Epi + Protomax Cycle....Thoughts...Suggestion s?

KtchnChmst

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Whats up fellas,
First just a heads up, I've got quite a few cycles under my belt using Anabolics of all kinds...So I'm fairly "broken-in"!

Managed to get my hands on some Epi-Strong and Protomax for FREE!

Was thinking of hitting a heavy 4wk "Burst" cycle stacking both.

*Weeks 1-4
.5mg Adex/day
150mg Protomax/day
90mg Epi-Strong/day
6 Liv52 caps/day

*Followed by 4wks PCT
100mg Clomid/day
20mg Nolvadex/day
Milk Thistle + NAC


-Thoughts?
-Suggestions?
 
mich29

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Whats up fellas,
First just a heads up, I've got quite a few cycles under my belt using Anabolics of all kinds...So I'm fairly "broken-in"!

Managed to get my hands on some Epi-Strong and Protomax for FREE!

Was thinking of hitting a heavy 4wk "Burst" cycle stacking both.

*Weeks 1-4
.5mg Adex/day
150mg Protomax/day
90mg Epi-Strong/day
6 Liv52 caps/day

*Followed by 4wks PCT
100mg Clomid/day
20mg Nolvadex/day
Milk Thistle + NAC


-Thoughts?
-Suggestions?
this looks like one hell of a cycle bro.I hope you do a log for this one.I'd def like to follow it.I ran i force's version and loved it.

I like your setup but I'd def look into need to build's muscle bridge product during pct or during your cycle also PhytoSerms-347 might be something to look into as well.maybe even our gear product to help maximize your protein intake.

I actually have a sale going on right now offering a 25% off discount and I'm personally offering a free product when you use the mich2925 discount code.for more details on this check out the company promo thread.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/170992-use-mich2925-get.html
 

SweetLou321

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im assuming epi-strong is an epi clone? so why 90mg? Ive ran epi that high. it was of no more benifit then 40-60mg was. I prefer 40mg as i get no joint pain, 60mg is pushin it. 90 just hurt.
 
mich29

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im assuming epi-strong is an epi clone? so why 90mg? Ive ran epi that high. it was of no more benifit then 40-60mg was. I prefer 40mg as i get no joint pain, 60mg is pushin it. 90 just hurt.
yea its one hell of a cycle.I'd def like to see a log put up.
 

KtchnChmst

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Thoughts on "potential" Liver Toxicity??

I'm personally not a hure believer in most of the hype surrounding "irreversable damage" done to the liver....This is just from my own personal experience, as well as interacting with others who have taken MASS AMOUNTS of orals for extended periods of time.
 
mich29

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Thoughts on "potential" Liver Toxicity??

I'm personally not a hure believer in most of the hype surrounding "irreversable damage" done to the liver....This is just from my own personal experience, as well as interacting with others who have taken MASS AMOUNTS of orals for extended periods of time.
I've seen people here at Am run much worse but it all comes down to how healthy you are and if your body can take this sort of thing.
 
bashman

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Whats up fellas,
First just a heads up, I've got quite a few cycles under my belt using Anabolics of all kinds...So I'm fairly "broken-in"!

Managed to get my hands on some Epi-Strong and Protomax for FREE!

Was thinking of hitting a heavy 4wk "Burst" cycle stacking both.

*Weeks 1-4
.5mg Adex/day
150mg Protomax/day
90mg Epi-Strong/day
6 Liv52 caps/day

*Followed by 4wks PCT
100mg Clomid/day
20mg Nolvadex/day
Milk Thistle + NAC


-Thoughts?
-Suggestions?
"One hell" of a dumb cycle. There is no benefit in running EPI that high, let alone running with protomax, again at such high dose. Then you are running .5mg Adex on top to cursh your estrogen.

Just run something stronger e.g. SD 4 weeks and be down with it, rather than ridiculously high dose
 
bashman

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I've seen people here at Am run much worse but it all comes down to how healthy you are and if your body can take this sort of thing.
No it's about point of diminishing returns, where you're doing more harm than good.
 

SweetLou321

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Id say do 40-60mg epi for 6 weeks instead of this 4 week pulse monster thing. More gains that can be kept into post cycle
 
mich29

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The 90 on the epi does make me nervous.I'll have to get jasen in here to see this one and see what he thinks as I'm very interested in his thoughts on this one.good discussion here so far fellas.
 
mich29

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I would rather run epi and d plex, whats protomax? Last I seen a log on it, it sucked :/
it was pat's long forgotten ph from years ago.imo I believe it has to be run at at pretty high dose in order to reap the rewards.I ran it at a high dose and really enjoyed it myself.
 
WhatsaRoid?

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it was pat's long forgotten ph from years ago.imo I believe it has to be run at at pretty high dose in order to reap the rewards.
Crap Crap Crap and even that cyntostan sp? or whatever is crap last log I seen. Soon as I can I'm going to order my D-Plex and erase :)
 
Jasen

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First TAKE THE DEAL of pytho from mich

Second ur epi is to high its like sd at 50mg there is no point. Bring it to like 60 and run.it for 6wks and whats protomax?

Also imo adex is not needed with epi....
 
WhatsaRoid?

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First TAKE THE DEAL of pytho from mich

Second ur epi is to high its like sd at 50mg there is no point. Bring it to like 60 and run.it for 6wks and whats protomax?
I like to run most ph's one cap a day two max I'm not sure why people want to OD off these things. Honestly if you only knew what these things really do to you, how hard it is for your body to process and get it out your body you might think again on dosing that high. If you want to dose high get on some Test E and go to town. My 2 cents plus most guys that dose that high do it because they need extra help from a lacking workout set up or diet :p just sayin :nana:
 
mich29

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First TAKE THE DEAL of pytho from mich

Second ur epi is to high its like sd at 50mg there is no point. Bring it to like 60 and run.it for 6wks and whats protomax?

Also imo adex is not needed with epi....
protomax is a clone of Protodrol I believe here is a little info on it.

Protodrol






Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-5a-androst-17b-ol, or 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane, or 17a-methyl-etioallocholane-17b-ol, or 17a-methylandrostan-17-ol

Synonyms: Protodrol, desoxymestanolone, desoxymethyldihydrotestosterone, proto-plex

Before being launched as "Protodrol" by iForce Nutrition, this compound was mentioned in Vida's book, as well as a couple of medical studies, and like lots of designer steroids was synthesized at one point by Patrick Arnold.

If you thought that the nomenclature looks a lot like methyl DHT, you'd be right. This compound is methyl DHT without the 3-ketone (so it could be described as 3-desoxy mestanolone).



A 3-ketone usually increases activity, so one could assume from this that methyl DHT would be stronger than its desoxy cousin Protodrol, however the Vida data would suggest otherwise (though it's worth remembering that the different sources Vida quotes often give wildly differing values for the same compounds, so they shouldn't be taken as gospel).

There also exists the possibility that the body is capable of introducing a 3-ketone to protodrol in vivo. This is well-documented with delta4 3-desoxy steroids such as ethylestrenol, but whether it's possible or not with protodrol is unknown.

1. Vida on 3-substitution

2. A more recent study on the effects of 3-substitution

However, the main marketing point of Protodrol wasn't its anabolic or androgenic potential, it was the promise of being the only 17a-methyl to be liver safe.

Despite the relatively small number of symptomatic cases of hepatic injury caused by methylated steroids, liver health is a genuine concern (not least because by the time you are symptomatic, you're already in a bad way). The primary method by which 17a-alkylated steroids induce injury on the liver is by causing a condition called cholestasis, where the liver is unable to excrete toxins into the intestine via the bile ducts. Instead, the liver gets "backed up" and waste products like bilirubin start leaking out into the blood stream (causing the yellow discolouration in the eyes and skin known as jaundice).

3. Info on cholestasis

This condition is typically reversible, but the case studies make for a sobering read. 4.

Click here to view an extract from a study done in 1966 on the hepatotoxicity of various steroids (in rabbits), used in the marketing of Protodrol. 5.
BSP = bromosulfophthalein

"Bromosulfophthalein (BSP) is a relatively nontoxic organic anion used as an in vivo indicator of liver performance. Elimination of BSP via the biliary system following iv injection requires dissociation from albumin in plasma, translocation across the sinusoidal membrane, conjugation with glutathione within the hepatocyte, translocation across the bile canalicular membrane, and excretion in bile." 6.

As you can see, if doses of protodrol failed to impair biliary function in rabbits at such high doses, it bodes well for human use, however it doesn't rule out some degree of hepatic toxicity by other mechanisms.

But what does protodrol do??

Patrick Arnold knocked some up back in '05, and had this to say about it:

"I had some people try it out, one guy in particular who was an old friend in town and was my guinea pig for stuff since back when I first was making 4-AD and its nor analog. Anyway, this guy comes back after six weeks or so and says, “What the hell WAS that stuff?” I asked him what he meant and he said it’s the best stuff he has ever taken. He had clean gains and felt great and his strength was through the roof." 7.

Of course since then there's been a lot more people use this compound, and so for dosage instructions and cycle expectations it would be wise to defer to the user logs and feedback.

References
1. Julius Vida - Androgens and Anabolic Agents, 1969.
2. Structural characteristics of anabolic androgenic steroids contributing to binding to the androgen receptor and to their anabolic and androgenic activities - Applied modifications in the steroidal structure, 2008
3. Br. J. clin. Pharmac. (1983), 15, 3-14
Drug Hepatotoxicity
4. Cholestatic Jaundice and IgA Nephropathy Induced by OTC Muscle Building Agent Superdrol [link]
5. Steroids. 1966 Feb;7(2):157-70.
Effects of various 17-alpha-alkyl substitutions and structural modifications of steroids on sulfobromophthalein (BSP) retention in rabbits.
6. Effect of Cadmium on Bromosulfophthalein Kinetics in the Isolated Perfused Rat Liver System -- Soto et al. 69 (2): 460 -- Toxicological Sciences
7. Over-The-Counter Steroid Products Part II
 
Jasen

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Yah dont know much about protomax never used it, but imo use helladrol im almost done with it and the best halodrol clone i ever used. Stack epi with it , I did this stack before with very good results
 
mich29

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Yah dont know much about protomax never used it, but imo use helladrol im almost done with it and the best halodrol clone i ever used. Stack epi with it , I did this stack before with very good results
I enjoyed it but it takes a few bottle if you want to get results from it.I remember you talkin about hella.I'ma have to pick up a few bottle of it if I can after reading through your experience because I know when you talk you talk from real life experience.
 
pigpen75

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Man, I would get something else for my liver, I dont think 6 liv52's are gonna cut it! hell the bottle says take up to 9 a day.

However, would love to follow if you log it.
 

SweetLou321

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Why stack dplex and epi? they are both dht based methyl compounds, pick one or the other.
Id say to not stack hdrol and epi as that can lead to joint issues
Cynostan was on par with superdrol, pound for pound. less lethargy and less back pumps, same gains.
Id say go with 30-40mg of epi for 6 weeks. No need for adex.
 

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