1,3 Dim Free
- 11-13-2010, 04:04 PM
1,3 Dim Free
Im looking for a quality 1,3 Dimethylamamine free pre-wo.
I react well to this stimulant but it gives me e.d. and after a couple weeks of use it becomes a hit or miss for me where one work out ill be amped the next zoned out and mellow.
Im currently using and its ok, the energy isnt the best and its to pricy for what it is since ALCAR, Cit mal, and some creatine provides the same pump and its a low dose caff.
I would prefer the product to not contain any aminos as i like to supplement those on my own.
Ive tried ASGT, WTF, , , Pre-surge original in caps.
Thank you again guys
- 11-13-2010, 04:06 PM
White flood brotha or pre max is a great one or vasopump by muscle fortress gives me insain pumps energy is ok but the pump is great it almost hurts
11-13-2010, 04:48 PM
11-13-2010, 07:21 PM
ragnarok and shotgun-neither contain 1,3 yet give good stim effect-at least for me.
WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID
11-13-2010, 07:28 PM
Since you've mentioned you've tried several...
Stim free...and no bcaa
P-Mag + P-Stanz Log
11-13-2010, 07:40 PM
11-13-2010, 07:52 PM
Oh God kill me but don't take the 1,3 dimeth outta my pre-WO lol. Key to 1,3 is using it in the right amount and infrequently, but I agree... everyday use is not a good thing... I learned this as well.
11-13-2010, 08:13 PM
Atheletic xtreme is having a tester oppurtunity for there new preworkout thats 1'3 dimethyl free, look out for reviews and logs and user reports, should be awesome!
11-13-2010, 08:20 PM
11-13-2010, 09:32 PM
Pre Max, Drive, Cre-02, or a natural Growth Hormone booster, etc.
The Primordial Woman
11-13-2010, 11:18 PM
Well i like to use one pre-wo for lifting, 4 times a week and a diff one for cardio 1-2 times per week.
I need one that will live up to the 4 times a week part.
Ive tried shotgun and ragnarok, not a huge fan of either
White flood doesnt react well with me bc of the gaba.
I liked Superpump Max, some works are a miss tho
WTF, always needed just a touch more kick tho.
RPM, does nothing for me, the original was epic tho!
Pre-surge original kills my stomach for some reason, i should maybe try the new one?
ASGT was the worst pre-wo i have ever used, i crash after an hr and feel bloated and nasty on it.
I like a lil stim effect, actually a good 1,3 dimeth free stim would be nice even, i can make my own pre-wo if push comes to shove.
What is the purpose of pomegranet in the Pre-Max rosie?
What do some of you do pre-wo?
And you say 1,3 dimeth needs to be used correctly and what not...explain? bc it always zombies me out and gives me dead ****.
Im thinkin of trying the new App Nut Lit-Up, thoughts?
11-13-2010, 11:30 PM
2. Interesting that you say that about ASGT - personally, I found it to be the best standalone and specific preworkout product. Maybe you don't have much of a stim tolerance for you to crash on it.
3. Pomegranate is an antioxidant and a glucose source - I really recommend that you actually read the science behind Pre Max, because it explains the purpose of every ingredient in the product;
4. I never mentioned anything about 1,3-dimeth in my first post here - go back and reread my reply.Glucose - When we began looking for a glucose source, we ran into a snag.
We wanted to include a glucose source for energy and to stimulate insulin release to help shuttle nutrients into the muscle cells.
But how could we get all of the benefits of glucose, without all of the extra calories and side-effects of excessive sugar consumption?
We knew we couldn’t use sucrose, fructose, dextrin, maltodexterin or waxy maize. All of these sources of glucose can eventually make you fat and insulin resistant (not to mention the fact that they are processed and stripped of any nutritional value). (10)
We needed something magical, something never used before in the supplement industry. So, we turned to Mother Nature and found pure organic pomegranate.
Why pomegranate? Isn’t it the same as any other sugary fruit juice?
No sir, not even close.
You see, pomegranate contains special secret sugars.
Seriously though, it’s true… scientists have yet to discover the “complex sugars” in pomegranate juice that explain its unique ability to decrease arterial plaque. (11) (more on that later)
Besides the yet-to-be-identified sugar fractions, we do know 3 unique things about pomegranate that separate it from any other fruit juice –
* Pomegranate increases insulin sensitivity and drives nutrients into muscle cells. (13-15)
* Pomegranate contains potent anti-oxidants that remove plaque from artery walls. (11, 16, 17)
* Pomegranate contains punicalagins which enhance nitric oxide (NO) production. (18)
Once we discovered the benefits of pomegranate, we basically had no choice but to use it as our glucose source. We knew it was the #1 choice for glucose replenishment, nutrient delivery and anti-oxidant value.
Pomegranate – One of a kind fruit
Although pomegranate has similar proportions of sugars as other juices such as grape, apple or orange (and a similar glycemic index) it trumps the competition with an exceptionally high anti-oxidant value. Studies show that pomegranate has 3-8x higher anti-oxidant activity than any of the above mentioned juices. (12)
Punicalagins and gallic acid appear to be the active components that increase insulin receptor sensitivity by enhancing peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPAR’s). Enhanced sensitivity of the insulin receptor means that insulin will drive nutrients into muscle cells more efficiently. (13-15)
Punicalagins have also been shown to increase the production of endothelial nitric-oxide synthase (eNOS), which may have a synergistic effect with the NO boosting effects of GlycoCarn (GPLC). (18)
Furthermore, a study done on diabetic patients showed that pomegranate juice was found to not only improve blood sugar control and insulin sensitivity, but actually reduce oxidation of LDL cholesterol, a benefit not typical of sugary fruit juices. (11, 16, 17)
It appears that pomegranate’s yet-to-be-indentified complex sugars and sugar containing polyphenolic tannins are responsible for this anti-atherogenic effects in humans. (11) In other words, these special “sugar fractions” appear to have the unique ability to reduce plaque within artery walls by reducing the buildup of LDL cholesterol within the arteries. (16, 17) This was highlighted in one human study where one year of pomegranate consumption lead to a 39% decrease in arterial wall thickness compared to the placebo. (16)
Anti-Oxidants - We included anti-oxidants to enhance recovery, power and athletic performance.
Wait… you didn’t know anti-oxidants could do this? That’s fine, most people don’t.
Anti-oxidants are easily the most overlooked and underestimated substance on the supplement list. Most pre-workout formulas contain little to no anti-oxidants, but we’ve fortified PreMax with 3 super anti-oxidants -
* Organic Pomegranate (source of punicalagins, anthocyanins, and gallic acid)
* GSE Grape seed extract (standardized to 95% oligomeric proanthocyanidins)
* Tomato extract (standardized to 10% lycopene)
So what exactly is an anti-oxidant?
An anti-oxidant is a substance that inhibits pro-oxidants.
Pro-oxidants are nasty substances that damage cellular tissue, including DNA.
Essentially, anti-oxidants are compounds that sacrifice themselves to absorb the reactive and destructive pro-oxidant compounds, disabling them before they are given a chance to damage the body. If the body has insufficient anti-oxidant levels to quell the pro-oxidants, they are left to freely damage muscle and cardiovascular tissue. This can lead to reduced muscular power and quicker fatigue. (19, 20)
Recently, a placebo controlled study with male athletes showed that 400mg/day of grape seed extract significantly reduced creatine phosphokinase (CPK) and red blood cell destruction from exercise. This resulted in a 24% increase in jumping performance and a 6.4% increase in explosive power after 30 days of supplementation. (20)
Each serving of PreMax contains a 400mg of grape seed extract standardized for oligomeric proanthocyanidins (OPC).
Other research has shown the anti-oxidant lycopene (from tomato extract) may protect against exercise induced asthma. (21)
And of course, PreMax includes a potent dose of freeze-dried organic pomegranate with impressive anti-oxidant ability (explained above).
5. You can use LIT UP if you like - that's entirely your decision.
The Primordial Woman
11-13-2010, 11:37 PM
Idk i feel like if i dont switch it up ill build a tolerance to the stim effects the product that much quicker, but if you have never had a problem with it, i should just use one then.
I know you didnt, i was referrring my 1,3 dimeth question to chocolatemilk
Ok well pre-max looks like a solid product for sure, but ive used the pp GPLC standalone at 4.5g and i got nothing from it sadly.
thank you for your help
11-13-2010, 11:45 PM
11-14-2010, 12:02 AM
I've gotten the zombies like that before as well.
IMO nothing compares to 1,3 dimeth. Not even close. So switch if you'd like but you need something pretty strong to fill in 1,3 dimeth's shoes.
I have had success using my pre-WO N2KTS infrequently. Using it 2-3x separate days not consecutively a week for heavy lift days and just putting in some good ol' elbow grease for cardio and remaining lifts days. If I did 4 days of 1,3 dimeth and 2 days of a another type of pre-WO my CNS system would not handle it at all.
11-14-2010, 12:14 AM
ah i see, the price is steep for pre-max, but the ingridients arnt cheap on there own.
thanks for the imput rosie.
I recently came off a nice stim break and havent used a 1,3 dimeth pre-wo for sometime now. Im scared to use it again, i never had a problem using it 4-5 times a week with jack3d for the longest time but now i cant do it. I have a very low tolerence to sitmulants. anything over 125mg of caff gets me to amped up, but every pre-wo is different, and ive tried all of those over 2 year period, most were samples and not full bottle runs also.
But thank you, i may just use something basic and add some 1,3 dimeth on max effort days twice a week.
Your companys N2KTS looks like another jack3d me too product chocolatemilk, is that right?
11-14-2010, 12:21 AM
Similar ingredients yes. You can always make your own home brew but it never compares to the the actual products. You can try though.
If you've came off a nice break you will get full effects with the 1,3 dimeth again
Just low dose it due to your sensitivity to stimulants, and infrequent use with it and you won't feel any of these sides again bro.
Good luck with whatever you do.
11-14-2010, 12:27 AM
alright thank you chocolatemilk,
im going to look into lit-up, wtf, and the new pre-surge caps with some bulk 1,3 dimeth for those hard days
11-14-2010, 02:31 AM
11-14-2010, 03:46 AM
The best 1,3 dim free preworkout supps are Ultima, Body Octane and Pre-Max!
Including 1,3 dim you can't go wrong with N2KTS, Presurge Unleashed and Maximize v2.
11-14-2010, 07:32 AM
If you have a low stim tolerance, then I definitely recommend using a NON-stim product and only using stimulants if you absolutely have to. i can't imagine what that's like, having been using stims pretty much on a perpetual basis, and 1,3-dimeth for at least a year with only a few days break from it.
The Primordial Woman
11-14-2010, 11:38 AM
Have you tried stacking 1/2 dose of one pwo with 1/2 dose of another. For example, some of mine are:
1.5 scoops ASGT w/ 1 or 1.5 scoops flashover
1.5 scoops ASGT w/ 1/2 or 1 scoop of Maximize
1 scoop ASGT w/ 2 scoops SP MAX
Sometimes I take ASGT standalone w/ 1.5g of L-Tyrosine and that works well too.
When done this way, I don't experience the crash.
11-14-2010, 12:32 PM
Rosie thank you for your opinions! What quality stim free pre-wos are currently on the market? Ultima maybe?
I was on your level for the longest time where all lowerstim pre-wos required stacking and i was on them all the time, but then i just lowered it slowly and took a break and have no intention of pushing it up again.
All of those combos would KILL me, i could never use more then 1 scoop Maximize, any more then 1 scoop ASGT and id throw up while working out.
Also i cant go over 1 scoop of SP Max either, the energy is good enough off one scoop of that for my workouts.
To much stimulation and my preformance drops in the gym extremely fast
11-14-2010, 12:34 PM
11-14-2010, 12:37 PM
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