BCAA ratios

[sapentia]

So if leucine is the only dietary protein that has the capacity to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, why do we need the other two , isoleucine and valine? Why would we not just supplement with leucine only for the purposes that we take BCAA's in the first place?

Leucine is the primary signaling amino acid for protein synthesis via MTOR.

Signaling Pathways Involved in Translational Control of Protein Synthesis in Skeletal Muscle by Leucine1
Joshua C. Anthony, Tracy G. Anthony, Scot R. Kimball and Leonard S. Jefferson2

Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey, PA 17033

2To whom correspondence should be addressed at The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, P.O. Box 850, Hershey, PA 17033. E-mail: jjefferson{at}psu.edu.

Numerous reports established that in skeletal muscle the indispensable branched-chain amino acid leucine is unique in its ability to initiate signal transduction pathways that modulate translation initiation. Oral administration of leucine stimulates protein synthesis in association with hyperphosphorylation of the translational repressor, eukaryotic initiation factor (eIF) 4E binding protein 1 (4E-BP1), resulting in enhanced availability of the mRNA cap-binding protein eIF4E, for binding eIF4G and forming the active eIF4F complex. In addition, leucine enhances phosphorylation of the 70-kDa ribosomal protein S6 kinase (S6K1). These results suggest that leucine upregulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by enhancing both the activity and synthesis of proteins involved in mRNA translation. The stimulatory effects of leucine on translation initiation are mediated in part through the protein kinase mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR), where both insulin signaling and leucine signaling converge to promote a maximal response.

I believe the threshold dose for leucine is around 2g. What about the other bcaa's though, valine and isoleucine? BCAA's also have another critical role regarding muscles; they serve as a primary energy source when glycogen levels are low. If you aren't taking any BCAA's and the muscle tissue is placed in this condition catabolism will take place in order to scavenge the amino acids which take part in the Glucose-Alanine cycle. During times of oxygen depletion when lactate is produced, alanine is also produced. Alanine is shuttled via the blood to the liver where it is converted to glucose. The original conversion of pyruvate to alanine requires amino acids with valine and isoleucine taking preference.

The glucose-alanine cycle is used primarily as a mechanism for skeletal muscle to eliminate nitrogen while replenishing its energy supply. Glucose oxidation produces pyruvate which can undergo transamination to alanine. This reaction is catalyzed by alanine transaminase, ALT (ALT used to be referred to a serum glutamate-pyruvate transaminase, SGPT). Additionally, during periods of fasting, skeletal muscle protein is degraded for the energy value of the amino acid carbons and alanine is a major amino acid in protein. The alanine then enters the blood stream and is transported to the liver. Within the liver alanine is converted back to pyruvate which is then a source of carbon atoms for gluconeogenesis. The newly formed glucose can then enter the blood for delivery back to the muscle. The amino group transported from the muscle to the liver in the form of alanine is converted to urea in the urea cycle and excreted. All 20 of the amino acids, excepting leucine and lysine, can be degraded to TCA cycle intermediates as discussed in the metabolism of amino acids. This allows the carbon skeletons of the amino acids to be converted to those in oxaloacetate and subsequently into pyruvate. The pyruvate thus formed can be utilized by the gluconeogenic pathway. When glycogen stores are depleted, in muscle during exertion and liver during fasting, catabolism of muscle proteins to amino acids contributes the major source of carbon for maintenance of blood glucose levels.

The bcaa's are exceptional in that they typically aren't affected by the liver and can pass directly to the muscle tissue where they are available to perform the above functions which prevents the body from scavenging its own muscle tissue to provide the needed amino acids.

This is an article (note all 4 pages) discussing bcaa's. Bodybuilding.com - BCAA Supplementation For Athletes! - Intensity Magazine

As for the original topic, I believe the higher ratios are due to the fact while some energy is needed (valine and isoleucine) that a couple grams of these is sufficient whereas a higher dose of leucine is desired for enhanced protein synthesis signaling purposes.

[jin]

Leucine is the primary signaling amino acid for protein synthesis via MTOR. ... I believe the threshold dose for leucine is around 2g. ... I believe the higher ratios are due to the fact while some energy is needed (valine and isoleucine) that a couple grams of these is sufficient whereas a higher dose of leucine is desired for enhanced protein synthesis signaling purposes.

exactly.

i buy 1 kg of scifit's strange 3:2.5:1 mix...
(it works, it is cheap, and it is available...)
and mix in 500grams straight leucine
yielding 1500grams of
960gr : 384 gr : 156 gr
giving a (roughly)
6:2.5:1 ratio

i toss 5 grams of that mix into WPH shakes
yielding roughly
3 grams : 1.5 grams : 0.5 grams

typically, in the a.m., before bed, and before/during/after exercise.

[Guest]

agreed xtend should be reformulated, and why dont these companies use instantized BCAA, the only one that mixes right is IBCAA>...... i have 1 scoops SPmax and 1 scoop modern bcaa in my shaker from this morning aroudn 9am and it STILL hasnt lost the foam wtf!!!!

We went against instantized because of the Soy used to emulsify the BCAAs...

The foam on Top is some Micronized Leucine..

[jin]

We went against instantized because of the Soy used to emulsify the BCAAs...

The foam on Top is some Micronized Leucine..

which pretty much means that if you add some lecithin to your bcaa drink,
and mix well,
then your bcaa's should go into solution.
right?
works for me.
loves me some lecithin...
non-gmo, organic.
good for the liver.

[adawg4929]

i would jsut use the 2:1:1 or 4:1:1 ratio has it seems to have the most positive feedback at this point in time. Aswell Luecine is generally a bit less expensive then the other BCAA's so by using more you can lower the price of the product, i would stick with 4:1:1 as 8:1:1 is just too much luecine in comaparison, IMO ofcourse.

[MrBigPR]

Whatever is cheapest lol..

[Guest]

which pretty much means that if you add some lecithin to your bcaa drink,
and mix well,
then your bcaa's should go into solution.
right?
works for me.
loves me some lecithin...
non-gmo, organic.
good for the liver.

It needs an emulsification process...

[jin]

It needs an emulsification process...

perhaps in a little counter-top mixer,
or with a hand mixing wand type of thing?
possibly with the addition of a tiny bit of coconut oil...
works for me!

[sapentia]

which pretty much means that if you add some lecithin to your bcaa drink,
and mix well,
then your bcaa's should go into solution.
right?
works for me.
loves me some lecithin...
non-gmo, organic.
good for the liver.

If you add a sufficient amount of citrulline malate it will help the bcaa's dissolve fully. If you look at the labels it is in many of the BCAA products being sold. I personally mix 2g cit. malate with 10g 8:1:1 BCAA's + some beta-alanine and stevia for preworkout. Post workout I take 10g BCAA's (same ratio) + 2g citr. malate + 15g PeptoPro + 1g Beta-Alanine + 2.5g creatine and some stevia for sweetness. Only downside is citrulline malate is twice as expensive as the BCAA's.

[jin]

hmmm.
malic acid maybe brings the bcaa's into solution?
i used to mix the bcaa's into water with lemon juice added,
and they mixed up pretty well...
i will have to try that again...
that would have been citric acid.
maybe most any oxidative organic acid will do the job...