Erase side from Estrogen or cort??

[Machmood]

I have been reading a lot of reviews on erase and everyone seems to think the joint problems are coming from the lowered estrogen but isn't it reasonable to believe it is from the lower cortisol?? I know erase works but it doesn't crush estrogen like other OTC AI's. Just curious what your guys thoughts are on this?? I know on the SHR podcast Josh poole said his estrogen went from the high 40's to 31 using 2 caps. Even if taking 3 caps took him to 20 I wouldn't think that's low enough to cause major joint pains

 

[Rosie Chee]

I have been reading a lot of reviews on erase and everyone seems to think the joint problems are coming from the lowered estrogen but isn't it reasonable to believe it is from the lower cortisol?? I know erase works but it doesn't crush estrogen like other OTC AI's. Just curious what your guys thoughts are on this?? I know on the SHR podcast Josh poole said his estrogen went from the high 40's to 31 using 2 caps. Even if taking 3 caps took him to 20 I wouldn't think that's low enough to cause major joint pains

Joint issues are caused by the AI properties of Erase - a common effect of decreased estrogen is joint dryness and stiffness. Whether or not one experiences joint pain and to what degree is going to be dependent on the individual - i.e. even at the same estrogen levels, every user is not going to have the same experience re joints and pain, etc.

~Rosie~

 

[oogaly_boogal]

I have torn ligaments and cartilage in both knees, just ordered a bottle of Erase I will let you know how I feel.

 

[Athletix]

I am not familiar with the properties of erase relating to cortisol inhibition so I can't comment on that activity but assuming it did have activity on cortisol this could definitely contribute. Cortisol places a pivotal role in immune and inflammatory homeostasis and it is a very delicate balance, small fluctuations can have drastic changes.

And actually contrary to popular belief cortisol actually increases lipolysis .

 

[nattydisaster]

You have to understand everyone is going to metabolize everything different. You also have to realize everyone has different levels of estrogen. That's a really large generalization.

I've seen a ton of people, most actually, take 3 with no joint issues at all. Usually its MORE than three that causes issues. There are also people who can only take 2

Everyone is very different. Only way to know is if you try it or have tried other AIs

 

[SweetLou321]

I am not familiar with the properties of erase relating to cortisol inhibition so I can't comment on that activity but assuming it did have activity on cortisol this could definitely contribute. Cortisol places a pivotal role in immune and inflammatory homeostasis and it is a very delicate balance, small fluctuations can have drastic changes.

And actually contrary to popular belief cortisol actually increases lipolysis .

explain that last statement?

 

[Athletix]

explain that last statement?

It increases lipolysis and glucose levels, the only downside is that it also causes protein breakdown. I mean I could get into minute details but it is pretty dry stuff lol.

 

[SweetLou321]

It increases lipolysis and glucose levels, the only downside is that it also causes protein breakdown. I mean I could get into minute details but it is pretty dry stuff lol.

ah ok, sweet. I mean i dont really pay attention to all these crazy details anyways. Eat, train, sleep is what im most worried about lol. Unless you can change that.

 

[nattydisaster]

It increases lipolysis and glucose levels, the only downside is that it also causes protein breakdown. I mean I could get into minute details but it is pretty dry stuff lol.

It is tissue specific.

Changes in 11ß-HSD1 are tissue-specific: strikingly enhanced reactivation of cortisone to cortisol in subcutaneous adipose tissue may exacerbate obesity; and it may be beneficial to inhibit this enzyme in adipose tissue in obese patients.

Most people do not take cortisol inhibitors just to try to lose weight, but rather in recomp stages to help lose fat and preserve lean mass, hence cortisol inhibitors are perfect for this stage as high levels of cortisol seen in those on fat loss diets, which would lead to an increased catabolic state

 

[codered5]

Well im on day four of Erase and have no pain yet..although I am only taking two caps...maybe I should up to three and see how it goes?

I will tell you one side that is nice from Erase...it is basically like my viagra haha it is nice...may be a staple for me...cycle 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off, rinse, repeat

 

[nattydisaster]

Well im on day four of Erase and have no pain yet..although I am only taking two caps...maybe I should up to three and see how it goes?

I will tell you one side that is nice from Erase...it is basically like my viagra haha it is nice...may be a staple for me...cycle 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off, rinse, repeat

Nice!

The joint pain is not something you should want. It is a sign your dose is too high and you need to reduce it by 1 capsule.

You could go up to 3 per day, but if you do experience dry joints just go back to 2. 3 is the common dose, over 3 is when joint pain starts to effect some people

 

[Clickster]

I have been taking 3 caps a day for 5-6 weeks and have had no joint problems at all.

 

[Athletix]

It is tissue specific.

Changes in 11ß-HSD1 are tissue-specific: strikingly enhanced reactivation of cortisone to cortisol in subcutaneous adipose tissue may exacerbate obesity; and it may be beneficial to inhibit this enzyme in adipose tissue in obese patients.

Most people do not take cortisol inhibitors just to try to lose weight, but rather in recomp stages to help lose fat and preserve lean mass, hence cortisol inhibitors are perfect for this stage as high levels of cortisol seen in those on fat loss diets, which would lead to an increased catabolic state

Doesn't change the fact that cortisol does what it does. The enzymes do change in tissues, whether it be the isoform that converts cortisol to cortisone or cortisone to cortisol, but cortisol has the same effect regardless. Cortisol could be changing the levels of other hormones that have different effects, however.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

It increases lipolysis and glucose levels, the only downside is that it also causes protein breakdown. I mean I could get into minute details but it is pretty dry stuff lol.

Most people never address this! Cortisol is catabolic to muscle AND fat.

Looking at some study, only have the abstract:

Cortisol's effects on lipid metabolism are controversial and may involve stimulation of both lipolysis and lipogenesis. This study was undertaken to define the role of physiological hypercortisolemia on systemic and regional lipolysis in humans. We investigated seven healthy young male volunteers after an overnight fast on two occasions by means of microdialysis and palmitate turnover in a placebo-controlled manner with a pancreatic pituitary clamp involving inhibition with somatostatin and substitution of growth hormone, glucagon, and insulin at basal levels. Hydrocortisone infusion increased circulating concentrations of cortisol (888 ± 12 vs. 245 ± 7 nmol/l). Interstitial glycerol concentrations rose in parallel in abdominal (327 ± 35 vs. 156 ± 30 μmol/l;P = 0.05) and femoral (178 ± 28 vs. 91 ± 22 μmol/l; P = 0.02) adipose tissue. Systemic [3H]palmitate turnover increased (165 ± 17 vs. 92 ± 24 μmol/min; P = 0.01). Levels of insulin, glucagon, and growth hormone were comparable. In conclusion, the present study unmistakenly shows that cortisol in physiological concentrations is a potent stimulus of lipolysis and that this effect prevails equally in both femoral and abdominal adipose tissue.

The bolded text.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Joint issues are caused by the AI properties of Erase - a common effect of decreased estrogen is joint dryness and stiffness. Whether or not one experiences joint pain and to what degree is going to be dependent on the individual - i.e. even at the same estrogen levels, every user is not going to have the same experience re joints and pain, etc.

~Rosie~

Actually lowered cortisol does effect joints! I'd need to find a study to back that up though. I remember Patrick Arnold mega-dosing 7-keto and he had to take predinisone to bring his joints back while still on the keto.

Edit: BTW just to make this clear I love Erase, I blew through 3 bottles of it and it worked very, very well

 

[malleus25]

I take 3 caps a day of erase and zero joint pain. I lift 5-6 days a week and go heavy on the big three lifts. Anyone feeling joint pain just lower dose by one or take a better joint supp.

 

[picazzo]

I stay at 2 Erase because at three per day I get the exact same dry joint pains in the exact same joints that I get from Lean Extreme which lowers cortisol .
Both are fantastic products by the way. I just assumed my joint pain from Erase was cortisol related because of the similarities.

 

[Machmood]

I stay at 2 Erase because at three per day I get the exact same dry joint pains in the exact same joints that I get from Lean Extreme which lowers cortisol .
Both are fantastic products by the way. I just assumed my joint pain from Erase was cortisol related because of the similarities.

This is exactly the same for me. Anytime I have lowered cortisol I have had joint problems, and anytime I lowered estrogen I was fine

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I stay at 2 Erase because at three per day I get the exact same dry joint pains in the exact same joints that I get from Lean Extreme which lowers cortisol .
Both are fantastic products by the way. I just assumed my joint pain from Erase was cortisol related because of the similarities.

Seems like a general consensus. I don't think the AI properties of Erase did much for me until I hit 6 caps a day. Only mild joint issues here, for the most part I had zero.

But I got much leaner much faster and had excellent libido!

 

[Rosie Chee]

Actually lowered cortisol does effect joints! I'd need to find a study to back that up though. I remember Patrick Arnold mega-dosing 7-keto and he had to take predinisone to bring his joints back while still on the keto.

I never said it didn't Chris - just that the joint issues were more likely to be from the AI properties of Erase that decreased cortisol. A combination of both is probably the cause in most individuals though, albeit not all.

Decreasing estrogen and cortisol doesn't have to mean painful joints though, and I use 5 caps of Erase a day with no issues. Everything is very individual dependent re effects.

~Rosie~