need some opinions

[ThER6KinG]

I got M-stak for free, so i was wondering if its worth taking, its non-hormonal which is nice. I dont wanna mess around with those, since the DAA ****ed with me already.

My main question is is there anything at all in M-stak that could lead to gyno or aggrivate it? i heard Fenugreek can make nipples puffy?

 

[zwilliby]

I'm not sure if we are talking about different things...but Universal Nutrition Animal M-stak does not contain fenugreek. And it will not cause gyno, as it is non-hormonal.

Furthermore, testosterone boosters and Animal Pump as an example do not contain "fenugreek". They contain fenugreek extract which is totally different. Fenugreek itself can cause gyno, but fenugreek extract (testofen) will not cause gyno.

In short. Take it. Have fun. Get gains. Post up a review when you are done.

 

[ThER6KinG]

thats what it says on the listing
Insulin Potentiating Complex 500mg
4-Hydroxyisoleucine (fenugreek) *
Banaba Leaf Extract (1-3% Colosolic Acid) *

cant tell if its an extract or actual fenugreek, everything else looks awesome except that

 

[zwilliby]

Yes...4-Hydroxyisoleucine is fenugreek extract. So nothing to worry about. They don't put actual fenugreek in these supplements.

 

[ThER6KinG]

thank god! lol thank you for the help man :] appreciate it

 

[zwilliby]

Not a problem brother . Good luck with the product.

 

[monstermash]

Not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure an extract will have some fenugreek with it since it's usually only a % of 4-OH, like 40% 4-hydroxyisoleucine. I know Dsade is working on a synthetic 100% 4-Hydroxyisoleucine that won't have any fenugreek in it. Animal doesn't tell you the extract percent so who knows how much fenugreek is in it.

I have had some itchy/puffy nip issues w/ extracts before. this includes ones extracted for 4-OH and fenusides.

 

[zwilliby]

Well yes fenugreek extract is still fenugreek. But it isnt the whole fenugreek "seed". And fenugreek extract is mainly used for its insulin secretion and loading of carbs.. properties which would make sense in its inclusion in this supp.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but fenugreek extract doesn't have the same effect as the fenugreek seed in its entirety. Everybody knows chicks take fenugreek to improve lactation and crap....but 4-HO is totally different as i understand. Diabetics use it, and its really common in supps too. Because its common im not saying its good......

But i would bet you my house that you wouldn't get gyno from taking a product like m-stak or just about any product with fenugreek extract in it.

monstermash, what supps did you take to give you the puffy nips?

I had gyno..got surgery about 10 weeks ago for it. But i got it from a PH..and i've been taking Animal Pump (has fenugreek extract in it) for over a year and have had no effects that made my previous case of gyno worse.

 

[monstermash]

Well yes fenugreek extract is still fenugreek. But it isnt the whole fenugreek "seed". And fenugreek extract is mainly used for its insulin secretion and loading of carbs.. properties which would make sense in its inclusion in this supp.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but fenugreek extract doesn't have the same effect as the fenugreek seed in its entirety. Everybody knows chicks take fenugreek to improve lactation and crap....but 4-HO is totally different as i understand. Diabetics use it, and its really common in supps too. Because its common im not saying its good......

But i would bet you my house that you wouldn't get gyno from taking a product like m-stak or just about any product with fenugreek extract in it.

monstermash, what supps did you take to give you the puffy nips?

I had gyno..got surgery about 10 weeks ago for it. But i got it from a PH..and i've been taking Animal Pump (has fenugreek extract in it) for over a year and have had no effects that made my previous case of gyno worse.

the 4-OH is good stuff, it's the rest that comes with it that's no good for me.

OP asked if anything in it could "could lead to gyno or aggrivate it?" which leed me to beleive he might have a minor case already. I'm not saying Fengreek extract will cause gyno but it did aggravate mine ( I have small, tiny spot under left nip from past cycle).

Even though it's extracted for 4-OH it still carries a pretty full spectrum of the plants other actives. Dsade is synthesizing a pure 4-OH product because of this. He could definitely explain the science behind this a lot better than me. i'll see if i can find a link to the thread where he talked about this.

 

[monstermash]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/genomyx/168299-stacking-glycobol-w.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/genomyx/167782-slin-sane-r.html

These are the only two i could find where he mentions it but it doesn't say anything about what's in the rest of the extracted powder...

 

[monstermash]

monstermash, what supps did you take to give you the puffy nips?

I've ran multiple successful cycles in my years of weightlifting/bodybuilding but I ran a compound (that will remain nameless) that was advertised as "very mild" and "low doses don't require pct..." and you can geuss what happened haha everyone falls prey to advertising now and then.

Now that i have a small case of gyno certain extracts and herbals irritate it and make my nips puffy. Some include fenugreek and it's extracts, trib, and cissus. Which sucks cause when I run cissus at high doses i have great workouts and recomp effects, now I can only run at low doses while I rehab joint injuries and such.

 

[ThER6KinG]

hmm interesting, i had puffy irritated nipples from DAA, so i didnt wanna go thru is again. i have another appoinment to see if it is gyno or just fat, but im going to do a cycle of traizole i heard it shrinks gyno, then use m-stak :]

 

[ThER6KinG]

cant i just take the tab containing the fenugreek out of the stack?

 

[monstermash]

hmm interesting, i had puffy irritated nipples from DAA, so i didnt wanna go thru is again. i have another appoinment to see if it is gyno or just fat, but im going to do a cycle of traizole i heard it shrinks gyno, then use m-stak :]

cant i just take the tab containing the fenugreek out of the stack?

Yeah IMO DAA should be ran with an AI to prevent the puffy nips. Do you ave a lump? id they get itchy or painful (like hurt like hell when your shirt moves over the nip?)? If not, you probably dont have gyno just had a close call.


What is your body fat level?

 

[zwilliby]

I've ran multiple successful cycles in my years of weightlifting/bodybuilding but I ran a compound (that will remain nameless) that was advertised as "very mild" and "low doses don't require pct..." and you can geuss what happened haha everyone falls prey to advertising now and then.

Now that i have a small case of gyno certain extracts and herbals irritate it and make my nips puffy. Some include fenugreek and it's extracts, trib, and cissus. Which sucks cause when I run cissus at high doses i have great workouts and recomp effects, now I can only run at low doses while I rehab joint injuries and such.

Those damn buggers with their disclaimers....sorry you had to go through that. I had full blown gyno myself and it is no fun. I've had problems with tendonitis in my shoulder and back pain. It's like the bodybuilding gods don't love me or something. They must not love you either haha.

 

[zwilliby]

hmm interesting, i had puffy irritated nipples from DAA, so i didnt wanna go thru is again. i have another appoinment to see if it is gyno or just fat, but im going to do a cycle of traizole i heard it shrinks gyno, then use m-stak :]

Yea buddy! I've got a bottle of TZ laying around as well. I'm doing a log for LIT up and then taking that. I think we will both have good results. TZ lowers estro and increases test which is good.

If you want something that just decreases estrogen then you want to buy a bottle of ERASE. It's dose dependent and you can greatly reduce your estro levels to the point of nonexistence (not recommended, just saying). ERASE has shown to decrease gyno too.

If the gyno you have is mainly fatty tissue then any cutting supp will help too. Like Lean Xtreme or Alpha t2

 

[zwilliby]

cant i just take the tab containing the fenugreek out of the stack?

You could, im not sure how you would know which one. The stim pill is usually the red pill. As far as the rest, you would have to call Universal Nutrition. Chances are the fenugreek extract is part of something integral to the m-stak....as UN products are designed with the aspect of "synergy" in mind. It might make the stak less powerful, but if it gives you peace of mind, thats priceless.

 

[ThER6KinG]

yeah ill call them up, and no pain at all, itches once in a while and im bulking so bf % is higher than usual i usually have nice abs i have none now haha, but i gained 9 pounds so far. im 178 now. so its most likely some fat :/ and no lump under the nipple a little lump maybe the size of pencil eraser to the right of my nipple but its been there forever an hasnt gotten bigger

 

[zwilliby]

yeah ill call them up, and no pain at all, itches once in a while and im bulking so bf % is higher than usual i usually have nice abs i have none now haha, but i gained 9 pounds so far. im 178 now. so its most likely some fat :/ and no lump under the nipple a little lump maybe the size of pencil eraser to the right of my nipple but its been there forever an hasnt gotten bigger

9 pounds is good as long as its not just water weight from creatine or something. I think you should try reversitol or Erase if TZ doesn't work for you and you might be able to get rid of that.

 

[ThER6KinG]

hey guys, i was just wondering is it bad to take p5p even if your prolactin isnt high?

 

[monstermash]

hey guys, i was just wondering is it bad to take p5p even if your prolactin isnt high?

P5P is fine to take, it's in ZMK by Millenium sports. Just don't go over the recommended daily dose, B6 is toxic at high doses.