Best compound for increaseing insulin sensitivity in muscle but not fat.

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    Best compound for increaseing insulin sensitivity in muscle but not fat.


    Im not interested in a formula, but a compound. What is the best ingredient for this.

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    From the Recompadrol write-up:

    Gymnema Sylvestre is an Indian herb which has been clinically proven to lower HbA1c, fasting blood glucose, and postprandial glucose levels dramatically (*11). Gymnema also increases the speed in which glucose is transported from the bloodstream into muscle tissue. In India a year long study was conducted using Gymnema daily, the study showed a decrease in fasting blood glucose levels from 232 mg/dL to 152 mg/dl, the control group had no change. (*12)The Gymnema group also experienced a significant drop in HbA1c(*12). In addition Gymnema has been shown to actually regenerate and multiply the number of insulin secreting beta cells in the pancreas. Regeneration and multiplication of beta cells means that those who have poor insulin sensitivity can now improve their bodies natural output of insulin. (*13)

    Lots of good info and studies cited on the other ingredients on the product page at nutraplanet too.
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    Good luck finding one....this is why I always say nutrient partitioners are best immediately pwo...

    Subbed for others thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Good luck finding one....this is why I always say nutrient partitioners are best immediately pwo...

    Subbed for others thoughts.
    pwo meaning pre-workout or post-workout? sorry always get my abbreviations mixed up.
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    i have been reading alot about Indian Kino lately, seems it is in KAL's Sugar Defense product. From what I have read this may blow other GDA's away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emiliozapata View Post
    i have been reading alot about Indian Kino lately, seems it is in KAL's Sugar Defense product. From what I have read this may blow other GDA's away.
    KAL's Sugar Defense is CHEAP and Effective really try it

    When I use Recompadrol with no carbs diet my cravings for junk food becomes uncontrollable damn it (Ice cream) and things very sugary but seems down my sugar too low and believe or not after eat this crap hours later i stay in ketosis (very bad breath)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    KAL's Sugar Defense is CHEAP and Effective really try it

    When I use Recompadrol with no carbs diet my cravings for junk food becomes uncontrollable damn it (Ice cream) and things very sugary but seems down my sugar too low and believe or not after eat this crap hours later i stay in ketosis (very bad breath)
    Quote Originally Posted by emiliozapata View Post
    i have been reading alot about Indian Kino lately, seems it is in KAL's Sugar Defense product. From what I have read this may blow other GDA's away.
    well this is very, very interesting... I've never heard of this product before. It's along the same lines as need2slin, glycobol, anabolic pump, recompadrol, etc?
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    Sline sane with 300mg ALA. You're really not going to find anything that only activates the GLUT-4 receptors, but this is about as good as it gets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Sline sane with 300mg ALA. You're really not going to find anything that only activates the GLUT-4 receptors, but this is about as good as it gets.
    I would make sure you're at least using r-ala, but I agree.

    4-Hydroxyisoleucine is also excellent, and we are working right now with a company trying to synthesize it - instead of using the crappy 10-30% extracts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    Im not interested in a formula, but a compound. What is the best ingredient for this.
    The best compounds that do exactly this are anabolics. Post workout GDA useage is your only real safe bet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I would make sure you're at least using r-ala, but I agree.

    4-Hydroxyisoleucine is also excellent, and we are working right now with a company trying to synthesize it - instead of using the crappy 10-30% extracts.
    Seems like Genomyx is really staying ahead of the curve, can't wait to see where this goes DSade. I know I have seen that ingredient in a few products but can't say I know much about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Seems like Genomyx is really staying ahead of the curve, can't wait to see where this goes DSade. I know I have seen that ingredient in a few products but can't say I know much about it.
    Reducing INsulin resistance in muscle and liver is very desireable.

    Curr Opin Investig Drugs. 2009 Apr;10(4):353-8.
    4-Hydroxyisoleucine: a plant-derived treatment for metabolic syndrome.

    Jetté L, Harvey L, Eugeni K, Levens N.

    BELLUS Health Inc, 275 Boulevard Armand-Frappier, Laval, Quebec H7V 4A7, QC, Canada.
    Abstract

    The plant fenugreek has been used for centuries as a treatment for diabetes. This article presents evidence that the major isomer of 4-hydroxyisoleucine, an atypical branched-chain amino acid derived from fenugreek, is responsible for the effects of this plant on glucose and lipid metabolism. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine was demonstrated to stimulate glucose-dependent insulin secretion by a direct effect on pancreatic islets. In addition to stimulating insulin secretion, 4-hydroxyisoleucine reduced insulin resistance in muscle and/or liver by activating insulin receptor substrate-associated phosphoinositide 3 (PI3) kinase activity. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine also reduced body weight in diet-induced obese mice. The decrease in body weight was associated with a marked decrease in both plasma insulin and glucose levels, both of which are elevated in this animal model. Finally, 4-hydroxyisoleucine decreased elevated plasma triglyceride and total cholesterol levels in a hamster model of diabetes. Based on the beneficial metabolic properties that have been demonstrated, 4-hydroxyisoleucine, a simple, plant-derived amino acid, may represent an attractive new candidate for the treatment of type 2 diabetes, obesity and dyslipidemia, all key components of metabolic syndrome
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    fenugreek is so cool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Reducing INsulin resistance in muscle and liver is very desireable.

    Curr Opin Investig Drugs. 2009 Apr;10(4):353-8.
    4-Hydroxyisoleucine: a plant-derived treatment for metabolic syndrome.

    Jetté L, Harvey L, Eugeni K, Levens N.

    BELLUS Health Inc, 275 Boulevard Armand-Frappier, Laval, Quebec H7V 4A7, QC, Canada.
    Abstract

    The plant fenugreek has been used for centuries as a treatment for diabetes. This article presents evidence that the major isomer of 4-hydroxyisoleucine, an atypical branched-chain amino acid derived from fenugreek, is responsible for the effects of this plant on glucose and lipid metabolism. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine was demonstrated to stimulate glucose-dependent insulin secretion by a direct effect on pancreatic islets. In addition to stimulating insulin secretion, 4-hydroxyisoleucine reduced insulin resistance in muscle and/or liver by activating insulin receptor substrate-associated phosphoinositide 3 (PI3) kinase activity. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine also reduced body weight in diet-induced obese mice. The decrease in body weight was associated with a marked decrease in both plasma insulin and glucose levels, both of which are elevated in this animal model. Finally, 4-hydroxyisoleucine decreased elevated plasma triglyceride and total cholesterol levels in a hamster model of diabetes. Based on the beneficial metabolic properties that have been demonstrated, 4-hydroxyisoleucine, a simple, plant-derived amino acid, may represent an attractive new candidate for the treatment of type 2 diabetes, obesity and dyslipidemia, all key components of metabolic syndrome
    Wow that is quite the list of benefits, not to mention the benefits of lowering total cholesterol naturally. The question is, would you have to take this prior to a carb meal or could it be used at any time to get the complete systemic benefits?
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Wow that is quite the list of benefits, not to mention the benefits of lowering total cholesterol naturally. The question is, would you have to take this prior to a carb meal or could it be used at any time to get the complete systemic benefits?
    Ideal time would be first thing in the morning with a small amount of carbs, but high protein, and immediately post workout.

    Would also work VERY well, as do most GDAs, when utlilizing for a refeed after carb restriction.
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    Fenugreek really is an amazing herb and has so many uses, especially in PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Would also work VERY well, as do most GDAs, when utlilizing for a refeed after carb restriction.
    This is the best feeling ever when doing this...pumps like whoa, all over, and tight tight skin..

    When I'm doing refeeds (utilizing GDAs) after carb restriction, especially after my first carb up after a Friday fullbody workout, it feels like my skin is going to burst all over
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    This is the best feeling ever when doing this...pumps like whoa, all over, and tight tight skin..

    When I'm doing refeeds (utilizing GDAs) after carb restriction, especially after my first carb up after a Friday fullbody workout, it feels like my skin is going to burst all over
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I would make sure you're at least using r-ala, but I agree.

    4-Hydroxyisoleucine is also excellent, and we are working right now with a company trying to synthesize it - instead of using the crappy 10-30% extracts.
    awsome!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    From the Recompadrol write-up:

    Gymnema Sylvestre is an Indian herb which has been clinically proven to lower HbA1c, fasting blood glucose, and postprandial glucose levels dramatically (*11). Gymnema also increases the speed in which glucose is transported from the bloodstream into muscle tissue. In India a year long study was conducted using Gymnema daily, the study showed a decrease in fasting blood glucose levels from 232 mg/dL to 152 mg/dl, the control group had no change. (*12)The Gymnema group also experienced a significant drop in HbA1c(*12). In addition Gymnema has been shown to actually regenerate and multiply the number of insulin secreting beta cells in the pancreas. Regeneration and multiplication of beta cells means that those who have poor insulin sensitivity can now improve their bodies natural output of insulin. (*13)

    Lots of good info and studies cited on the other ingredients on the product page at nutraplanet too.
    A while back I remember a guy said that he had his sugar checked on several GDA's, and this was the only one to make a real dent. I'd love to see it in bulk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    fenugreek is so cool.
    That newest fenugreek study showing improved fat loss (if I remember correctly), hypothesized the MOA was due to the 4-hydroxyisoleucine content...unfortunately I dont think they were measuring fat vs muscle mass. I'll have to take a looksy...
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    Ayyy looks like fat mass was measured...too lazy to read the FT atm, but here's the reference:

    J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2010 Oct 27;7:34.

    The effects of a commercially available botanical supplement on strength, body composition, power output, and hormonal profiles in resistance-trained males.
    Poole C, Bushey B, Foster C, Campbell B, Willoughby D, Kreider R, Taylor L, Wilborn C.

    Human Performance Lab, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, University of Mary Hardin-Baylor, Belton, Texas, 76513, USA. cwilborn@umhb.edu.

    Abstract
    ABSTRACT:

    BACKGROUND: Fenugreek (Trigonella foenum-graecum) is a leguminous, annual plant originating in India and North Africa. In recent years Fenugreek has been touted as an ergogenic aid. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of Fenugreek supplementation on strength and body composition.

    METHODS: 49 Resistance trained men were matched according to body weight and randomly assigned to ingest in a double blind manner capsules containing 500 mg of a placebo (N = 23, 20 ± 1.9 years, 178 ± 6.3 cm, 85 ± 12.7 kg, 17 ± 5.6 %BF) or Fenugreek (N = 26, 21 ± 2.8 years, 178 ± 6 cm, 90 ± 18.2 kg, 19.3 ± 8.4 %BF). Subjects participated in a supervised 4-day per week periodized resistance-training program split into two upper and two lower extremity workouts per week for a total of 8-weeks. At 0, 4, and 8-weeks, subjects underwent hydrodensiometery body composition, 1-RM strength, muscle endurance, and anaerobic capacity testing. Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA and are presented as mean ± SD changes from baseline after 60-days.

    RESULTS: No significant differences (p > 0.05) between groups were noted for training volume. Significant group × time interaction effects were observed among groups in changes in body fat (FEN: -2.3 ± 1.4%BF; PL: -0.39 ± 1.6 %BF, p < 0.001), leg press 1-RM (FEN: 84.6 ± 36.2 kg; PL: 48 ± 29.5 kg, p < 0.001), and bench press 1-RM (FEN: 9.1 ± 6.9 kg; PL: 4.3 ± 5.6 kg, p = 0.01). No significant interactions was observed among groups for Wingate power analysis (p = 0.95) or muscular endurance on bench press (p = 0.87) or leg press (p = 0.61). In addition, there were no changes among groups in any clinical safety data including lipid panel, liver function, kidney function, and/or CBC panel (p > 0.05).

    CONCLUSION: It is concluded that 500 mg of this proprietary Fenugreek extraction had a significant impact on both upper- and lower-body strength and body composition in comparison to placebo in a double blind controlled trial. These changes were obtained with no clinical side effects.

    PMID: 20979623 [PubMed - in process]PMCID: PMC2978122Free PMC Article
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    fenugreek is so cool.
    The only reason i don't just get a pound of Fenugreek is because Im afraid of growing breast, ad I've hear of people getting gino from the whole herb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbarrows View Post
    well this is very, very interesting... I've never heard of this product before. It's along the same lines as need2slin, glycobol, anabolic pump, recompadrol, etc?
    for me works great!

    like Glucose Factors from BAC this stuff rocks
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    for me works great!

    like Glucose Factors from BAC this stuff rocks
    Geez that's a potent formula!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    for me works great!

    like Glucose Factors from BAC this stuff rocks
    Is that NA-RALA in there? Regular ALA is no good.. too unstable.

    Glycobol gives me soft green stools. I use my own combo of bulk yellow gold + NA-RALA, but wouldn't mind trying some other things.
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    Recompadrol ROCKS! and it's on sale for $20 right now on NP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Is that NA-RALA in there? Regular ALA is no good.. too unstable.

    Glycobol gives me soft green stools. I use my own combo of bulk yellow gold + NA-RALA, but wouldn't mind trying some other things.
    no only ala but you can double the dose ALA IS 50/50 mix
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    So would adding fenugreek to a product like recompadrol make it that mich more effective?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbarrows View Post
    So would adding fenugreek to a product like recompadrol make it that mich more effective?
    maybe did you has used Recompadrol alone yet?


    4- hydroxyisoleucine is an amino acid derivative that assists the pancreas in production of insulin. Studies have shown that adding fenugreek to your diet reduces fasting blood sugars and improves after-meal glucose tolerance significantly. 4-hydroxyisoleucine works by two separate mechanisms: It has a direct, stimulating effect on insulin production for those who wish to increase their glucose metabolism and helps to reduce glucose resistance and the uptake of glucose, thereby reducing overall blood glucose levels. Several studies with animals and with human cell cultures demonstrate this extract’s positive effect on reducing postmeal glucose levels—with little or no increase in blood insulin concentrations— a clear indictor of improved insulin sensitivity.

    Several studies show that the free amino acid 4-hydroxyisoleucine plays a valuable role in insulin-promotion and glucose regulation. 4-hydroxyisoleucine stimulates insulin secretion, thereby limiting the extent to which blood glucose (the glycemic index) is elevated. Elevated blood glucose after meals leads to increased production of body fat. 4 hydroxyisoleucine promotes insulin secretion and inhibits the rise of blood glucose, thus helping to reduce body fat production. 4-hydroxyisoleucine exhibits a specific effect on the islets of Langerhans in the pancreas. These cells are directly responsible for insulin production. Most significantly, the effect of 4-hydroxyisoleucine is glucose dependent. The higher the level of blood glucose, the greater the insulin-promoting response elicited by 4 hydroxyisoleucine. Thus 4-hydroxyisoleucine exhibits a significant regulating effect, which corresponds with the insulin needs of the body at any given time. This makes this compound “adaptogenic,” responding to the particular needs of the body at any given time.
    Reference:

    1. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine: a novel amino acid potentiator of insulin secretion
    Diabetes, Vol 47, Issue 2 206-210,1998

    2. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine: experimental evidence of its insulinotropic and antidiabetic properties.
    Am J Physiol. 1999 Oct;277(4 Pt 1):E617-23.
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    Need2slin for the win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Need2slin for the win.
    I personally want to try it but it's a little expensive.
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    It is expensive if you go just on cost but once you look at cost per dollar and what you get in the product it really is not that much more expesive than any other body recomp product on the market. Also no blends which is a nice thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luelinks View Post
    I personally want to try it but it's a little expensive.
    This is how I feel about **** in general.
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    Cut the dose in half. 1 cap vs two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    The only reason i don't just get a pound of Fenugreek is because Im afraid of growing breast, ad I've hear of people getting gino from the whole herb.
    I have read a lot about it being a galactagogue. Somewhat worrying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robboe View Post
    I have read a lot about it being a galactagogue. Somewhat worrying.
    Depends mostly on the standardization.
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    I like Berberine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robboe View Post
    I have read a lot about it being a galactagogue. Somewhat worrying.
    What's this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    What's this?
    May cause galactorrhea aka lactation.
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