ZMA is totally ineffective?
- 12-09-2010, 06:21 AM
ZMA is totally ineffective?
Study: ZMA does not raise testosterone levels
but seems have mixed reviews!!!
- 12-09-2010, 07:31 AM
- 12-09-2010, 07:38 AM
Hmmmmm. Don't know what to say about that one. Anytime I have usedwith Arginine/Ornithine combo I wake up with morning wood. I've tried using just one of those afore mentioned, and no such wood. Sleep was also somewhat better, and recovery was a bit better. Can't say I noticed anything in the libido department though.
12-09-2010, 08:35 AM
12-09-2010, 02:39 PM
I didn't get a chance to read the study yet, but will here in like 5 mins. Just saw the thread and figured I'd post my results.
01-20-2011, 11:44 PM
01-21-2011, 10:00 AM
01-21-2011, 10:06 AM
guys what did you think about ZMK by Millennium Sport Technologies????
advanced nighttime Krebs chelated multi mineral formula
01-21-2011, 10:17 AM
I have personally used ZMK with EndoAmp and BCAAs and have bloods around here somewhere that show a good raise in testosterone... BUT, here is where things are a bit hazy, I was shut down for over a year and the compounds returned me to normal, rather than raising it higher.
People who train hardcore will become deficient in Zinc and that is where ZMA will help with test levels.
Personally i get a good effect from 50mg prebed. Increased load volume is always a plus in my book.
The Historic PES Legend
01-21-2011, 11:36 AM
01-21-2011, 11:39 AM
01-21-2011, 11:45 AM
Don't take Zinc and Magnesium because you want to raise your test. Take them because they are imperative co-factors for literally hundreds of enzymes.
Training depletes these minerals and, while taking won't raise your test above normal levels, it will keep your body functioning properly.
In preventing deficiency, you're maintaining your hormones at a healthy level. Let your zinc and mag levels drop off, and your test is gonna drop too.
01-21-2011, 11:46 AM
01-21-2011, 01:37 PM
Magnesium has very poor oral bioavailability. Transdermal is best.
MEGA Minerals (Zinc/Magnesium)
Oftentimes, our being caught up in the marketing hype of “ZMA” formulas to increase testosterone levels is what misleads the consumer to thinking these minerals have no application. This could NOT be a bigger misconception, especially during the post-cycle time frame. We will address zinc and magnesium one by one.
Magnesium Glycinate (Patent #4,830,716)
According to recent Hanes and Gallop surveys, at least 72% of all adult Americans fall short of the U.S. RDA for magnesium (bodybuilders whose nutrient tallies increase precipitously are the worst offenders). Serum (blood) magnesium levels are NOT an accurate test for total body stores of this mineral because magnesium is primarily a cellular mineral. Also, stress depletes this mineral rapidly. During the post-cycle time frame, the body experiences a significant stress load with its newfound exogenous extraction and anabolic depletion. Thus, supplementing magnesium is of DIRE concern for individuals going through PCT.
Magnesium is a catalyst for at least 30 organic functions. Some of its benefits include: protein synthesis, regulation of parathyroid hormone release which regulates bone calcification, cellular respiration, nerve transmission, prostaglandin synthesis, and cardiac muscle health.
Some of the most alarming magnesium deficiency symptoms which are rarely diagnosed by the medical profession relate to the following disorders: hypotension, hypertension, kidney stones, muscular weakness, neuromuscular irritability, hemolytic anemia, bronchial asthma, organic brain syndrome, migraine headaches, tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmia, myocardial infarction, edema, hyperkinetic behavior, insomnia, severe muscle pain, seizures, vertigo, chronic fatigue syndrome, diabetes, coarse muscle tremors, osteoporosis, psychiatric disorders, shortness of breath, and poor pulmonary function.
Those that like the “you can get enough magnesium from diet alone” proponents are very far off! This is in addition to most supplemental magnesium coming in oxide, aspartate, sulfate, or hydrochloride forms which can cause diarrhea and abdominal cramps among sensitive individuals. This is further compounded by combining magnesium with other minerals – NAMELY calcium WHICH IMPEDES the absorption of magnesium in these forms, yet most formulas boast combos of these two vital minerals in some way, shape, or form. Magnesium glycinate, on the other hand, is a patented (U.S. Patent #4,830,716) revolutionary process of chelating magnesium to glycine so that magnesium is absorbed like an amino acid. It is so well absorbed that it is NOT dependent on stomach acid or diet. It is released easily into the target organs for higher absorption and nutrient density.
An essential nutrient and a catalyst for over 30 bodily functions. Zinc deficiency plays a major role in the following health conditions: acne, anorexia nervosa, delayed sexual response, growth impairment, hair loss, fatigue, memory loss, macular degeneration, high LDL cholesterol, poor appetite control, impaired night vision, impotence, infertility, acuity of taste and smell, poor protein synthesis, increased susceptibility to infection, skin lesions, propensity for diabetes, prostate enlargement (see below), recurrent colds and flu, and slow wound healing. Major food sources for zinc are fish, shellfish (be careful here, however as shellfish remain a major source of iodine as well and this can be a real concern for acne sufferers – especially in PCT time frame – this is the one food association that has been supported by research), meat, eggs, soy (though I don’t encourage the use of this in PCT), nuts/seeds – especially sunflower seeds.
HERE’S THE KICKER! With copious caloric intake during a cycle, it is VERY easy to become downloaded with excess dietary sugar which DEPLETES ZINC STORES QUICKLY – it is imperative to cut this depletion off at the pass and make certain supplemental zinc is taken throughout the cycle to make the transition to PCT much easier. Also, compounds in insoluble fibers, particularly whole wheat and psyllium (a bodybuilder’s favorite supplemental source of fiber), BLOCK zinc’s absorption.
Zinc is found in many forms when added to dietary supplements (oxide, aspartate, picolinate, sulphate, chelate, gluconate). Zinc in pill form tends to be absorbed best with the least side effects if in glycinate/arginate, amino acid, or gluconate bound forms. This is not to be confused with the orthomolecular dosing patterns sometimes suggested for immune ailments – for them, mouth absorption (either gargling with liquid zinc sulfate or sucking zinc lozenges) is essential.
We will address dosing parameters for the PCT time frame in the next part of this series.
Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN
Professional Associations: AACE, TES, ADA, ACP, ATA, PS, TOS, NLA, ASBMR, SHM, IHS, HPTHA, NSCA, ISSN
01-31-2011, 12:17 PM
ZMK is a very quality supp, makes sleep great. if you dont have $20+ a month to spend on ZMK, buy Zinc/copper combo for $10.
BJJ = life
01-31-2011, 01:53 PM
01-31-2011, 02:20 PM
i actually saw a study they did in bulgaria or something, where they gave people a megadose of zinc (100mg+) and it did boost their free and total test. the only catch here is that much zinc is toxic to the body. otherwise, up to 50mg zinc takes care of deficiencies and will bring the test up to where it should be.
BJJ = life
01-31-2011, 08:57 PM
There seems to be a few other studies that also support the position that ZMA does 'nadda'
Nice call out for SNAC "... was done by supplements manufacturer himself. The manufacturer first claimed that the study had been published in the prestigious Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, [www.bodyandfitness.com] but this was not the case"
I always thought it was an ok product ... Placebo I guess.
01-31-2011, 09:07 PM
I've been using ZMA in correlation with **** HCGenerate, which has ZMA in its ingredient profile, while on my SD cycle and its has helped, I believe that it has at least. On my previous cycles I didn't use ZMA and I experienced a severe loss of libido, and my overall shutdown seemed to be a lot worse; this also happened to me while on CEL HDROL. While using ZMA in conjunction with HCGenerate, I have experienced zero loss of libido, if anything I'm hornier then ever, and my shutdown doesn't seem as bad. I find this perplexing as I experienced greater shutdown and loss of libido while on HDROL, then when on SDROL, which is strange to say the least. This is of course anecdotal evidence, but I won't do another cycle without incorporating ZMA in some capacity.
02-02-2011, 09:16 PM
I agree with BBB transdermal magnesium OIL is the best form! Also raises DHEA leavels big time. The magnesium reacts with cholesterol in the skin and down the cascade comes out dhea. Up to three times as much! Also gets into the cells quicker since it bypasses the oral absorbtion bit.
02-02-2011, 11:12 PM
Great post BBB!
So one can simply buy regular magnesium oil and rub it into the skin? I'm looking at a product that claims to be "100% pure magnesium chloride brine from the ancient Zeckstein Seabed in the Netherlands" LOL
02-02-2011, 11:37 PM
I remember probably back in the late 90's or early 2000's when Bill Phillips was touting ZMA as the next biggest thing since sliced bread. I was stoked being so young and gullable back then that I went out and bought a bunch from EAS (he owned the company back then). You know what I noticed with ZMA? Not a damn thing! Seriously. It didn't absolutely nothing for me and I had 3 bottles to go through. But that's just me?
BTW I'm heading out the gym and didn't get to read the article but I will once I get back home.
02-03-2011, 10:15 AM
its definitely a good supplement. working out can severely deplete mineral levels in athletes so zinc especially is a must have.
BJJ = life
02-03-2011, 11:29 AM
I've always used ZMA at 3 caps. After reading this dropped down to 2 caps. I eat a lot of red meat and also take OT twice a day. Any reason I would need 3 caps over 2?
02-03-2011, 11:34 AM
02-03-2011, 11:39 AM
02-03-2011, 11:46 AM
Google it, it will all make sense!
A very cheap way to try it if you are interested rather than paying more for a red blood cell zinc test.
02-03-2011, 11:59 AM
02-03-2011, 12:08 PM
Tally test is the most accessible zinc status test and is a liquid. You can buy a bottle for $10-$15 (at a guess from over the pond) which contains numerous tests. You keep the zinc sulphate solution in your mouth, swill it around and assess by the perceived taste after 10 seconds.
If you get a blood test you would want red blood cell zinc levels not serum zinc levels. The RBC zinc test is superior.
02-03-2011, 12:15 PM
My doctor prescribes trandermal magnesium to all his patients along with Iodoral. Both are great for health and longivity.
02-03-2011, 12:21 PM
BODY PERFORMANCE SOLUTIONS REP
Sustain Alpha is back!
02-03-2011, 12:21 PM
Transdermal Mg is definitely a good idea.
People talk about toxic levels of minerals, zinc especially but don't take into account digestive issues and how much is actually being absorbed. I have suffered with gut issues and had to megadose zinc for a month before I made any serious progress on my zinc levels.
02-03-2011, 12:24 PM
im about to order some trans dermal magnesium, anyone have any experience with it? how much/where to apply?
BJJ = life
02-03-2011, 12:28 PM
02-03-2011, 12:30 PM
02-03-2011, 12:31 PM
Thin areas of the skin like back of knees, feet etc for those with a high body fat. Someone like you doesn't have to be as choosy.
02-03-2011, 12:34 PM
02-03-2011, 12:39 PM
02-05-2011, 08:46 PM
ZMA is a staple for me, and I use it all year for the sleep benefits, regardless if it boosts T or not, I sleep deeply and have vivid dreams when using it, and I only get 5-6 hours a sleep each day because of my terrible work/school schedule...whenever I run out I seem to be exhausted and never seem to get enough sleep
I guess it could be a placebo effect, "knowing" that I will sleep deeper and get a better nights sleep could alone relax me enough to probably make it happen, but who knows.
The sleep benefits are all that I have noticed, I would say that my exercise results do not really vary with or without it, because I occasionally will go a month or so without any ZMA when I run out and get to lazy to order
02-05-2011, 08:49 PM
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