7-KETO - Useless?

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  1. 7-KETO - Useless?


    I know there are newer versions but I still have a few bottles of 7-keto that I have yet to use.

    I've read that 7-Keto has a poor oral absorption ratio. So is it useless?
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I know there are newer versions but I still have a few bottles of 7-keto that I have yet to use.

    I've read that 7-Keto has a poor oral absorption ratio. So is it useless?
    I've found both oral and topical to be effective. In my experience, it's more about the dosage used. Taurus Nutrition's 7-KE Topical Spray is the best 7-KE product I have used to date.

    ~Rosie~
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  3. As with any supplement, it really depends on the company and their understanding of the components to make a quality product that gets maximum absorption. Taurus has been getting great feedback on theirs. However, if you get a company that just jumps on whatever the hot new supplement is and rushes a product out there without fully understanding what they even have, then is does tend to suck.
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  4. In Taurus' write up, they mention the very poor absorption rates though (I am paraprasing). Any truth to this?

    HERE:

    Taurus Nutrition Topical 7-KE on sale!

    ""7-keto-DHEA, has a terrible ORAL availability and a half life of only 2 hours. However, topical delivery system will dramatically increase it's bioavailability"""
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    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
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  5. I've used it oraly and had no positive effects from it. Prob has to be dosed pretty high.

  6. Thanks. How much did you use?
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
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  7. I find 200mg oral to be effective....but when I used transdermal 7oxo at about 50mg a day the difference was dramatically better.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I find 200mg oral to be effective....but when I used transdermal 7oxo at about 50mg a day the difference was dramatically better.
    have you tried the 7-ke spray?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    have you tried the 7-ke spray?
    Not yet....I def plan on it though, I really mean that!
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Not yet....I def plan on it though, I really mean that!
    lol-i believe you....i know you are a fan of 7-keto, and this spray is vastly superior to the oral products according to the reviews. i should be getting my bottle this coming week and can't wait to try it.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol-i believe you....i know you are a fan of 7-keto, and this spray is vastly superior to the oral products according to the reviews. i should be getting my bottle this coming week and can't wait to try it.
    It certainly is the most effective 7-KE product I have ever used. The other ones were the original DermaTherm (no longer available) and the original Lean Xtreme (also no longer available).

    ~Rosie~
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee

  12. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol-i believe you....i know you are a fan of 7-keto, and this spray is vastly superior to the oral products according to the reviews. i should be getting my bottle this coming week and can't wait to try it.
    I will be certainly looking forward to Taurus's entire product line...starting with 7KE. I dont normally endorse companies this strongly especially this early on, but I have a great feeling about this.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  13. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I will be certainly looking forward to Taurus's entire product line...starting with 7KE. I dont normally endorse companies this strongly especially this early on, but I have a great feeling about this.
    Not all companies are born with an already established owner and formulator in this industry though - Eric has a well proven track record and history and he has been great to me over the years, so I have no issues endorsing Taurus Nutrition (the same goes for Genomyx after Matt became part of the team)

    ~Rosie~
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I know there are newer versions but I still have a few bottles of 7-keto that I have yet to use.

    I've read that 7-Keto has a poor oral absorption ratio. So is it useless?

    is not useless you need tweak your dose "up a little"



    Dosage and Administration

    7-oxo-DHEA has been associated with a high degree of safety and a low incidence of side effects. One toxicological study at up to 2 g/kg orally daily found "no observable, serious, adverse effects on either male or female rats" [8]. This study, along with another, found no significant increase in the weight of vital organs such as the liver [2]. However, one study found 7-oxo-DHEA to increase liver weight in rodents (DHEA also has this effect) [16]. Monkeys have also been given up 500 mg/kg daily without any adverse effects or changes in toxicological parameters (for a 175 lb. human, this would equate to 200 times the standard oral dose of 200 mg). 1000 mg/kg was associated with vomiting and salivation, but the vomiting also occured in the same animals on days that 7-oxo-DHEA was not administered, indicating that it may not have been due to the substance [17].

    In human studies, 7-oxo-DHEA has been well tolerated, with no side effects reported at 200 mg orally [7, 15, 24]. Three studies have examined the effects of 7-oxo-DHEA on endrocrinological parameters. One found no significant change in blood sugar, testosterone, estradiol, or thyroid hormones other than T3, for which there was an increase. There were also no changes in tests of liver and kidney function or vital signs [15]. The other studies, the Sulcova and Davidson studies mentioned earlier (involving 25 mg transdermally for 5 days and escalating doses to 200 mg for eight weeks respectively, both in males), found reductions in total testosterone of approximately 10%, while Davidson et al. found an increase in free (usable) testosterone of about 15%. Estradiol was also decreased over the course of the study by 66% and 8% in these studies, and the second difference was not statistically significant. Overall, the effects on endrocrinological variables were either small or inconsistent, and they always remained within normal parameters [7, 22].

    The primary methods of administration for 7-oxo-DHEA are oral and transdermal Transdermal administration offers multiple advantages. It has been found to be a very effective delivery method for DHEA [20, 22]. Since the half-life after oral administration of 7-oxo-DHEA is only about two hours [24], transdermal administration offers a more sustained release. In terms of which delivery method will be more effective, theoretical arguments have been presented both ways. Since transdermal administration is less likely to reach the liver, there will be less activation of thermogenic enzymes in the liver. On the other hand, 7-oxo-DHEA is metabolized to a large extent in the liver, so transdermal administration will result in more 7-oxo-DHEA reaching other tissues.

    The oral dosage recommended in the literature is 200 mg (100 mg twice daily), although some have reported using higher doses. For oral use, it would ideally be taken multiple times throughout the day. Most have used a dose around 100 mg transdermally, although it is clear that even 25 mg transdermally exerts an effect.

    In conclusion, 7-oxo-DHEA is a promising agent for fat loss and offers a variety of other potential benefits. It is also safe and generally free of side effects. Further research may find that 7-oxo-DHEA shares many of the other beneficial properties of DHEA.

    References

    1. Arch Biochem Biophys. 2003 Apr 15;412(2):251-8. Glucocorticoids inhibit interconversion of 7-hydroxy and 7-oxo metabolites of dehydroepiandrosterone: a role for 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases? Robinzon B, Michael KK, Ripp SL, Winters SJ, Prough RA.

    2. Steroids. 2004 Feb;69(2):137-44. Antioxidant effects of dehydroepiandrosterone and 7alpha-hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone in the rat colon, intestine and liver. Pelissier MA, Trap C, Malewiak MI, Morfin R.

    3. Drug Metab Dispos. 2004 Mar;32(3):305-13. Stereo- and regioselectivity account for the diversity of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) metabolites produced by liver microsomal cytochromes P450. Miller KK, Cai J, Ripp SL, Pierce WM Jr, Rushmore TH, Prough RA.

    4. Biochemistry. 2002 Apr 30;41(17):5473-82. Molecular differences caused by differentiation of 3T3-L1 preadipocytes in the presence of either dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) or 7-oxo-DHEA. Gomez FE, Miyazaki M, Kim YC, Marwah P, Lardy HA, Ntambi JM, Fox BG.

    5. Brain Res. 2003 Apr 18;969(1-2):117-25. In vitro metabolism of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) to 7alpha-hydroxy-DHEA and Delta5-androstene-3beta,17beta-diol in specific regions of the aging brain from Alzheimer's and non-demented patients. Weill-Engerer S, David JP, Sazdovitch V, Liere P, Schumacher M, Delacourte A, Baulieu EE, Akwa Y.
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  15. There are only 12 bottles left guys at sale price!!

    http://taurus-nutrition.com/product.php?id_product=13

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    There are only 12 bottles left guys at sale price!!

    http://taurus-nutrition.com/product.php?id_product=13
    Where`s my box of this?
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  17. I lied down to 11

  18. Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    Where`s my box of this?
    The 7-KE is going out the door today!

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    The 7-KE is going out the door today!
    rosie and max both recommend this highly-if that isn't a great endorsement i don't know what is.

    i am very excited to use 7-ke....hell yeah!!!!

  20. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    rosie and max both recommend this highly-if that isn't a great endorsement i don't know what is.

    i am very excited to use 7-ke....hell yeah!!!!
    Hello ab's!

  21. I'm currently on a 500mg oral dose of 7-keto (Body Science Fatburner NoStim), works great and the price is awesome! Have about half of it left, so it will be cool to see how well it worked when I'm done with it

  22. When I google 7-Keto DHEA there's tons of companies selling this stuff for cheap.

    Are they just cheaper forms?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    When I google 7-Keto DHEA there's tons of companies selling this stuff for cheap.

    Are they just cheaper forms?
    you do know this is a topical spray, right?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    you do know this is a topical spray, right?
    Correct...




    Pretty sure Erase isn't though?
  25. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    rosie and max both recommend this highly-if that isn't a great endorsement i don't know what is.

    i am very excited to use 7-ke....hell yeah!!!!
    I feel left out
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Correct...




    Pretty sure Erase isn't though?
    7-Ke is a topical spray.

    Erase is a capsulated product.

    ~Rosie~
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee Scott View Post
    7-Ke is a topical spray.

    Erase is a capsulated product.

    ~Rosie~
    Correct...

    Not sure why everyone is so confused? Lol



    There are companies selling 7-Keto DHEA dosed at 100mg/cap for $10 a bottle. I'm just wonder why there is such a huge price gap.


    I understand the topical may be better absorbed, but how about Erase's justification? Or is it just mark-up?
  28. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    erase isn't a 7 keto dhea product though.
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  29. Currently selling oral 7-keto in our new Androlean product. The absorption and bioavailability is significantly higher than in standard 7-keto oral products. You can find it at Nutraplanet or the Primordial store.

    BTW, 7-keto oral and 7-keto topical have different affects, I was talking with henryv about this on another forum. I'll have to get the source material.
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Correct...

    Not sure why everyone is so confused? Lol



    There are companies selling 7-Keto DHEA dosed at 100mg/cap for $10 a bottle. I'm just wonder why there is such a huge price gap.


    I understand the topical may be better absorbed, but how about Erase's justification? Or is it just mark-up?
    Erase is not 7-keto-DHEA, it is a metabolite of 7-keto-DHEA that some refer to as 3-desoxy-7-keto-DHEA or 3,7-DHEA. It has completely different properties than 7-keto-DHEA

    We name the product with the proper chemical name on our label because that is the compliant want to do it.
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  31. Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Correct...

    Not sure why everyone is so confused? Lol



    There are companies selling 7-Keto DHEA dosed at 100mg/cap for $10 a bottle. I'm just wonder why there is such a huge price gap.


    I understand the topical may be better absorbed, but how about Erase's justification? Or is it just mark-up?
    ok, i took your challenge and googled 7-keto dhea, very few were topicals. so i tried 7-keto dhea topical. i saw a couple that were very low priced and looked like 15mg added to hand lotion. i also saw a few in the $45 range that didn't have the more advanced delivery system or the additional ingredients that 7-ke has.

    i think that after you weigh in the advanced carrier for maximum absorption and the additional ingredients that are included, you will find that 7-ke is an exceptional value.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ok, i took your challenge and googled 7-keto dhea, very few were topicals. so i tried 7-keto dhea topical. i saw a couple that were very low priced and looked like 15mg added to hand lotion. i also saw a few in the $45 range that didn't have the more advanced delivery system or the additional ingredients that 7-ke has.

    i think that after you weigh in the advanced carrier for maximum absorption and the additional ingredients that are included, you will find that 7-ke is an exceptional value.
    Sorry, I should have been more clear.

    The 7-KE topical spray is justified, and I see how it is fairly priced.

    Edit: I just read Natty's post....that is where I was confused. I read somewhere that Erase was a 7-Keto DHEA product, but essentially it is not.

    Thanks for clearing that up guys, and I apologize for the confusion!

    From the sounds of it, if they are different metabolites with different pathways...they'd probably compliment each other nicely.

  33. Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Sorry, I should have been more clear.

    The 7-KE topical spray is justified, and I see how it is fairly priced.


    I was more or less wondering how Erase is $30, when products like NOW 7-Keto are 100mg per cap for $10 a bottle.
    i think nattydisaster already cleared that up. 7-keto seems to act very differently when used as a topical, same as dhea. and erase is a different than 7-keto.

  34. Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Sorry, I should have been more clear.

    The 7-KE topical spray is justified, and I see how it is fairly priced.

    Edit: I just read Natty's post....that is where I was confused. I read somewhere that Erase was a 7-Keto DHEA product, but essentially it is not.

    Thanks for clearing that up guys, and I apologize for the confusion!

    From the sounds of it, if they are different metabolites with different pathways...they'd probably compliment each other nicely.
    Yea they would stack nicely
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  35. Thanks guys!

    I work for AEN, so the whole nomenclature, compounds, etc. is all a whole new world to me. I'm trying my best lol

  36. No worries!
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  37. Quote Originally Posted by DaveGabe24 View Post
    Edit: I just read Natty's post....that is where I was confused. I read somewhere that Erase was a 7-Keto DHEA product, but essentially it is not.

    . . .

    From the sounds of it, if they are different metabolites with different pathways...they'd probably compliment each other nicely.
    3,7-keto is defintiely different to 7-keto, yes. And yes, 7-KE and Erase compliment each other perfectly

    ~Rosie~
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

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  38. i went to the site but it was taken down?
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  39. Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post
    i went to the site but it was taken down?
    Yes, there is no more 7-KE.

    ~Rosie~
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee

  40. Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post
    i went to the site but it was taken down?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee Scott View Post
    Yes, there is no more 7-KE.

    ~Rosie~
    You guys destroyed us on the 7-KE as well as everyone else. if it does come back it wont be a sale price thats for sure..
  

  
 

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