Don't kill me for having used this....
01-31-2003 09:53 PM
Don't kill me for having used this....
I would like to share my experience(s) with a highly criticized supplement called 20-hydroxyecdysone. It was in the form of Pinnacle's Ecdybol Explocaps (again please dont kill me ). I used the "optimum dose" of 40mg/day (standard dose was 20mg/day).
A little info in 20-hydroxyecdysone:
Ecdysterone is also known as: 20-Hydroxyecdsyone; 20-HE; beta-Ecdysone; 2,3,14 ,20,22,25-Hexahydroxycholest-7-en-6-one. Its molecular formula is C27H44O7.
Ecdysterone is a plant-derived compound believed to work principally by increasing the number of protein-synthesizing 'workbenches', termed ribosomes, found in skeletal muscle. Anecdotal reports from those using the product, however, suggest alternative mechanisms of action may be involved. The stimulation of protein synthesis is by far the most important half of the muscle-building equation (the other being to reduce needless protein breakdown). Thus, bodybuilders and similarly-focused athletes use ecdysterone in an effort to accelerate the gains in muscle mass stimulated through weight-training. When combined with protein, ecdysterone, also known as 20-Hydroxyecdysone, has been clinically documented (Simakin, 1988) to increase muscle mass by up to 7% and reduce body fat by nearly 10% --without undesirable (e.g., androgenic) side effects. Note that the gains experienced with ecdysone disappear quickly upon cessation of use. Best results are achieved with continual administration. REFERENCES Simakin SY, Panyuskin SN, Portugalov LV et al. (1988). The combined use of ecdisten and the product Bodrost during training in cyclical types of sports. Scientific Sports Bulletin, No. 2.
So...now my experience:
my two friends and I used this supplement, each of us at the same dosage. I expected to gain a little muscle while using this, but there was another effect that I did not expect but had read about: lactic acid buffering. Yes you read that right. I found that after using this supplement for about 5-6 days I was able to increase the volume/intensity of my workouts, and my friends felt the change too. To quote my friend Mike, "Its like, even though you know you have worked the **** out of your muscles, you feel like you can go for more, I like this ****." I dont know why but that quote kinda stuck in my brain. And after about 3 weeks of usage my recovery between workouts was insanely quick, for example:
for 4 days straight my friend Mike and I did heavy sets of bench press (9-10 sets per day) in our weight training class, not only did both of our strenghts go WAY up but we were never sore once....but alas we ran out and well...we lost some strenght but hey, it was an experiment.
My overall take on this supplement is that it is a good supplement for those who want to experiment with different things, I loved it to tell you the truth.
the strenght that went up the most for me was my bench press: from 215 to 245 in 3 weeks..no bull****..I was stuck on 215 for a month and then I used 20-hydroxyecdysone and then I busted right through it.
but all this is just my opinion and experience
01-31-2003 10:29 PM
kilo sells this stuff in bulk. i'd be curious to see if shooting this or methoxy, or at least taking like 10-20g a day would make a difference.
i still think its bull**** in low oral doses
01-31-2003 11:43 PM
the effective dose is like 1-2g/day...
02-01-2003 04:29 AM
no need to apologize buddy. we dont judge someone who posts a review of a product (i dont care what product it happens to be) in a fashion where he gives a good brief summary of what the product targets and gives his or her experience with it. Good looks for sharing LG. Now, if some dude would happen to come up and start a thread by saying, "product X is the bomb man! its the new level of bodybuilding supplementation." then ya, he would need to apologize or get flamed brutally like a double whopper man....ha. Sage
02-01-2003 11:11 AM
I'm confused by these statements...
But you only did 40mg a day? Where did you disover the effective dose being 1-2g a day? Im not knocking brother, I just dont understand how you could have had results at 40mg a day when you need 1-2g to be effective? Good to hear you had some good results whether they were Placebo or not!! Originally posted by Lifeguard the effective dose is like 1-2g/day...
AnabolicEffects.com- the pursuit of the anabolic life.
02-01-2003 01:46 PM
I'm not promoting it, as I have never used any Edcy product, but everything I have read in studies and peoples personal testimonials is that you have to take a very high oral dose of at least 1 - 2 grams per day and that would make Syntrax's Syntrabol(200mg per cap) or Kilosports(bulk) the only cost effective Edcy supplement out there. That being said, I still don't know if the stuff works but I might add it after my heavy PH cycle ends and take it with 6-OXO and FUZU just to see what it does, if anything.
02-01-2003 01:54 PM
Definitely not a cost effective supp IMO, but maybe I'll try it sometime when I'm off cycle. I've also heard high doses should be used for good results, and I still wonder how much is placebo effect. All-in-all, if it gave you results and you're satisfied LG, than no one can say you wasted your $$ exactly.
02-01-2003 01:55 PM
Placebo effects can be great sometimes.
02-01-2003 03:37 PM
Originally posted by size Placebo effects can be great sometimes.
02-01-2003 04:25 PM
Re: I'm confused by these statements...
well...I read a study on dosing of this compound to Russian athletes (I think the study took place in like 1983 or something like that) in June or July of '02 saying that the effective dose was something like 3-5mg per kilogram of bodyweight... Originally posted by windwords7
But you only did 40mg a day? Where did you disover the effective dose being 1-2g a day? Im not knocking brother, I just dont understand how you could have had results at 40mg a day when you need 1-2g to be effective? Good to hear you had some good results whether they were Placebo or not!!
I used the compound in march/april of '02, so I did not posess the knowledge that I was taking a highly underdosed product at the time of my usage.
The only time that I felt a placebo effect was the first 3 or 4 days, because I was so excited that I had this product (I read a couple of studys on it in the month prior to buying it). But after those first few days passed I realized that this product was not intended for an energy boost or whatever the hell else I was "feeling" . So in the ensuing weeks of usage I just did my normal workout routine, ate the same amount of food, etc. The only change I did was when my friend Mike and I did heavy sets of bench press for our workout every day for 5 days (did I mention that we did not once experience the typical "soreness" of heavy/hard workouts while using 20-hydroxyecdysone?). Originally posted by size Placebo effect can be great sometimes
so...hey..maybe when I decide to try something really different I might just order this stuff bulk from Kilosports and go about 2-3g/day. who knows?? *shrug*
02-02-2003 02:53 PM
Back in 2001, I used Syntrabol by Syntrax at 2g. a day.. I don't think I gained much, I was dieting anyway.. But I do believe the lactic acid buffering effect, I did have more of a solid pump, not to the point where I'd cramp or just the soreness of DOMS... Originally posted by Lifeguard the effective dose is like 1-2g/day...
02-11-2003 12:46 PM
i think it should be a rule here that you cant dog a product unless you have used it. i have used ecdysterones and liked the results. i got stronger and recovered faster. the thing with ecdysterones is that there are different potencies that are out there. kind of like comparing trib. fuzu is way stonger than the original tribestan. this is the reason for differant suggested doses. syntrax must use a different source of ecdesterones to have to use 200 mg a dose, i have used thermolife's at 30mg a dose 3xa day with good results. it has its place in supplementation. possibly a bridge product. for people that want to avoid andros. or prior to a tested contest. i am currently using it during my cutting to help retain muscle and i feel it helps.
02-11-2003 01:18 PM
i personally love syntrabol from syntrax,i havent used it in a while for financial reasons..but according to syntrax there working on a stronger version,ie better delivery
02-11-2003 04:20 PM
could transdermal be possible? How large is the molecule?
02-11-2003 10:03 PM
big czt once told me that he tried it,in a thread where i aske d the same ?..hes said it didnt do anything for him..but thats only one opinion
02-13-2005 03:31 PM
Yes LG,I feel it,too,definatley.I use it for my endurance and faster recovery and now as it has been mentioned I did notice respectively:my sleep improved as well!
The dose should be something in mg/Kg BW.
Part of its action is due to a 6x better Nitrogen-assimilation of the Protein intake in order to get it into the muscle.
02-14-2005 12:09 PM
i used an ecdy product last year and although my weight did not increase, i did notice improvement in recovery and strength (not absolute weight, but increased ability to do more reps @ any given weight)
even on sale, the cost was prohibitive.
02-14-2005 06:26 PM
to be honest, i used syntrax sytrabol back in the day. i leaned up very nicely and got a lot stronger, probably recorded all my pr's on this stuff. however, didn't notice any muscle gain from it.
02-14-2005 09:16 PM
What stores can you get this stuff from? GNC or vitamin shop? I don't remember seeing it at either but I could be wrong. This stuff seems pretty interesting.
02-15-2005 04:22 PM
Suggested action on erythrozytes
Antioxidative and free radical scavenging effects of ecdysteroids from Serratula strangulata.
Cai YJ, Dai JQ, Fang JG, Ma LP, Hou LF, Yang L, Liu ZL.
National Laboratory of Applied Organic Chemistry, Lanzhou University, Lanzhou, Gansu 730000, China.
The antioxidative and free radical scavenging effects of four ecdysteroids, 20-hydroxyecdysone (E1), 25-deoxy-11,20-dihydroxyecdysone (E2), 24-(2-hydroxyethyl)-20-hydroxyecdysone (E3), and 20-hydroxyecdysone-20,22-monoacetonide (E4), isolated from the Chinese herb Serratula strangulata have been investigated in vitro. These ecdysteroids could protect human erythrocytes against oxidative hemolysis induced by a water-soluble azo initiator 2,2'-azobis(2-amidinopropane hydrochloride) (AAPH). They could also inhibit the peroxidation of rat liver microsomes induced by hydroxyl radicals, as monitored by the formation of thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS), and prevent radical-induced decrease of membrane fluidity as determined by fluorescence polarization. They reacted with galvinoxyl radicals in homogeneous solution, and the pseudo-first-order rate constants were determined spectrophotometrically by following the disappearance of galvinoxyl radicals. Compounds E1 and (or) E3 were the most active in both antioxidative and radical-scavenging reactions.
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