjust your training will ensure that you don't plateau and continue making progress.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    doesn't DAA have some side effects if im not mistaken?
    It can cause an increase in estrogen - hence why the Erase was recommended to be stacked with it; not to mention that it would assist re progress.

    ~Rosie~
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    You have a dedication problem mainly....and every single thing Rosie mentioned.
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    No offense man but my dedication is pretty high...yes I may have some problems adjusting my training and diet to where it needs to be but so does anybody who is a fulltime college student with a job. Rosie did give some very good pointers that I will take into consideration...she is most likely right that the plateau could be overcome without supps but I am still looking for that extra boost. Maybe I should rephrase my point, could anyone please suggest a stack that is not the ordinary pre-workout/creatine/protein stack. The DAA+Erase was a good idea and more something I was looking for.
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    Sorry to double post but this is what I was thinking:
    DAA Test Force 2 or TCF-1 (not sure which one is better)
    Erase
    Testabolan v2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    Thanks man +rep, do you have any other supps to stack with that?
    Add in your fav preworkout .. That's all you'll need
    S.n.S team member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    No offense man but my dedication is pretty high...yes I may have some problems adjusting my training and diet to where it needs to be but so does anybody who is a fulltime college student with a job. Rosie did give some very good pointers that I will take into consideration...she is most likely right that the plateau could be overcome without supps but I am still looking for that extra boost. Maybe I should rephrase my point, could anyone please suggest a stack that is not the ordinary pre-workout/creatine/protein stack. The DAA+Erase was a good idea and more something I was looking for.
    Hey Man, im also a college student with a job so i know how you feel. My current stack is:TestoPro,ZMA,Creatine Mono, Fish Oil, CLA, L Arginine, Superior Aminos, I have seen great results with this stack, but im also eating Full Meals (chicken, Brown Rice, Green Veggies etc.) every 2-2.5 hours, eating is the most important i believe, and training hard comes second.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQNemesis View Post
    testopro + agmatine
    I like this, throw in the DAA + Erase and it would be pretty crazy.

    But....

    $200 in supplements vs $200 spent on getting your nutrition better. Overall I'm guessing that spending the money on nutrition will serve you better. You said

    I say this is what makes a successful formula-50% nutrition-40% training-10% supps...
    And i'd say its more like 70% nutrition, 20% training.

    As far as your training goes, you say that you switch up your training every 2 months but

    The plateau comes from mostly constantly having the same rep range and strength
    well, apparently you aren't actually switching your training then. Even if you are switching from flat to incline press, or bb to db press, you need to vary the rep ranges as well. If you are looking more for strength gains, drop to a max weight for 3-5 reps for the first exercise on each body part. Looking more for size? End every exercise with a lower weight 30 rep burnout set.
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    Triple threat stack
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    Alpha T2, Titanium, DAA, Erase. I'm currently running that and getting some pretty good results from it. I ran it like this: (I know this isn't totally necessary but I don't like putting two tons of stuff in me at once in case something weird happens)

    Week 1-2: T2 (2 morning, 1 45 before lunch) + Titanium (1 morning, 1 pre-bed)
    Week 2-3: T2 + Titanium + Erase (1 pre bed)
    Week 3-7: T2 + Titanium + Erase (1 morning, 1 pre-bed) + DAA (add into pre-wo)
    Week 7+: I'm going to start taking dropping items off.

    My disclaimer is I do agree that the money would better be spent on food. No supp is going to add mass without the right nutrients.
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    I second who said DAA + Erase, or DAA + Lean xtreme and a nutrient partitioner like slin sane.

    Mike
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    What brand do you guys recommend for a DAA? and also if I stack DAA+Anabolic Pump+Erase+testopro would that be too much?
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    bump any suggestions?
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    TCF-1 from PP, Testforce2 by epharm, or just Bulk DAA
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    So TCF-1, Erase and Testopro would have good synergy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues91 View Post
    So TCF-1, Erase and Testopro would have good synergy?
    Those are all DAA options my man. Get 2 bottles of TCF-1 and a bottle of Erase. It will smack cortisol and estro down while boosting testosterone.
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    thanks bud +rep for being very helpful.
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    people should really look into Lit Up if they want DAA. contains 3g which u really shouldnt be taking any more than that, and a solid pre workout for focus/pump. kill 2 birds with one stone. and nutra has a great price on it for only $19.99
  

  
 

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