Searching for a new pre-workout

Alex30

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What are some characteristics you look for when searching for a Pre-workout formula? I’m having a hard time finding anything that doesn’t make me gag and I really don’t like pills.
 
oufinny

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Alex, the main aspects I look for are performance, strength per serving and value. All of these are always the decision drivers for me, taste is important but as long as I can get it down without any problems, it takes a back seat to the main three. That said, after trying about 10 different pre-workout products the one I have landed on as my go to is LG Anadraulic State GT. Yes I am a rep and yes I am slightly biased that does not mean that it does not live up to the hype.

AS-GT has 45 real servings per bottle (some take 2 scoops but it is strong!), chock full of ultra-high quality ingredients like a test boosting complex, natural serms, amino acids, pSARMS and creatine mono. The stim complex gives excellent focus and crazy aggression leading to some seriously exciting workouts. Do some research and see for yourself, AS-GT is the real deal and is farm more than just a pre-workout supplement. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help!
 
EasyEJL

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I look for stim power, taste, price + ingredients + number of servings per bottle. All three of price/ingredients/servings per bottle really counts as a single item for me, as its interrelated. I tend to prefer somewhat less of a kitchen sink approach. I overall prefer less ingredients just because I like the control over what i'm taking in, and how much of each ingredient i'm taking in a day. Really I look for creatine, citrulline malate and AAKG as primary ingredients (on top of the stim component), the rest is less important to me.
 

southpaw23

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What are some characteristics you look for when searching for a Pre-workout formula? I’m having a hard time finding anything that doesn’t make me gag and I really don’t like pills.
Most preworkouts are basically stims with a sprinkling of under-dosed ingredients. Normally you can gauge just by examining the scoop size as to how many actives you'll be getting per serving, such as creatine,beta alanine, agmatine, citrulline among many other performance enhancers. I've had success with Iforce's Maximize V2 and Jack3d ( 3 scoops). Also Gaspari has the superpump max coming out soon which appears to be dosed correctly, which is what you want from a PWO. Applied Neutraceuticals has L.I.T Up which has DAA in it, a proven test enhancer so look into those.
 
mmacrazy

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I found that ASGT seems to work quite well. Only problem I have with it is taste. It's soooooo gnarly. But hey most of the things that actually work are going to be a bit rough.
 
oufinny

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I found that ASGT seems to work quite well. Only problem I have with it is taste. It's soooooo gnarly. But hey most of the things that actually work are going to be a bit rough.
I am really the only person that does not mind the taste of AS-GT??? The first version was nasty, there is no way around it, but the new one I think is much better than half the others I have tried. NTKTS by NTBM may be effective though it tastes like drinking chemical soup, no offense to all of the NTBM guys.

To the poster who mentioned the kitchen sink approach, yes that is a very valid point in most cases. I will say that the key ingredients that are in AS-GT are far from under-dosed or there would not be so many logs with such positive results if they were I gather.
 

Eric160

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asgt with anadraulic pump is the best preworkout stack ull find hands down
 

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I had a bunch of bulk supps left over (I'd probably just have bought ASGT, PreMax or Jack3d), and I will say this concoction absolutely kills it.

12.5mg 6-bromo
100mg caffeine
60mg 1,3-dimethylamylamine
300mg Sulbutiamine
20g whey + electrolytes + vegetable glycerin


Best taken when you've eaten enough carbs to have a good workout. If you buy the bulks from nutraplanet its much cheaper per serving than anything on the market.
 
oufinny

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I had a bunch of bulk supps left over (I'd probably just have bought ASGT, PreMax or Jack3d), and I will say this concoction absolutely kills it.

12.5mg 6-bromo
100mg caffeine
60mg 1,3-dimethylamylamine
300mg Sulbutiamine
20g whey + electrolytes + vegetable glycerin


Best taken when you've eaten enough carbs to have a good workout. If you buy the bulks from nutraplanet its much cheaper per serving than anything on the market.
Interesting combo and I like the addition of the bromo and the sulbutiamine. I hope the sulb. is capped by the way, I hear it takes like the devil. I can see the glycerin plus some carbs giving insane pumps on that little stack you put together. Throw is some citrulline malate and watch out!
 
poison

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I am really the only person that does not mind the taste of AS-GT??? The first version was nasty, there is no way around it, but the new one I think is much better than half the others I have tried. NTKTS by NTBM may be effective though it tastes like drinking chemical soup, no offense to all of the NTBM guys.

To the poster who mentioned the kitchen sink approach, yes that is a very valid point in most cases. I will say that the key ingredients that are in AS-GT are far from under-dosed or there would not be so many logs with such positive results if they were I gather.
I like the taste of ASGT. It tastes like hibiscus lemonade.

NTKTS by NTBM? I'd wager it tastes more like letter soup than chemical soup. :lol:

As for dosages in ASGT, there's 2.2gr creatine and a healthy dose of beta alanine, the test boosting effects are strong, and it just plan works!
 
oufinny

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I like the taste of ASGT. It tastes like hibiscus lemonade.

NTKTS by NTBM? I'd wager it tastes more like letter soup than chemical soup. :lol:

As for dosages in ASGT, there's 2.2gr creatine and a healthy dose of beta alanine, the test boosting effects are strong, and it just plan works!
That would be need to kill this s**t by Need To Build Muscle; I get sick of typing all of this out so I just make the incorrect assumption that everyone knows what I am talking about. :stickp4:
 
Killerkanadia

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I would like to know when NTKTS comes in stock, pls :)
 
Killerkanadia

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I like the over all feel from ASGT, but it needs more stims imo. Like Kleen said in his tread, stack it scoop for scoop with Jack3d or something of that sort.

I convinced my friend to buy Finaflex N.O. Ignite, so i can try it out. It looks like a pretty solid profile, and the price is where it's at.
 
poison

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3/4 scoop ASGT with a half scoop of Shock Therapy is wicked (and all the stim I can handle). One scoop each would be insane.
 
capnsavem

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I like the over all feel from ASGT, but it needs more stims imo. Like Kleen said in his tread, stack it scoop for scoop with Jack3d or something of that sort.

I convinced my friend to buy Finaflex N.O. Ignite, so i can try it out. It looks like a pretty solid profile, and the price is where it's at.
NO IGNITE was good for me. Gave me good energy and focus in the gym.
 
PrepNwa23

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I love Scivation's Vasocharge its a great profile with good ingredients citrulline malate, creatine, and beta-alanine all key ingredients i look for in a prework out. Also ASGT is most def top notch great energy, strength gains and its tolerable now. The original AS was hard to take but not its so much better. Also look into Omeg's Flashover very solid profile and not a prop blend for the win.
 
Rodja

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GPLC, BA, and a basic stim, if needed. I prefer to use non-stim pre-WO because I find that WAY too many people rely on stims instead of sleeping and eating well.
 
freefall365

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GPLC, BA, and a basic stim, if needed. I prefer to use non-stim pre-WO because I find that WAY too many people rely on stims instead of sleeping and eating well.
i wish nutra carried GPLC.
 

OnTheRoadTo

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Interesting combo and I like the addition of the bromo and the sulbutiamine. I hope the sulb. is capped by the way, I hear it takes like the devil. I can see the glycerin plus some carbs giving insane pumps on that little stack you put together. Throw is some citrulline malate and watch out!
maybe I'll add in the CM. I think the sulb potentiates everything else. Nailed 5x525 deads yesterday all cracked out on that stack :shocked:
 

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I like to see a high dose of CM in mine, I prefer not as much caffeine. I am also a huge fan of glycerin.

Mike
 
oufinny

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If it is any consolation, just got back from my workout with 1 scoop AS-GT, in PCT mind you, and set a PR on bench press of 235x4 after two sets of 225x8. AS-GT with Erase is one wicked combo ;).
 
MM11

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Ive loved agst + daa + bcaa pre work out. Picked them both up during the labor day sale and it's great.

I look for effective ingredient at real doses. And cost is important as well. I like rpm a lot but you stated you don't like pills.
 
poison

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GPLC, BA, and a basic stim, if needed. I prefer to use non-stim pre-WO because I find that WAY too many people rely on stims instead of sleeping and eating well.
Wanna be my sugar daddy? I'd be happy to enjoy a full 8 hrs a night. Until then, I'll keep working noon-midnight, bed by 1AM, and getting up at 6:30 for BJJ.

:D
 

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Alex, the main aspects I look for are performance, strength per serving and value. All of these are always the decision drivers for me, taste is important but as long as I can get it down without any problems, it takes a back seat to the main three. That said, after trying about 10 different pre-workout products the one I have landed on as my go to is LG Anadraulic State GT. Yes I am a rep and yes I am slightly biased that does not mean that it does not live up to the hype.

AS-GT has 45 real servings per bottle (some take 2 scoops but it is strong!), chock full of ultra-high quality ingredients like a test boosting complex, natural serms, amino acids, pSARMS and creatine mono. The stim complex gives excellent focus and crazy aggression leading to some seriously exciting workouts. Do some research and see for yourself, AS-GT is the real deal and is farm more than just a pre-workout supplement. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help!
I'm not trying to pick on LG (I love your EA+BCAA for intra workout) or any other company, but it seems like nearly all pre workout drinks are just stims, creatine, and some arginine based variant of "NO boosters."

Now, stims are fine, as they give energy for a work out. HOWEVER, most contain quite a bit of caffeine, and caffeine at high doses is known to NEGATE the positive effects of creatine. I have always been baffled as to why you (again, not just LG!) would put high doses of creatine and caffeine in the same beverage. Now, it maybe that this or that company uses more or less caffeine than their competitors and that PWO drinks with small amounts of caffeine may not compromise the effect of creatine, but since the blends are usually listed as "proprietary," we have no way of knowing how much caffeine is actually in what we are consuming.

My main gripe is the whole "nitric oxide booster" angle. Nearly every company in the supplement industry pushes this BS, but there is ZERO evidence that the arginine alpha-ketoglutarate in “nitric oxide” supplements has any effect on nitric oxide levels in muscles, or that orally administered arginine has any effect on increased blood flow. Effects have only been shown through intravenous injection -- that's it.
 

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Jack3d is my favorite.

ASGT makes me vomit, not because of taste, but because the ingredients dont agree with me.
 
poison

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I'm not trying to pick on LG (I love your EA+BCAA for intra workout) or any other company, but it seems like nearly all pre workout drinks are just stims, creatine, and some arginine based variant of "NO boosters."
You'd be right, nearly all do. ASGT is one of the exceptions. It has no arginine or other popular NO boosters, and it has well under 200mg caffeine per scoop (and less than a medium coffee at starbucks).

Now, stims are fine, as they give energy for a work out. HOWEVER, most contain quite a bit of caffeine, and caffeine at high doses is known to NEGATE the positive effects of creatine. I have always been baffled as to why you (again, not just LG!) would put high doses of creatine and caffeine in the same beverage. Now, it maybe that this or that company uses more or less caffeine than their competitors and that PWO drinks with small amounts of caffeine may not compromise the effect of creatine, but since the blends are usually listed as "proprietary," we have no way of knowing how much caffeine is actually in what we are consuming.
Not so fast:

There are a number of ways to get the most out of your creatine supplementation. Learn whay they are and how to utilize your creatine to start gaining lean muscle mass!

By: John Berardi


A 5:00 am Rendezvous


"It's 5:00 A.M. already? Who practices at this time?" Well, for some reason or another, rowers do. And we know this because we work with several rowing teams here in Ontario. And it is not only rowers that greet the sun head on. We also know quite a few bodybuilders who have lives outside the gym. Many of them rise and shine while we're still in bed dreaming about the girl from the Horny Goat Weed ad.

Regardless of your sport, if you typically start your day off in the wee hours, you probably have only one friend this early. And his name is Mr. Coffee. If you workout, take supplements, and spend enough time with Mr. Coffee, though, you'll eventually hear something like this: "Hey, aren't you taking creatine? You shouldn't be drinking coffee". "I shouldn't?" you may ask. "No, I heard that the coffee somehow ruins the absorption of the creatine". To which you may reply, "But I love what creatine is doing for my training. I love my coffee too. Is caffeine really having a negative impact on my training by nullifying the benefits of the creatine supplementation? Should I give one up?"

These are all good questions. Questions we intend to address in this article. And after putting the creatine and caffeine issue to bed, we hope to discuss some creatine combinations that may lead to optimal results for creatine supplementation.


Creatine & Caffeine... The Forbidden Combination?


The creatine and caffeine issue has been discussed pretty extensively in both the athletic and scientific communities. However, most people don't even know why such a debate exists. What exactly is the concern? Well let's talk a little history.

The creatine and caffeine debate started about four years ago when one single scientific study concluded that "caffeine counteracts the effects of a creatine loaded muscle" (1). This statement was shocking because the purpose of the study was to see if the two agents could work together to increase exercise performance, not to see if they would interfere with each other. Researchers and athletes have long known that caffeine and creatine independently improve performance so a combination would be the next logical step.

Creatine works on the phosphocreatine and ATP systems while possibly buffering exercise produced hydrogen protons (acid), while caffeine demonstrates a powerful stimulation for the release of epinephrine. So theoretically, one could take both to gain more of a performance edge. But this study showed that maybe they don't work together. Even further, it showed that maybe they interfere with each other. So if this is the case and caffeine does counteract the effect of a creatine loaded muscle then there is no debate. The answer is to avoid consuming beverages that contain caffeine if you want your money spent on creatine to work for you.

But as usually is the case, things are not so simple. Although some individuals avoid this combination like the plague, we don't think this is necessary. So while you're here, go ahead and grab a cup of coffee. Then add your desired amount of crystals - creatine, not sugar; if you haven't already had your dose for the day. Based on further scientific data and scrutiny, you just might not have to give either one up.


A Study's Only As Good As It's Design


When looking back at the previously mentioned study, some glaring problems are evident. And these problems explain our disbelief of the conclusions. First, the study utilized a crossover design. In a crossover design, one group of lifters first takes creatine and then switches over to placebo a few weeks later. The other group first takes placebo then switches over to creatine a few weeks later.

During each treatment performance tests are done. This design is a great one in most cases because researchers don't have to compare two different groups of guys, one group of lifters on creatine vs one group of different lifters on placebo. In this design, the researchers can compare the same athletes (on creatine) to themselves (on placebo) a few weeks later.

Although this is typically a great study design, when a supplement has lasting effects, a long period has to separate the time between treatments. If not, the effects of creatine will still be around when the subjects are on placebo. And that's the problem with this study. In this design, the researchers only allowed 3 weeks between creatine/caffeine and placebo. We know that this is too short of a time between treatments to allow the study participant to "return to normal".

Subsequent studies have shown repeatedly that the washout period for creatine supplementation is a minimum of four weeks, it may be even be longer. So one of the take-home messages of this article is that creatine, once loaded into the muscle, takes about 4-6 weeks or more to be eliminated (2). If this is the case, we hope you realize the fact that since performance tests were conducted, the treatments could have affected both testing periods. This is a great way to ensure that the data from a study is meaningless.

Another important factor to consider in all of this is diet. Creatine containing foods, like steak and fish, may provide enough creatine to effectively maintain your initial loading.

What we mean here is that after you load up for a week, you may be able to maintain a creatine-loaded state with diet alone. Many of you have heard of "maintenance doses" of creatine that usually consist of around 5 grams per day.

These may be unnecessary. Since the combination of a typical non-vegetarian diet and your natural production of creatine provides about 2 grams of creatine per day, you only need an additional 2 or 3 grams per day from food to stay loaded. The research shows that diets high in red meat (1.5 or 2 lbs per day) can provide this (2).But just to be safe, we typically recommend "reloading" every few months however as you may gradually lose that super-loaded state over time.

Getting back to the science of the creatine and caffeine thing, if subjects remain loaded by dietary means, a crossover study may never give good results. Another example of this is evident in another creatine and caffeine study in scientific literature (3). This crossover study also showed no performance differences between groups that took creatine and caffeine together and those on placebo.

But again, the washout problem rears its ugly head. This study only utilized a one-week washout period between the subject cross-over. We cannot really gain any information from this study in terms of creatine and caffeine interactions. This short washout again may have allowed the subjects to be creatine loaded throughout the testing even when they were performing as the placebo group.

Although the two studies seem to run counter to our advice to load your coffee up with creatine powder, I hope that you can see that a study is only as good as it's design. In addition, our argument gains some support from the following. In both studies, the loading of muscle with creatine was not hindered by caffeine ingestion. So if the muscle is loaded with creatine, then it should be able to perform like other creatine-loaded muscles or simply put, better.

The only limiting factor then in these studies is the design. One argument that other side proposes to justify their conclusions is that perhaps the coffee caused diuresis (water loss) and that inhibited the performance gain. Since it is well-know that dehydrated muscles perform very poorly and have lower protein synthetic rates than normally hydrated muscle, some have argued that maybe the coffee negated the effects of creatine due to dehydration (4). Since there is no data on this, it is merely speculation. But the most practical answer is as follows. Ask yourself if you find yourself being constantly dehydrated when you consume coffee. If the answer is no, then you know that you are ok on this front.

Although the debate seems pretty even at this point, the real clincher for our side is this. In many prior studies showing that creatine does increase performance and muscle mass, creatine was administered with…you guessed it... good old coffee or tea. Since creatine is very hard to dissolve in regular room temperature beverages, researchers had been giving creatine in warm coffee and tea to ensure dissolution of the powder and to mask the taste. Also this dissolution makes taking creatine orally easier on subjects and their digestive systems. Since there was a demonstrated effect of creatine in these studies, the coffee must not have hindered the effects of the creatine.

Although, we are pretty convinced that coffee will probably not lead to a huge reduction in the effectiveness of creatine supplementation, we have decided to go ahead and do a definitive study. In collaboration with our lab mates and lab director at the University of Western Ontario, we plan to look at the effects of creatine, creatine plus caffeine, creatine plus coffee, and placebo. This study should, uhm, dissolve this debate once and for all. Until then, we won't be kicking Mr Coffee or Mr Creatine out of our lives just yet.
I would invite you to lay off the creatine for 2 months, then choose the pre-workout of your choice containing both creatine and caffeine, and go to town. Report back as to how the creatine kicks in, or not.


My main gripe is the whole "nitric oxide booster" angle. Nearly every company in the supplement industry pushes this BS, but there is ZERO evidence that the arginine alpha-ketoglutarate in “nitric oxide” supplements has any effect on nitric oxide levels in muscles, or that orally administered arginine has any effect on increased blood flow. Effects have only been shown through intravenous injection -- that's it.
search 'arginine bandwagon' here on AM. Grab a coffee, unplug the phone, curl up in front of the fire, and enjoy. :D:D:D
 

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You'd be right, nearly all do. ASGT is one of the exceptions. It has no arginine or other popular NO boosters, and it has well under 200mg caffeine per scoop (and less than a medium coffee at starbucks).
Gotchya. I stand corrected about ASGT's complicity in the NO booster scam. I'm glad to hear you aren't pushing that garbage.

Not so fast:



I would invite you to lay off the creatine for 2 months, then choose the pre-workout of your choice containing both creatine and caffeine, and go to town. Report back as to how the creatine kicks in, or not.
Interesting information from the article you posted. I'd like to hear the results of the study the author alludes to at the end of the piece. I do love my coffee, so I'd be very happy if it turns out that caffeine and creatine don't work against each other.




search 'arginine bandwagon' here on AM. Grab a coffee, unplug the phone, curl up in front of the fire, and enjoy. :D:D:D
Will do! It's amazing how much money gets blown on the arginine scam.
 
xtreme1

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I just changed from NoShotgun to Jack3d. I had great results from the shotgun but decided to try something new. So far I like Jack. If you are looking to burn some BF I would go with NoShotgun.
 
nattydisaster

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noot

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I find that WAY too many people rely on stims instead of sleeping and eating well.
Meh, you can sleep when you are retired, until then every single second counts.

Shock Therapy, Jack3d, White Flood, and the like.

I personally find capsules/pills to be the weakest. You have less control over how much you want to actually use and also sometimes you really get to miss out on the taste.

As for the gag thing, man up and cut down on your sugars. Just because it does not taste like Bubble Yum doesn't mean you should be gagging all over the place.
 

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FusionForce, Muscle Marinade, Animal Pump are good. MM has more than enough stims in it, I prefer the FF over it. The Pump is really good, and a cool thing with Universal's packs is that a user can remove the stims (red pill) if desired.
 
RenegadeRows

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If your concerned about taste, I would surely look into White FLOOD or Ragnarok. Those are the two best preworkout powders I've tasted (and I've tried A LOT), and they worked really well. Most people on here can attest to both of them tasting great. I could even send you some free samples of White FLOOD. Just let me know..
 
Rahl

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My favorite was N2KTS but since it's not available I've been searching. I've tried EST's Methyl Mass, AMP02, and 1MR. I like the 1MR the best. AMP02 I like (and use) for the focus but not so much on the energy. Methyl, I have to take way more than it says. (Like 3 scoops) to get anything out of it. 1MR I only had a sample of but it blew me away. I was super energetic and focused like a laser with it. I haven't tried ASGT yet. I hate dumping the money on a tub and finding out it sucks. I got the methyl cheap and a free sample of the 1MR.

I may try ASGT next if N2KTS isn't back in by then.
 
Alex30

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Before spending money on anything, I want to try it first. After asking around, I was given the opportunity to try something that hasn't hit the market yet - (it will be available in October). I'm really stoked about trying it! :D
 

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Just ordered APS' Mesomorph and received it today. It contains creatine nitrate is dosed appropriately, not a pixie prop formula. Once I begin use tomorrow, I will follow-up with a mini log.
 
xtreme1

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asgt with anadraulic pump is the best preworkout stack ull find hands down

Just my opinion but I think Anadraulic Pump and State are garbage. I love many products from LG but I think these 2 are trash. I would go with Jack3d if you are looking for energy and power, if your looking to also burn a sh@t load of fat go with NoShotgun you will sweat your balls off.
 

southpaw23

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Took my first dose of Mesomorph today and hands down it's the best PWO I've tried yet, and I've taken Jack3d, PSU, Maximize and ASGT. Mesomorph owns them all. It contains creatine nitrate, agmatine and citrulline 2:1 dosed appropriately. The stim complex is the strongest that I've tried yet and this coming from a 3 scoops of Jack3d and 2 scoops of Maximize kinda guy.
 
poison

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Before spending money on anything, I want to try it first. After asking around, I was given the opportunity to try something that hasn't hit the market yet - (it will be available in October). I'm really stoked about trying it! :D
You're all Lit Up, aren't you? :lol:
 
RepThat21

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Just my opinion but I think Anadraulic Pump and State are garbage. I love many products from LG but I think these 2 are trash. I would go with Jack3d if you are looking for energy and power, if your looking to also burn a sh@t load of fat go with NoShotgun you will sweat your balls off.
just curious why you think theyre garbage?
 

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