Do I need to cycle Melatonin?

[Whacked]

Finally, something that works for me for sleep!!

Do I have to cycle this stuff of take 1-2 days off per week?

I'm in my 40's

 

[sarguy]

I work as a sleep tech, and I've never heard of any recommendations for cycling melatonin as far as sleep is concerned.

 

[Whacked]

HOLY COW man, your experience will lend itself invaluably here on these boards. I would GUESS that up to 50% of the members here have sleep issues!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you can write a comprehensive intelligent "from my experience" type post/thread hinting at ALL things thast actually work for all of us. That would be HUGE

 

[sarguy]

Really?

 

[Whacked]

Dead serious. We all have sleep issues around here! LOL

No clue what the relationship is between bb'ers and sleep issues but there is certainly SOMETHING to it!

 

[sarguy]

Ok then! You'll have to pardon my suspicion; some of the other boards I'm on are loaded with sarcastic a-holes. I would be glad to start delving into some of the popular sleep aides and trends in sleep health. As far as "my experience" with things, sleep is so darn subjective, what works for some people may not work for others.

 

[Whacked]

Zero sarcasm, 100% desperation

Thanks!

 

[sarguy]

Hope I can help. For starters, do you snore? What are your bedroom conditions, time of sleep/wake, pre-bed diet, and supplementation like?

Melatoin, btw, is a hormone secreted by the pineal gland,and constant exposure to light has been found to decrease production of melatonin. Which, of course means, that spending time in bright light prior to bed is counterproductive as far as sleep is concerned. Behaviorially, dimming the lights in the evening and avoiding tv and computer screens before bed might help increase melatonin secretion (I think). If they fail to actually boost melatonin levels, I do know that the above mentioned light sources contain wavelengths of light that are actually alerting in nature, which is exactly what you don't want for good sleep. Sleeping/ falling asleep with the tv on is not advised, obviously. A book is your best friend if you're dying for pre-bed entertainment.

Oh, and some other questions: What do you do for a living? Do you sleep alone or w/ a partner? Pets? Allergies? Bedroom location?

 

[JN230]

Hope I can help. For starters, do you snore? What are your bedroom conditions, time of sleep/wake, pre-bed diet, and supplementation like?

Melatoin, btw, is a hormone secreted by the pineal gland,and constant exposure to light has been found to decrease production of melatonin. Which, of course means, that spending time in bright light prior to bed is counterproductive as far as sleep is concerned. Behaviorially, dimming the lights in the evening and avoiding tv and computer screens before bed might help increase melatonin secretion (I think). If they fail to actually boost melatonin levels, I do know that the above mentioned light sources contain wavelengths of light that are actually alerting in nature, which is exactly what you don't want for good sleep. Sleeping/ falling asleep with the tv on is not advised, obviously. A book is your best friend if you're dying for pre-bed entertainment.

Oh, and some other questions: What do you do for a living? Do you sleep alone or w/ a partner? Pets? Allergies? Bedroom location?

ahhh the man i needed to talk to... i have a 7yr old that lives 50% of the time with us, he is scared of the dark obviously and is getting his own rom again for the first time in a few months, he is very used to snuggling with his mom at night when he stays over. we have a body pillow that was his moms so it smells like her, we gave that to him hoping it wil feel like he is cuddling with her, also we put in a night light but it isnt very bright for him, right now he sleeps with teh bathroom light on which is 2 CFL around 100W each, and is about 6ft from his head, and around a corner so it isnt too bright, we have a standing lamp that has a flexible lamp on it as well, we were thinking of leaving the flexible lamp on shinning in his closet which faces away from him, what type of light bulb is best for making him not scared of the dark but wont interfere with his hormones for sleep.

also opinions on Calms Forte 4kids?
you are a savior man, seriously id say 90% of americans have sleep problems. my dad has sleep apnea knows it but wont treat it! grrawh!!!!

 

[sarguy]

I just got home from class and need to catch some sleep myself before I work tonight @ sleep lab. I'll look into the calms forte and some of the other above mentioned issues tonight.

*disclaimer, I'm not a doc, just an individual working the field of sleep medicine. Anything I say isn't formal medical advice, just my interpretation of the professional literature and my own crazy machinations.

 

[Whacked]

Thanks for the disclaimer.

Still, we are all looking forward to your input

 

[sarguy]

ahhh the man i needed to talk to... i have a 7yr old that lives 50% of the time with us, he is scared of the dark obviously and is getting his own rom again for the first time in a few months, he is very used to snuggling with his mom at night when he stays over. we have a body pillow that was his moms so it smells like her, we gave that to him hoping it wil feel like he is cuddling with her, also we put in a night light but it isnt very bright for him, right now he sleeps with teh bathroom light on which is 2 CFL around 100W each, and is about 6ft from his head, and around a corner so it isnt too bright, we have a standing lamp that has a flexible lamp on it as well, we were thinking of leaving the flexible lamp on shinning in his closet which faces away from him, what type of light bulb is best for making him not scared of the dark but wont interfere with his hormones for sleep.

also opinions on Calms Forte 4kids?
you are a savior man, seriously id say 90% of americans have sleep problems. my dad has sleep apnea knows it but wont treat it! grrawh!!!!

As for the nightlights, that is a pretty bright source of light, even indirectly. You might try a nightlight in a soft yellow, orange, or red, or even one of those kid's doo-dads (there's a sophisticated medical term) that cycles between several colors. I wonder if the repetition of the color cycle may actually help him sleep.

I looked into the calms forte. I nearly stopped when the word "homeopathic" came up. Not to turn this into a debate on the effectiveness of homeopathy, but I'm NOT a fan of it. Waste of money IMHO, but I don't think it will harm your child to try it, assuming they have no existing allergies to anything in the pills. There is at least one RCT I am aware of using small (0.05mg/kg) doses of melatonin in kids with some success, but I would be leery of starting kids on that without physician evaluation and the use of other behavioral modalities first.

Generally speaking, healthy kids probably don't have physiologic reason for insomnia. Rather, they are associated with psychological things ranging from pushing boundaries to the above-mentioned changing environments and separation from familiar sleep triggers.
Does Junior have an established bed-time routine? A nightly ritual consisting of the same events over and over can actually help initiate sleep. For instance: bath time, reading, and then bed. I'd avoid tv for the last hour prior to bed, and if he has one in his room, it's gotta go.
Back to that nightly routine. A lot of insomnia issues in kids, like I mentioned, are behavioral in nature, and seem to respond to behavioral interventions. In actuality, the nightly administration of a "sleeping pill" is not unlike other behavioral interventions, especially if the pill actually has no effect other than placebo.

I'm not a parent yet, and although I know that kids can be a bear to fight with when it comes to bedtime, the establishment of a regular bed time (hint: 10pm is way too late) helps to regulate the kids' circadian rhythm, and after the break-in period, it's much easier to initiate sleep in a timely manner, not to mention make waking up in the morning easier. Sleep deprivation in kids has also been linked to ADHD and obesity, and that's just what we're beginning to find out.

Hopefully my rantings make a bit of sense. In short, avoid the pills, find a softer light that's not white or blue, and establish a bedtime routine. Consult a physician if insomnia continues or if Junior snores horribly.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

This thread can turn legendary, real fast.

I snore and have sometimes found myself waking up due to my own snoring (as I'm falling asleep, not while I'm in deep sleep). My GF tells me that when I fall asleep I always snore, then I'll like choke on my own breath, and stop snoring for awhile.

I always have a dry mouth when I wakeup and always find myself breathing through my mouth.

Do I have sleep apnea? My neck is also 18".

 

[sarguy]

This thread can turn legendary, real fast.

I snore and have sometimes found myself waking up due to my own snoring (as I'm falling asleep, not while I'm in deep sleep). My GF tells me that when I fall asleep I always snore, then I'll like choke on my own breath, and stop snoring for awhile.

I always have a dry mouth when I wakeup and always find myself breathing through my mouth.

Do I have sleep apnea? My neck is also 18".

I'd be willing to put money it.

A thick neck like yours+witnessed apnea+snoring*= sleep study, dude. It could save your life, as untreated sleep apnea can lead to high blood pressure, stroke, heart attack and (shudder) IMPOTENCE due to constantly disturbing the levels of Test that are normally supposed to increase throughout the night as we sleep. That's right, sleep apnea messes w/ our test levels!

I have sleep apnea and wear a CPAP device to treat it. I swear I'd kill anyone who tried to take it from me. I had no clue I was so tired until after I started getting decent sleep.

*If you do happen to be a "Big Black Guy" in real life, I should also mention that African-Americans have an increased risk of sleep apnea 2ndary to craniofacial structure.

 

[Whacked]

yup!! lolol

sarguy-we love u :biggthumpup:

This thread can turn legendary, real fast.

 

[Whacked]

How in the heck did you ever get used to sleeping with that CPAP?

 

[JN230]

As for the nightlights, that is a pretty bright source of light, even indirectly. You might try a nightlight in a soft yellow, orange, or red, or even one of those kid's doo-dads (there's a sophisticated medical term) that cycles between several colors. I wonder if the repetition of the color cycle may actually help him sleep.

I looked into the calms forte. I nearly stopped when the word "homeopathic" came up. Not to turn this into a debate on the effectiveness of homeopathy, but I'm NOT a fan of it. Waste of money IMHO, but I don't think it will harm your child to try it, assuming they have no existing allergies to anything in the pills. There is at least one RCT I am aware of using small (0.05mg/kg) doses of melatonin in kids with some success, but I would be leery of starting kids on that without physician evaluation and the use of other behavioral modalities first.

Generally speaking, healthy kids probably don't have physiologic reason for insomnia. Rather, they are associated with psychological things ranging from pushing boundaries to the above-mentioned changing environments and separation from familiar sleep triggers.
Does Junior have an established bed-time routine? A nightly ritual consisting of the same events over and over can actually help initiate sleep. For instance: bath time, reading, and then bed. I'd avoid tv for the last hour prior to bed, and if he has one in his room, it's gotta go.
Back to that nightly routine. A lot of insomnia issues in kids, like I mentioned, are behavioral in nature, and seem to respond to behavioral interventions. In actuality, the nightly administration of a "sleeping pill" is not unlike other behavioral interventions, especially if the pill actually has no effect other than placebo. completely agreed, yes he has a bed time with us but no routine yet as i dont sleep over the nights he is home but we have a routine planned, basically story-time/cuddle time with mom while i shower at 830 everynight, then sleep at 845, he has a tv but hasnt even turned it on yet as its new to his room in the new house, and yes it is psychological for sure, jsut trying to avoid his crappy sleeping habits from messing up girlfriends and my sleeping habits as much as possible as sleep is very important to us both and we know that

I'm not a parent yet, and although I know that kids can be a bear to fight with when it comes to bedtime, the establishment of a regular bed time (hint: 10pm is way too late) helps to regulate the kids' circadian rhythm, and after the break-in period, it's much easier to initiate sleep in a timely manner, not to mention make waking up in the morning easier. Sleep deprivation in kids has also been linked to ADHD and obesity, and that's just what we're beginning to find out.

Hopefully my rantings make a bit of sense. In short, avoid the pills, find a softer light that's not white or blue, and establish a bedtime routine. Consult a physician if insomnia continues or if Junior snores horribly.

see the bold above as well as below...

i cant do a softer light as he'll be scared of the dark still thats my main issue....he has no insomnia its just he wants his mom and he needs to adjsut i was hoping to make the adjustment easier as i know its going to take a few months, but i dont want to throw our lives away for a few months if we dont have too.. y a know?

 

[Athletix]

Good thread, sleep hygiene is definitely key and sarguy has laid out the perfect groundwork, good job man.

Another thing to note is that there have been countless studies on melatonin, there is even a melatonin derivative on the pharmaceutical market now called ramelteon (rozerem), but most people take more than they need to. It is actually a pretty potent antioxidant but being in the medical field I always tell people that the lowest effective dose is the best, your body is incredible good at setting a new homeostatic set point. You only need about 600mcg (0.6mg) or less to get the same effect as 3mg. So honestly you could cut it into halves or quarters or buy the 1mg tablets.

Another good thing is to workout in the morning instead of evening if you can, it is hard to sleep in a hyper-inflammatory state with catecholamines such as adrenalin on the rise. You can try reading a book to help you and if you try sleeping and can't sleep, get up, go do something downstairs for a short bit and come back up and try sleeping again. Only use the bedroom for sleep and sex, don't use it for watching TV or other things as your body associates that incorrectly.

Good luck!

 

[sarguy]

How in the heck did you ever get used to sleeping with that CPAP?

It took me almost 3 months, but the newer masks are much more comfortable, IMHO. I was 22 when I was diagnosed, and was pretty resistant due to thinking the mask would be not "teh hawtness" for the ladies. I only persisted due to a a strong cardiac history in my family. Everything else was secondary at that point.

I was only getting a few hours a night before I'd take it off in my sleep, so I figured it wasn't working. Then I left town and didn't take my cpap with me. Sleeping without the mask, even though I was only getting maybe 3 hours of good sleep a night while using the mask, returned me to a state of feeling like hammered sh!t. I seriously had an "ah-ha" moment and realized that I was so tired for so long, I had no clue just how tired I was until I went back to feeling that way.

Nowadays, some drs will recommend that you wear the mask (just the mask) while doing other non-sleep activities. This helps your nerves habituate to it just like we do w/ glasses or a watch. Some docs also prescribe a few nights of low-dose ambien to help people get over the initial hump of sleeping w/ the mask.

 

[sarguy]

see the bold above as well as below...

i cant do a softer light as he'll be scared of the dark still thats my main issue....he has no insomnia its just he wants his mom and he needs to adjsut i was hoping to make the adjustment easier as i know its going to take a few months, but i dont want to throw our lives away for a few months if we dont have too.. y a know?

I certainly understand. My first thought is to keep up the bedtime routine and implement small, incremental changes over a couple of months.
1. Make sure the bulb is a warm color, not stark white, or blue/white/ "daylight" spectrum lights. Go w/ incandescent bulbs for this (this is important later).
2. Go ahead and get some sort of night-light anyway, and place it in the room. At this point, I'd have both the bright light on, as well as the night light.
3. Consider some age appropriate books about being afraid of the dark. I recall having a book about Franklin, a turtle who was so afraid of the dark, he was afraid to be inside his own shell. Not that we need to clobber the kid over the head with literature stating, "you don't need a bright light to sleep"; perhaps a different slant might help.
4. Switch the bright light to a lamp with a rheostat/dimmer or buy one to put on the desk lamp. After he's used to the new color bulb, gradually dim the light over the course of a few weeks. I wouldn't even mention it to him, and try to make the dimming so subtle that he doesn't notice. Hopefully a gradual shift will make the adoption of a softer light more palatable.

5. Another option to consider is giving him a flashlight to use in concert with a softer night light instead of having the really bright light illuminating his entire room. This would give him a "weapon" to use against the dark, so to speak.

 

[Whacked]

SOLID advice. Theses certainly assist those with minor sleep issues.

Poor folks like me are already doing that and more and still suffer horridly.

ood
Another good thing is to workout in the morning instead of evening if you can, it is hard to sleep in a hyper-inflammatory state with catecholamines such as adrenalin on the rise. You can try reading a book to help you and if you try sleeping and can't sleep, get up, go do something downstairs for a short bit and come back up and try sleeping again. Only use the bedroom for sleep and sex, don't use it for watching TV or other things as your body associates that incorrectly.

Good luck!

 

[Whacked]

and was pretty resistant due to thinking the mask would be not "the hawtness" for the ladies.

LOL :biggthumpup:

 

[Whacked]

SARGUY:

How do you test the cardiac risk factors that are specific for sleep related disorders? Specifically, what is done, what tests are ordered?

My blood tests and cardia enzymes come back normal. BUT I am not certain I requested the correct tests as I always simply do basic heart health blood studies along with my other interests (kidney, liver, lipid profile and prostate).

 

[sarguy]

SARGUY:

How do you test the cardiac risk factors that are specific for sleep related disorders? Specifically, what is done, what tests are ordered?

My blood tests and cardia enzymes come back normal. BUT I am not certain I requested the correct tests as I always simply do basic heart health blood studies along with my other interests (kidney, liver, lipid profile and prostate).

Good question. As a sleep tech, I do the sleep studies, but I don't do much else. The risk factors I mentioned above come from data extracted from large-scale studies, such as the "sleep-heart-health" study, in which researchers monitored a population of patients for quite some time after offering free sleep studies to participants. Some participants were positive for sleep apnea and complied w/ CPAP treatment, others did not. Morbidity/mortality rates in the groups were compiled after several years and drew a strong link between untreated SDB (sleep disordered breathing) and strokes, MIs, and other rather unpleasant outcomes.

Unfortunately to date, there is no blood test to determine a specific risk factor associated w/ sleep apnea; things like cardiac CRP levels can be elevated for any number of reasons, and sleep apnea may or may not be a direct cause. Evaluation for possible sleep apnea is done via patient interview, sleep diaries and self-reported surveys like the Epworth and Stanford Sleep quality surveys (and another that I'm not albe to recall at the moment due to lack of sleep). Patient necks are measured and airways are observed, as thick necks, large tongues, and high, arched palates are all physiognometric indicators of sleep apnea.

Basically, if a person is worried about having sleep apnea, they can request an eval by a sleep dr, then have a sleep study, where we will monitor brainwaves, sleep quality, breathing (or lack thereof), and determine if there is some form of sleep disordered breathing.

Hope that answered your question.

 

[eatingisfun]

HOLY COW man, your experience will lend itself invaluably here on these boards. I would GUESS that up to 50% of the members here have sleep issues!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you can write a comprehensive intelligent "from my experience" type post/thread hinting at ALL things thast actually work for all of us. That would be HUGE

That's because a bunch of people are taking in high amounts of stimulants in PWOs that then screws up their sleep.

 

[Whacked]

Yes sir. Thanks!

Hope that answered your question.

Certainly true for some, but not definitely for all.

That's because a bunch of people are taking in high amounts of stimulants in PWOs that then screws up their sleep.

 

[StackedCop]

I wish I would have opened this thread the other day! Great stuff!!!

 

[Whacked]

SC: Haha Good to see ya brother

 

[StackedCop]

SC: Haha Good to see ya brother

Ditto thanks for making this thread! I mean who woulda thought a freaking sleep doctor would have commented lol

FYI I'm a none sleeping mother fuc*er! Rotating shifts weekly is a major pain in the as$.

 

[Whacked]

Ditto Ditto Ditto. Problems out the wazoo for me too. Oh well, gotta figure this crap out dang it!

 

[StackedCop]

Ditto Ditto Ditto. Problems out the wazoo for me too. Oh well, gotta figure this crap out dang it!

Indeed.. If you'll excuse me I have some reading to do lol

 

[JN230]

I certainly understand. My first thought is to keep up the bedtime routine and implement small, incremental changes over a couple of months.
1. Make sure the bulb is a warm color, not stark white, or blue/white/ "daylight" spectrum lights. Go w/ incandescent bulbs for this (this is important later).
2. Go ahead and get some sort of night-light anyway, and place it in the room. At this point, I'd have both the bright light on, as well as the night light.
3. Consider some age appropriate books about being afraid of the dark. I recall having a book about Franklin, a turtle who was so afraid of the dark, he was afraid to be inside his own shell. Not that we need to clobber the kid over the head with literature stating, "you don't need a bright light to sleep"; perhaps a different slant might help.
4. Switch the bright light to a lamp with a rheostat/dimmer or buy one to put on the desk lamp. After he's used to the new color bulb, gradually dim the light over the course of a few weeks. I wouldn't even mention it to him, and try to make the dimming so subtle that he doesn't notice. Hopefully a gradual shift will make the adoption of a softer light more palatable.

5. Another option to consider is giving him a flashlight to use in concert with a softer night light instead of having the really bright light illuminating his entire room. This would give him a "weapon" to use against the dark, so to speak.

holy crap you are a genius!!!!! my Gf loves that i get to talk to you about this and Frank too....

 

[sarguy]

Ditto Ditto Ditto. Problems out the wazoo for me too. Oh well, gotta figure this crap out dang it!

What's your sleep/wake schedule like? Pre-bed habits? Snoring? Creepy,crawly legs around bed time? stimulant timing? Bedroom evironment (light or dark, warm or cold)?

 

[Whacked]

Background
5'11 220-225 (in my 40's)
Low body fat (12%)
Zero snoring
Zero leg cramps/restless legs
Weight Train and Cardio
Stims at 6 AM only (upon rising) and train at 6:30 AM (M-Sat)
Work from 9-6pm M-F
Higher Protein/Lower Carb/Moderate Fat diet (no carbs past 6pm)
Diet: Excellent/Clean (tons of greens and anti-oxidants)

Sleep Schedule
Eat Final Meal at 8pm (2 hours pre-bed)
Get off Computer by 8pm
Watch "boring news" TV or read a book until 10pm
Go to bed at 10pm like clock-work
Usually tired, but have a hard time "passing out", If I do, it takes 30-45 minutes.
Also, if/when I do fall asleep, I wake up 3-5x thru the night
Most of the time I fall right back to sleep (15 minutes?), some times I do not.

Sleep Schedule/Hygeine
Totally blacked out room
Thermostat set to 60 degrees!
Shower at 7pm so I go to bed clean
White Noise Machine on low (blocks out noise)
Significant Other sleeps in another bed at night so no issues there.

Misc Notes
Tried Hypnotic + Meditation audio CD (all garbage!)
Tried HGH several times both in the AM and PM, both made my ability to fall asleep worse!

Supps I've tried
Melatonin: NON-time released versions: Sucked/Useless

Melatonin TIME RELEASED: 3 mg's seem to help. Certainly not a cure for me!

Now Foods Brand Night Time Herbs works well to assist me in falling asleep but I always wake up 2 hours later, so kind of counter productive (Valerian Root, Passion Flower, Hops)

L-Trytophan: useless for me (even in high doses)
Theanine: Does nothing to me, I can eat the whole bottle + my body laughs at it

Gaba & Phenibut: Both made me wired/wide awake!

USPLab's PowerFULL worked great for deep sleep for a year and then became useless
(http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/usplabs/powerfull-new-90-caps.html)
***Never had sleep issues before I started to use this stuff. I feel this wrecked something in me!

Drugs
My emergency go to drug is Benedryl and Nyquil. These work great for me with zero hangover; BUT, these are drugs, so I cannot use them regularly (unsafe). I probably "need" to pop these 3x/week on nights where I am still staring at the ceiling at midnight.

 

[RoadBlocK]

Interesting stuff.

 

[sarguy]

@whacked

Hmmm...when you wake up during the night, do you find yourself short of breath at all?
Do you ever have issues "shutting your mind off"? Is the bed a decent bed, or is it uncomfortable?
Again, I'm no doctor, but my suspicion is leaning towards primary insomnia, which basically means there's a perfect storm of what's going on in your head, circadian rhythm, and body that ends up messing you over, especially if we begin worrying about the sleep we're not going to get (I've managed to do this very thing). Things such as ambien can work in the short term, but we worry about dependence. Do you have a history of shift work, or a family history of insomnia?

If it was me, I'd experiment by rising a bit earlier than normal, just to see if we can't adjust your circadian phase forward some. A (more effective, imho) way to adjust the circadian rhythm is to stay up later and later each night, rising later and later each day, until you've gone all the way around the clock. The problem is, that takes at least 3-4 days to do that.

Another thing I noticed is that you restrict your carbs after 6. A lot of people have reported poor-quality sleep 2nd to initiating a low carb diet. You might try adding some carbs in your last meal, just for a week or so, and see how it makes you feel.

Would you consider yourself a "clock watcher"?

There's a couple of devices out there, one of which is called the "nightwave" that uses pulses of blue (which I thought would be problematic) light to sync breathing, and another that uses a beam of light shined on the ceiling which you follow with your eyes to induce the "slow rolling eye movements" that are characteristic of entering sleep. The name of the machine fails me at the moment, but it's available in the UK, has NHS approval (no easy task) and is apparently more effective than sleep meds.
(I actually have had luck telling patients who were having problems falling asleep to 'count sheep, and watch them jump over the fence', in order to get them to do the rolling, back-and-forth, eye movements. Seemed to work)

Overall, I'd start keeping a sleep diary as you make changes to see what's working and what's not. If it persists, you may want to see about having a sleep study or an appointment w/ physchologist to rule out other things.

 

[Whacked]

Incredibly invaluable info here. You rock man. Will respond in better detail later. Thanks

 

[Athletix]

SARGUY:

How do you test the cardiac risk factors that are specific for sleep related disorders? Specifically, what is done, what tests are ordered?

My blood tests and cardia enzymes come back normal. BUT I am not certain I requested the correct tests as I always simply do basic heart health blood studies along with my other interests (kidney, liver, lipid profile and prostate).

The cardiac enzymes are only going to be indicative of cardiac necrosis so that won't tell you much honestly. They do those sorts of test after an MI (heart attack) so unless there is that necrotic tissue there isn't much there. I am not a sleep expert, I am in the general medical field, not a specialty so there may be a more indicative enzyme marker they are looking for but none that I know of for the heart other than troponin and CKB.