DAA Indefinitely

[nobel252]

anyone know if I could use this stuff without cycling and without any suppression.

 

[swollen87]

nobody knows.... i hope we can... every now and then i take a little bit before a fapping session ...

 

[Chops89]

I don't see suppression being a problem, as DAA stimulates release of testosterone rather than providing an exogenous source of testosterone. As for indefinite use, I'll let someone more knowledgeable answer that one.

 

[mw1]

I know one company doesn't have a problem with indefinite use but i wouldn't go 8 weeks without a break

 

[nobel252]

My reasoning for wanting to take this for so long is because it saved me from having to be on HRT for the rest of my life. I was at 260 total test then started HRT for 3 months then decided to take a risk with supplements to see if I can maintain a normal T level for my age and the damn thing worked. I also stacked it with the good old tongkat. I know tongkat has to be cycled because there definitely is tolerance issues. But not sure about amino acids.

 

[ryansm]

Your best bet is to ask PA, or Dr. D as they both have used it for extended periods.

 

[nobel252]

How can I contact PA. I was actually using his product. Btw for anyone who has used other Daa's in the market, are they as good.

 

[swollen87]

How can I contact PA. I was actually using his product. Btw for anyone who has used other Daa's in the market, are they as good.

hes on PHF... i used testforce and i used regular nutra daa... testforce was better imo...

but let me get this straight.. u went on hrt for 3 months... then came off hrt and used daa to get ur test back up within normal range?

 

[nobel252]

hes on PHF... i used testforce and i used regular nutra daa... testforce was better imo...

but let me get this straight.. u went on hrt for 3 months... then came off hrt and used daa to get ur test back up within normal range?

Yes I used Testforce 6 grams a day and a very high dose of Tongkat Ali Which gave me some serious insominia but was well worth it. I could get a copy of my lab work and try to post it up. Current test level over 800. Btw I cycled DAA with tongkat for a few months and now im over a month on phytoserms 3 caps a day. Will be doing more blood work in 2 weeks. Libido strong on the phytoserms but strength was higher on DAA/Tongkat. Maybe because the have life of Depo Test is long which i believe its only 6-days but was adding extra reps each week after the test. Im also on Synthroid for Hypothyroidism which shouldn't have anything to do with it and I did increase my fats.

 

[ryansm]

I would like to see both the past, and the upcoming blood work if you find the time.

 

[nobel252]

I would like to see both the past, and the upcoming blood work if you find the time.

Will do.

 

[AndrewNico]

Definitely an interesting thought. Although your gains will be better with on hrt

jk I would do the same if it turns out that it works

 

[rulk22]

Our Testosterone Conversion Factor-1 is very popular and effective. You should switch out Test Force 2 with TCF-1 sometime and see how you like the difference.

 

[Ev52]

Our Testosterone Conversion Factor-1 is very popular and effective. You should switch out Test Force 2 with TCF-1 sometime and see how you like the difference.

TCF-1 is a great product but it does not fully address the NMDA receptor like Test Force 2 or Applied Lit-up. I would recommend stacking TCF-1 with TMG.

 

[MAxximal]

Sweet Deal here

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/daa-180-capsules.html

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/daa-powder-150-grams.html

 

[HondaV65]

I think you should cycle DAA, but not because of what it does to your HPTA ...

Rather - I think if you take any supplement "indefinitely" it will lose it's effect on you.

Best to turn it off every now and then for a month or two and reach for a different test booster.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

TCF-1 is a great product but it does not fully address the NMDA receptor like Test Force 2 or Applied Lit-up. I would recommend stacking TCF-1 with TMG.

yah I'm actually switching between lit-up and tcf-1 as my main source of DAA and I can say for sure lit-up works faster.

 

[swollen87]

i love how all these threads turn into a primordial performance promotion...

instead of posting studies/reasons why DAA should or shouldnt be used long term w/o cycling all i see is a rep trying to push thier product.... WTF

if we wanna use your product, well buy it ... no need to litter EVERY thread with "buy our product"

just venting

 

[spartan300]

i wouldn't. basic body physiology is to return to homeostasis.

 

[princevince]

i love how all these threads turn into a primordial performance promotion...

instead of posting studies/reasons why DAA should or shouldnt be used long term w/o cycling all i see is a rep trying to push thier product.... WTF

if we wanna use your product, well buy it ... no need to litter EVERY thread with "buy our product"

just venting

Thank you swollen, you said exactly what i was thinking:bling:so i got to co-sign.

 

[spartan300]

NMDA receptors are involved with central connections and such things as long term potentiation. you may be making changes or causing some type of hypersensitivty you may or may not want (just my theory)

toxicity leads to neuronal cell death.

basic physiology leads to homeostasis. both testosterone and LH and long and short feed back loop to pituitary and hypothalamus. you have changes in GnRH output and downregulation of receptors at the level of the pituitary.

 

[swollen87]

NMDA receptors are involved with central connections and such things as long term potentiation. you may be making changes or causing some type of hypersensitivty you may or may not want (just my theory)

can you explain this a little more?

 

[zwilliby]

Not to burst anyone's bubble...but there have been a few studies that show long term DAA dosing can cause suppression. I really wouldn't do it for longer than 8 weeks man. You don't want to end up with tits or something.

Believe me or dont....IMO anything that alters hormones should be cycled.

I'm sorry about your low T bro, i hope you can find a way to fix it.

 

[swollen87]

Not to burst anyone's bubble...but there have been a few studies that show long term DAA dosing can cause suppression.

link?

i dont believe you

 

[spartan300]

can you explain this a little more?

from what i can remember, NMDA receptors are involved on postsynaptic terminals of CNS nerve synapses. These receptors are invovled in normal synapses, but when a hyperactive stimulus occurs, a change in response can result, something along the lines of change in membrane potential like making it more sensitive, therefore changing the response of some type of CNS connection. This change is called long term potentiation, and is relatively a permanent change.

i'll have to look at my notes for exact mechanisms, i don't have time for that.

whether this mechanism is activated at the level of the pituitary where DAA works, I do not know.

whether it causes enough hyperactivity, I do not know.

the above mechanism uses glutamate as a neurotransmitter. Wether DAA is capable of doing this, I do not know.

I can only hypothesize.

 

[Outstanding]

I know one company doesn't have a problem with indefinite use but i wouldn't go 8 weeks without a break

Yes, E-Pharm's label (TestForce2) right on the bottle advocates continuous usage to 'maintain peak' levels.

 

[StackedCop]

I've been on bulk DAA for 2 weeks and have a few 100 grams on hand. I don't plan on stopping for a while. What else should be ran along side of the DAA over long term use?

 

[Aleksandar37]

from what i can remember, NMDA receptors are involved on postsynaptic terminals of CNS nerve synapses. These receptors are invovled in normal synapses, but when a hyperactive stimulus occurs, a change in response can result, something along the lines of change in membrane potential like making it more sensitive, therefore changing the response of some type of CNS connection. This change is called long term potentiation, and is relatively a permanent change.

i'll have to look at my notes for exact mechanisms, i don't have time for that.

whether this mechanism is activated at the level of the pituitary where DAA works, I do not know.

whether it causes enough hyperactivity, I do not know.

the above mechanism uses glutamate as a neurotransmitter. Wether DAA is capable of doing this, I do not know.

I can only hypothesize.

Long term potentiation and depression are collectively termed plasticity. They themselves are not a permanent change, but induce strengthening and pruning of synaptic connections through NMDA receptors with the help of AMPA receptors as well. This process does not equal excitotoxicity however. I get what you're saying, but using DAA as a supplement will not cause this.

 

[swollen87]

Long term potentiation and depression are collectively termed plasticity. They themselves are not a permanent change, but induce strengthening and pruning of synaptic connections through NMDA receptors with the help of AMPA receptors as well. This process does not equal excitotoxicity however. I get what you're saying, but using DAA as a supplement will not cause this.

yo, can u 2 keep talking about this so we can continue learning

 

[urbanski]

yo, can u 2 keep talking about this so we can continue learning

^^that

 

[skiboyny]

Which tongkat did you use?

 

[ccnAbolic]

yah I'm actually switching between lit-up and tcf-1 as my main source of DAA and I can say for sure lit-up works faster.

Agreed...Just logged it. Still both are heads above regular DAA

 

[nobel252]

Which tongkat did you use?

Pasak bumi 200:1 300mgs 4 caps a day

 

[spartan300]

i don't really have any other input.

i guess you could build off the use of adding agmatine supplements to stimulate AMPA receptors, which would, correct me if i'm wrong (don't have my notes with me), remove the magnesium block from NMDA receptor allowing a calcium influx.

however, Dr. H advises not to use these in conjunction.

alekandar seems to know more about these than I.

 

[Aleksandar37]

i don't really have any other input.

i guess you could build off the use of adding agmatine supplements to stimulate AMPA receptors, which would, correct me if i'm wrong (don't have my notes with me), remove the magnesium block from NMDA receptor allowing a calcium influx.

however, Dr. H advises not to use these in conjunction.

alekandar seems to know more about these than I.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread earlier. My opinion is that you can use DAA and if it works to get your test up, then great. The only reason I would see why to cycle it is simply because your body will acclimate like it will with anything.

I don't really see any harm with respect to NMDA/AMPA receptors or any form of excitoxicity. Glycine will induce removal of the Mg block if you really think this is an issue.

 

[spartan300]

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread earlier. My opinion is that you can use DAA and if it works to get your test up, then great. The only reason I would see why to cycle it is simply because your body will acclimate like it will with anything.

I don't really see any harm with respect to NMDA/AMPA receptors or any form of excitoxicity. Glycine will induce removal of the Mg block if you really think this is an issue.

What would be the TD50 for oral ingestion of DAA in regards to neural toxicity?

Do you think supplementing with agmatine and DAA would be more efficacious than DAA alone do to the relationship of the receptors?

 

[Aleksandar37]

What would be the TD50 for oral ingestion of DAA in regards to neural toxicity?

Do you think supplementing with agmatine and DAA would be more efficacious than DAA alone do to the relationship of the receptors?

The TD50 I wouldn't know. I guess my point is more that yes, DAA is the DA in NMDA, BUT just because you supply the building blocks doesn't mean the house gets built you know? But I could be wrong. This is just my opinion based on what I've read. My personal research involves nitric oxide regulation of glutamatergic pathways, so I can speak on agmatine.

Agmatine can regulate nitric oxide which can regulate glutamate, so in a roundabout way agmatine is related, but there are a lot of ifs in there. It's not going to hurt to use it, but I don't think it is necessary.

 

[MidniteGunner]

On another thread some one said that long term use of daa could adversely affect prolactin. I don't what this means just throwning it out there.

 

[MidniteGunner]

I saw on another thread it was suggested that long term use of daa could adversely affect prolactin. Don't know what this means just throwing it out there for those that might.

 

[MidniteGunner]

slightly retarded double post. Lol

 

[StackedCop]

My reasoning for wanting to take this for so long is because it saved me from having to be on HRT for the rest of my life. I was at 260 total test then started HRT for 3 months then decided to take a risk with supplements to see if I can maintain a normal T level for my age and the damn thing worked. I also stacked it with the good old tongkat. I know tongkat has to be cycled because there definitely is tolerance issues. But not sure about amino acids.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77124-non-steroid-trt.html

 

[DaJaP]

from what i've read, DAA can increase estrogen. With the increase in StAR, aromatase ouput rises, so i'd suggest taking an AI. i know i will be.

 

[BBB]

There are several bloods over at PHF on DAA cycles. DAA elevates T but it also elevates E2 as well. The problem from the bloods that I've seen is the T/E ratio while on DAA is adversely affected. Prolaction elevation long term is also a problem. Dr. H is running DAA continuously for a year and will be tracking blood parameters. A year is a long time to wait for a definitive answer to all of these issues.

 

[Outstanding]

So ongoing DAA administration seems to be fine in theory, as long as estrogen and prolactin are both monitored?

 

[StackedCop]

So ongoing DAA administration seems to be fine in theory, as long as estrogen and prolactin are both monitored?

So as long as there's no breast milk I'm good?

 

[MidniteGunner]

There are several bloods over at PHF on DAA cycles. DAA elevates T but it also elevates E2 as well. The problem from the bloods that I've seen is the T/E ratio while on DAA is adversely affected. Prolaction elevation long term is also a problem. Dr. H is running DAA continuously for a year and will be tracking blood parameters. A year is a long time to wait for a definitive answer to all of these issues.

I was told that you can counter prolactin with L-dopa

 

[Ev52]

I was told that you can counter prolactin with L-dopa

Correct and P5P works as well.

 

[Outstanding]

I was told that you can counter prolactin with L-dopa

My last Tren Acetate cycle I used P-5-P to counter Prolactin, this go 'round I'm using L-Dopa, seems to be working excellent thus far, but it's only been 2 weeks.

 

[StackedCop]

My last Tren Acetate cycle I used P-5-P to counter Prolactin, this go 'round I'm using L-Dopa, seems to be working excellent thus far, but it's only been 2 weeks.

How many grams Ldopa?

 

[HATEFULone]

I've used tcf-1 twice, once was the 12 on 12 off protocol. The other was a 36 day straight run. I noticed no difference between the two, results didn't diminish, and honestly I think you will be fine running it for longer periods of time, but just like people on trt, or even any non bodybuilding drugs like patients on statins, always monitor regular labs.