Best compound for increaseing insulin sensitivity in muscle but not fat.
- Thread starter kingdong
- Start date
Milas
Board Sponsor
From the Recompadrol write-up:
Gymnema Sylvestre is an Indian herb which has been clinically proven to lower HbA1c, fasting blood glucose, and postprandial glucose levels dramatically (*11). Gymnema also increases the speed in which glucose is transported from the bloodstream into muscle tissue. In India a year long study was conducted using Gymnema daily, the study showed a decrease in fasting blood glucose levels from 232 mg/dL to 152 mg/dl, the control group had no change. (*12)The Gymnema group also experienced a significant drop in HbA1c(*12). In addition Gymnema has been shown to actually regenerate and multiply the number of insulin secreting beta cells in the pancreas. Regeneration and multiplication of beta cells means that those who have poor insulin sensitivity can now improve their bodies natural output of insulin. (*13)
Lots of good info and studies cited on the other ingredients on the product page at nutraplanet too.
Gymnema Sylvestre is an Indian herb which has been clinically proven to lower HbA1c, fasting blood glucose, and postprandial glucose levels dramatically (*11). Gymnema also increases the speed in which glucose is transported from the bloodstream into muscle tissue. In India a year long study was conducted using Gymnema daily, the study showed a decrease in fasting blood glucose levels from 232 mg/dL to 152 mg/dl, the control group had no change. (*12)The Gymnema group also experienced a significant drop in HbA1c(*12). In addition Gymnema has been shown to actually regenerate and multiply the number of insulin secreting beta cells in the pancreas. Regeneration and multiplication of beta cells means that those who have poor insulin sensitivity can now improve their bodies natural output of insulin. (*13)
Lots of good info and studies cited on the other ingredients on the product page at nutraplanet too.
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Good luck finding one....this is why I always say nutrient partitioners are best immediately pwo...
Subbed for others thoughts.
Subbed for others thoughts.
monstermash
Well-known member
pwo meaning pre-workout or post-workout? sorry always get my abbreviations mixed up.
emiliozapata
Active member
i have been reading alot about Indian Kino lately, seems it is in KAL's Sugar Defense product. From what I have read this may blow other GDA's away.
MAxximal
Well-known member
KAL's Sugar Defense is CHEAP and Effective really try it
When I use Recompadrol with no carbs diet my cravings for junk food becomes uncontrollable damn it (Ice cream) and things very sugary but seems down my sugar too low and believe or not after eat this crap hours later i stay in ketosis (very bad breath)
tbarrows
Member
KAL's Sugar Defense is CHEAP and Effective really try it
When I use Recompadrol with no carbs diet my cravings for junk food becomes uncontrollable damn it (Ice cream) and things very sugary but seems down my sugar too low and believe or not after eat this crap hours later i stay in ketosis (very bad breath)
well this is very, very interesting... I've never heard of this product before. It's along the same lines as need2slin, glycobol, anabolic pump, recompadrol, etc?
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
I would make sure you're at least using r-ala, but I agree.
4-Hydroxyisoleucine is also excellent, and we are working right now with a company trying to synthesize it - instead of using the crappy 10-30% extracts.
Gutterpump
Banned
The best compounds that do exactly this are anabolics. Post workout GDA useage is your only real safe bet.
oufinny
Well-known member
Seems like Genomyx is really staying ahead of the curve, can't wait to see where this goes DSade. I know I have seen that ingredient in a few products but can't say I know much about it.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Reducing INsulin resistance in muscle and liver is very desireable.
Curr Opin Investig Drugs. 2009 Apr;10(4):353-8.
4-Hydroxyisoleucine: a plant-derived treatment for metabolic syndrome.
Jetté L, Harvey L, Eugeni K, Levens N.
BELLUS Health Inc, 275 Boulevard Armand-Frappier, Laval, Quebec H7V 4A7, QC, Canada.
Abstract
The plant fenugreek has been used for centuries as a treatment for diabetes. This article presents evidence that the major isomer of 4-hydroxyisoleucine, an atypical branched-chain amino acid derived from fenugreek, is responsible for the effects of this plant on glucose and lipid metabolism. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine was demonstrated to stimulate glucose-dependent insulin secretion by a direct effect on pancreatic islets. In addition to stimulating insulin secretion, 4-hydroxyisoleucine reduced insulin resistance in muscle and/or liver by activating insulin receptor substrate-associated phosphoinositide 3 (PI3) kinase activity. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine also reduced body weight in diet-induced obese mice. The decrease in body weight was associated with a marked decrease in both plasma insulin and glucose levels, both of which are elevated in this animal model. Finally, 4-hydroxyisoleucine decreased elevated plasma triglyceride and total cholesterol levels in a hamster model of diabetes. Based on the beneficial metabolic properties that have been demonstrated, 4-hydroxyisoleucine, a simple, plant-derived amino acid, may represent an attractive new candidate for the treatment of type 2 diabetes, obesity and dyslipidemia, all key components of metabolic syndrome
oufinny
Well-known member
Wow that is quite the list of benefits, not to mention the benefits of lowering total cholesterol naturally. The question is, would you have to take this prior to a carb meal or could it be used at any time to get the complete systemic benefits? :dunno:
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Ideal time would be first thing in the morning with a small amount of carbs, but high protein, and immediately post workout.
Would also work VERY well, as do most GDAs, when utlilizing for a refeed after carb restriction.
Gutterpump
Banned
This is the best feeling ever when doing this...pumps like whoa, all over, and tight tight skin..
When I'm doing refeeds (utilizing GDAs) after carb restriction, especially after my first carb up after a Friday fullbody workout, it feels like my skin is going to burst all over
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
You are doing it right bro...
kingdong
Well-known member
awsome!
kingdong
Well-known member
A while back I remember a guy said that he had his sugar checked on several GDA's, and this was the only one to make a real dent. I'd love to see it in bulk.
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
That newest fenugreek study showing improved fat loss (if I remember correctly), hypothesized the MOA was due to the 4-hydroxyisoleucine content...unfortunately I dont think they were measuring fat vs muscle mass. I'll have to take a looksy...
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Ayyy looks like fat mass was measured...too lazy to read the FT atm, but here's the reference:
kingdong
Well-known member
The only reason i don't just get a pound of Fenugreek is because Im afraid of growing breast, ad I've hear of people getting gino from the whole herb.
MAxximal
Well-known member
Attachments
Resolve
The BPS Rep
for me works great!
like Glucose Factors from BAC this stuff rocks
Geez that's a potent formula!
Gutterpump
Banned
for me works great!
like Glucose Factors from BAC this stuff rocks
Is that NA-RALA in there? Regular ALA is no good.. too unstable.
Glycobol gives me soft green stools. I use my own combo of bulk yellow gold + NA-RALA, but wouldn't mind trying some other things.
MAxximal
Well-known member
no only ala but you can double the dose ALA IS 50/50 mix
MAxximal
Well-known member
maybe did you has used Recompadrol alone yet?
4- hydroxyisoleucine is an amino acid derivative that assists the pancreas in production of insulin. Studies have shown that adding fenugreek to your diet reduces fasting blood sugars and improves after-meal glucose tolerance significantly. 4-hydroxyisoleucine works by two separate mechanisms: It has a direct, stimulating effect on insulin production for those who wish to increase their glucose metabolism and helps to reduce glucose resistance and the uptake of glucose, thereby reducing overall blood glucose levels. Several studies with animals and with human cell cultures demonstrate this extract’s positive effect on reducing postmeal glucose levels—with little or no increase in blood insulin concentrations— a clear indictor of improved insulin sensitivity.
Several studies show that the free amino acid 4-hydroxyisoleucine plays a valuable role in insulin-promotion and glucose regulation. 4-hydroxyisoleucine stimulates insulin secretion, thereby limiting the extent to which blood glucose (the glycemic index) is elevated. Elevated blood glucose after meals leads to increased production of body fat. 4 hydroxyisoleucine promotes insulin secretion and inhibits the rise of blood glucose, thus helping to reduce body fat production. 4-hydroxyisoleucine exhibits a specific effect on the islets of Langerhans in the pancreas. These cells are directly responsible for insulin production. Most significantly, the effect of 4-hydroxyisoleucine is glucose dependent. The higher the level of blood glucose, the greater the insulin-promoting response elicited by 4 hydroxyisoleucine. Thus 4-hydroxyisoleucine exhibits a significant regulating effect, which corresponds with the insulin needs of the body at any given time. This makes this compound “adaptogenic,” responding to the particular needs of the body at any given time.
Reference:
1. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine: a novel amino acid potentiator of insulin secretion
Diabetes, Vol 47, Issue 2 206-210,1998
2. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine: experimental evidence of its insulinotropic and antidiabetic properties.
Am J Physiol. 1999 Oct;277(4 Pt 1):E617-23.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
Need2slin for the win.
luelinks
Well-known member
I personally want to try it but it's a little expensive.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
It is expensive if you go just on cost but once you look at cost per dollar and what you get in the product it really is not that much more expesive than any other body recomp product on the market. Also no blends which is a nice thing.
kingdong
Well-known member
This is how I feel about NTBM in general.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
Cut the dose in half. 1 cap vs two.
Robboe
Handsome and intelligent
I have read a lot about it being a galactagogue. Somewhat worrying.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Depends mostly on the standardization.
prld2gr8ns
Idiot Savant
I like Berberine.
kingdong
Well-known member
What's this?
Rodja
Board Sponsor
May cause galactorrhea aka lactation.
JJC
Well-known member
for me works great!
like Glucose Factors from BAC this stuff rocks
What product are those nutrition facts for? And where can one find it?
Movin_weight
Active member
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of ingesting an oral supplement containing 4-Hydroxyisoleucine (4-OH-Ile, isolated from fenugreek seeds [Trigonella foenum-graecum]) with a glucose beverage on rates of post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis in trained male cyclists. Following an overnight fast (12hr), subjects completed a 90-minute glycogen depletion ride after which a muscle biopsy was obtained from the vastus lateralis. Immediately and 2 hours after the muscle biopsy, subjects ingested either an oral dose of dextrose (Glu) (1.8g·kg BW–1) or 4-OH-Ile supplement (Glu+4-OH-Ile, including 2.0mg·kg–1 4-OH-Ile with the same oral dose of dextrose) with a second muscle biopsy 4 hours after exercise. Post exercise muscle glycogen concentration was similar for both trials. Overall, there was a significant increase in glucose and insulin concentrations from time 0 throughout the majority of the 4-hour recovery period, with no significant differences between the two trials at any time point. Although muscle glycogen concentration significantly increased from immediately post exercise to 4hr of recovery for both trials, the net rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis was 63% greater during Glu+4-OH-Ile (10.6±3.3 vs. 6.5±2.6g·kg wet wt.–1·hr.–1 for the Glu+4-OH-Ile and Glu trials, respectively). These data demonstrate that when the fenugreek extract supplement (4-OH-Ile) is added to a high oral dose of dextrose, rates of post-exercise glycogen resynthesis are enhanced above dextrose alone.
B. C. Ruby, S. E. Gaskill, D. Slivka and S. G. Harger, (2005) The addition of fenugreek extract ( Trigonella foenum-graecum) to glucose feeding increases muscle glycogen resynthesis after exercise. [I]Amino Acids, 28,[/I] 71-76.
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of adding fenugreek extract (FG) to post-exercise carbohydrate feeding on glycogen resynthesis and subsequent exercise performance in normoglycemic male endurance athletes. A muscle biopsy sample was obtained from the vastus lateralis from subjects prior to exercise for 5 h at 50% of peak cycling power (52.1 ± 3.3% of VO2 peak). A second muscle biopsy sample was obtained immediately after exercise. Immediately after and 2 h after the second biopsy subjects ingested either an oral dose of dextrose (GLU) (1.8 g · kg BW−1) or GLU with FG containing 1.99 ± 0.20 mg · kg−1 4-hydroxyisoleucine (GLU + FG) in a randomized, cross-over, double blind design. At 4 h post-exercise a third biopsy was taken and subjects received a standardised meal along with FG or a placebo capsule. At 15 h post-exercise subjects underwent their final muscle biopsy before completing a simulated 40 km cycling time trial. There was no difference in muscle glycogen at any time between GLU and GLU + FG. Additionally, 40 km time trial performance was similar for average power output (221 ± 28 vs. 213 ± 16 watts) and for time to completion (69.7 ± 3.7 vs. 70.5 ± 2.2 min) for the GLU and GLU + FG, respectively. Despite earlier data to the contrary, the present results do not support an effect of fenugreek supplementation on glycogen resynthesis, even though this may have been the result of differences in experimental protocol.
D. Slivka, J. Cuddy, W. Hailes, S. Harger and B. Ruby, (2008). Glycogen resynthesis and exercise performance with the addition of fenugreek extract (4-hydroxyisoleucine) to post-exercise carbohydrate feeding. Amino Acids, 35, 439-444.
A couple abstracts for studies done on exercise response in non-diabetics. The 2nd study showing no effect was flawed in my oppinion because the subjects cycled at only 50% of their VO2 max and consumed CHO throughout the 5 hour bout. At that intensity they were undoubtedly utilizing significant amounts of FFA for energy, and the addition of CHO consumption was most likely sparing muscle glycogen. I have access to the full PDFs if interested.
The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of ingesting an oral supplement containing 4-Hydroxyisoleucine (4-OH-Ile, isolated from fenugreek seeds [Trigonella foenum-graecum]) with a glucose beverage on rates of post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis in trained male cyclists. Following an overnight fast (12hr), subjects completed a 90-minute glycogen depletion ride after which a muscle biopsy was obtained from the vastus lateralis. Immediately and 2 hours after the muscle biopsy, subjects ingested either an oral dose of dextrose (Glu) (1.8g·kg BW–1) or 4-OH-Ile supplement (Glu+4-OH-Ile, including 2.0mg·kg–1 4-OH-Ile with the same oral dose of dextrose) with a second muscle biopsy 4 hours after exercise. Post exercise muscle glycogen concentration was similar for both trials. Overall, there was a significant increase in glucose and insulin concentrations from time 0 throughout the majority of the 4-hour recovery period, with no significant differences between the two trials at any time point. Although muscle glycogen concentration significantly increased from immediately post exercise to 4hr of recovery for both trials, the net rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis was 63% greater during Glu+4-OH-Ile (10.6±3.3 vs. 6.5±2.6g·kg wet wt.–1·hr.–1 for the Glu+4-OH-Ile and Glu trials, respectively). These data demonstrate that when the fenugreek extract supplement (4-OH-Ile) is added to a high oral dose of dextrose, rates of post-exercise glycogen resynthesis are enhanced above dextrose alone.
B. C. Ruby, S. E. Gaskill, D. Slivka and S. G. Harger, (2005) The addition of fenugreek extract ( Trigonella foenum-graecum) to glucose feeding increases muscle glycogen resynthesis after exercise. [I]Amino Acids, 28,[/I] 71-76.
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of adding fenugreek extract (FG) to post-exercise carbohydrate feeding on glycogen resynthesis and subsequent exercise performance in normoglycemic male endurance athletes. A muscle biopsy sample was obtained from the vastus lateralis from subjects prior to exercise for 5 h at 50% of peak cycling power (52.1 ± 3.3% of VO2 peak). A second muscle biopsy sample was obtained immediately after exercise. Immediately after and 2 h after the second biopsy subjects ingested either an oral dose of dextrose (GLU) (1.8 g · kg BW−1) or GLU with FG containing 1.99 ± 0.20 mg · kg−1 4-hydroxyisoleucine (GLU + FG) in a randomized, cross-over, double blind design. At 4 h post-exercise a third biopsy was taken and subjects received a standardised meal along with FG or a placebo capsule. At 15 h post-exercise subjects underwent their final muscle biopsy before completing a simulated 40 km cycling time trial. There was no difference in muscle glycogen at any time between GLU and GLU + FG. Additionally, 40 km time trial performance was similar for average power output (221 ± 28 vs. 213 ± 16 watts) and for time to completion (69.7 ± 3.7 vs. 70.5 ± 2.2 min) for the GLU and GLU + FG, respectively. Despite earlier data to the contrary, the present results do not support an effect of fenugreek supplementation on glycogen resynthesis, even though this may have been the result of differences in experimental protocol.
D. Slivka, J. Cuddy, W. Hailes, S. Harger and B. Ruby, (2008). Glycogen resynthesis and exercise performance with the addition of fenugreek extract (4-hydroxyisoleucine) to post-exercise carbohydrate feeding. Amino Acids, 35, 439-444.
A couple abstracts for studies done on exercise response in non-diabetics. The 2nd study showing no effect was flawed in my oppinion because the subjects cycled at only 50% of their VO2 max and consumed CHO throughout the 5 hour bout. At that intensity they were undoubtedly utilizing significant amounts of FFA for energy, and the addition of CHO consumption was most likely sparing muscle glycogen. I have access to the full PDFs if interested.
Ginandtonic
Member
I read somewhere that Vanadyl Sulfate (an ingredient of recompadrol) was toxic in oral doses, not from a medical study but from word of mouth. Any validity to this?
Movin_weight
Active member
interesting study, slight significant decrease in BF% compared to placebo, although nothing to contribute it to. They measured serum hormone levels, but only every few weeks. No difference in serum test, estradiol, dht, insulin, cortisol were found between groups. Problem with interventional study designs like that is there are so many outside factors that could influence. Still a positive though
MAxximal
Well-known member
yep in High doses but
(Bis-Malto-Oxovanadium) BMOV is an organic form of the mineral vanadium. and this is the other form of vanadium
monstermash
Well-known member
Used Now's Fenugreek to boost libido and it worked but taken for longer than a week and my nips got sore... Same with Glycobol, which sucks cause glycobol really hardened my muscles up in the first few days of use.
For now I stick with Anabolic Pump and P-slin. When that stock runs runs out I'm trying Recompadrol and Slin-Sane.
If Dsade gets his hands on that 100% 4-hydroxyisoleucine I'd be willing to give it another go.
Scary. :jaw:
monstermash
Well-known member
Whats a typical "high dose"?
Ginandtonic
Member
So the ingredient in Recompadrol is different than the toxic version?
MAxximal
Well-known member
bud is toxic is you use it as staple maybe 90+ days without a break but for me works perfect
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