Attention Everybody:congress is threatening to give new powers to the FDA

[ax1]

..................

Friends and supplement patriots, congress is threatening to give new powers to the FDA. This bill Food Safety Accountability Act (S. 3767) is in the Senate and adds provisions to give the FDA power to imprison supplement manufacturers for up to 10 years for "adulteration and misbranding". Sounds logical except, something so simple as forgetting to fill out a form could get you labeled as "adulterating and misbranding" a supplement. Giving the FDA to push for criminal penalties would mean that they can strong arm any small company that doesn't have the money to fight.

Please email your Senator and tell them to stop this horrible bill from passing. This is URGENT, we need your help. The Senator who introduced the bill is trying to rush this through bu October 12th and hopes it goes through unopposed. Please take action by joining our friends at Life Extension Foundation and email your Senator today!


Take Action Now By Clicking Here:

Congress Seeks to put Dietary Supplement makers in Jail for Ten Years!

 

[BulkHead]

They won't stop until even vitamin C can only be obtained via prescription. That way, big pharma and big medicine make more money. And we all loose more of our freedom.

 

[mich29]

whoa this is some serious ****

 

[rochabp]

the federal govt is like a pronstar... they just wanna f@ck us

 

[ConcreteConny]

the federal govt is like a pronstar... they just wanna f@ck us

Well put my friend :rant:

//CC

 

[bigrobbierob]

I just got an email from anabolicminds and filled the info out and sent it to my senators.

My senators are really good at responding to me by mail, I will let you know what they said in a week or so when it arrives.

 

[oufinny]

I enjoyed the five minutes I put into making sure both letters were sent; I am seriously getting ticked at the govt. lately.

 

[pablogdog]

I enjoyed the five minutes I put into making sure both letters were sent; I am seriously getting ticked at the govt. lately.

Everyone should take the timeout to do this. It's quick and easy. Now just waiting for the form-letter reply from my senators....

 

[dsade]

This makes what...6 letters i've sent this year?

The government power seizure has become like Herpes...popping up every few months. All they need is one lapse in attention and we are all screwed.

 

[southpaw23]

Gonna have to get supplemental insurance just to get my hands on some centrum.

 

[Conagher]

This makes what...6 letters i've sent this year?

The government power seizure has become like Herpes...popping up every few months. All they need is one lapse in attention and we are all screwed.

Agreed.We are on the brink of losing all of our freedoms.

 

[rambo679]

Should I add eat **** after sincerely?

 

[delsolrob]

This makes what...6 letters i've sent this year?

The government power seizure has become like Herpes...popping up every few months. All they need is one lapse in attention and we are all screwed.

SO TRUE!

 

[tnubs]

theres bigger, and worse things to come than this

 

[B5150]

"The sinister scheme behind this bill is to exploit the public’s concern about food safety. Drug companies want to convince your Senators that an overreaching law needs to be enacted to grant the FDA powers to define “food contamination” any way it chooses.

Even today, the FDA can proclaim a dietary supplement as “misbranded” even if the best science in the world is used to describe its biological effects in the body. The concern is that the FDA will use the term “misbranded” in the same way it defines “adulterated” in order to jail dietary supplement makers as if they were selling contaminated food."

So let me see if I got this straight - you guys are against this but have no problem buying OTC dietary supplements and anabolic steroids that are contaminated or do not meet label claims (eg. bunk SD, etc)

You guys come on here crying about label and bogus and/or bunch product all the time.

The problem with the supplement industry is their inability to self regulate. If they can't or won't do it themselves then someone will.

 

[danielmaco]

I think everyone is making a big deal out of this. The fda is actually looking out for our best interests. Why should supplement companies be able to lie in order to sell more products? We will now finally know which company talks ****. It's about time I say! This is no longer the wild west!!!

 

[danielmaco]

"The sinister scheme behind this bill is to exploit the public’s concern about food safety. Drug companies want to convince your Senators that an overreaching law needs to be enacted to grant the FDA powers to define “food contamination” any way it chooses.

Even today, the FDA can proclaim a dietary supplement as “misbranded” even if the best science in the world is used to describe its biological effects in the body. The concern is that the FDA will use the term “misbranded” in the same way it defines “adulterated” in order to jail dietary supplement makers as if they were selling contaminated food."

So let me see if I got this straight - you guys are against this but have no problem buying OTC dietary supplements and anabolic steroids that are contaminated or do not meet label claims (eg. bunk SD, etc)

You guys come on here crying about label and bogus and/or bunch product all the time.

The problem with the supplement industry is their inability to self regulate. If they can't or won't do it themselves then someone will.

Well said mate.....

People will see the benefits of this move worldwide.

Thank you fda! It's about time!

 

[southpaw23]

This industry needs some form of regulation. Some of the claims these companies make are so outlandish, yet it's simply chalked up to "marketing". Fat-burners spiked with meridian, spiked with roids (which some of us don't want), even down to protein powders failing to meet label claims. No one protects the consumer. If these companies won't police themselves accordingly, in favor of making a quick buck at the consumer's expense, then something has to be done.

I understand it's an expensive proposition for some of the smaller companies, but marketing claims should in call cases be supported. All batches/raws should be tested and verified prior to shipment. This industry unfortunately deals with a lot of unsubstantiated pseudo-science claims. At least companies like Driven Sports can invest in blood tests (albeit in-house) in order to substantiate their claims. They at least meet a certain threshold prior to product releases. Companies under-dosing their products then claim your bench press will skyrocket 1000% after 48 hours, need to go. Just my two cents.

 

[yrck]

10 years is extremely harsh. Might as well go murder someone.

It looks like they are trying to give existing legislation more teeth. The current supplement act has the following in it: "the dietary supplement manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that a dietary supplement is safe before it is marketed"

Knowing that, one has to determine what safe means. In bodybuilding some of the things that we constitute as normal and just "sides" are considered horrific to the uninitiated. I can imagine working at the FDA you would come to believe every consumer is a moron and needs to be protected from themselves. We think we know what we are doing. No problem I'll just take a PCT... So the word safe is subjective and when it comes down to it the FDA is really stressing out on things like ProHormones.

The real problem I see with supplements is the wide range of effects that the same product can have on different people. Biceps for some, bitch tits for others. People have that habbit of not educating themselves on there body and how they relate to what they are taking. How many people here run regular blood work? Now compare that to the average guy off the street buying something at GNC. Unfortunately its this average user that doesnt educate themselves that is creating the problems with the FDA.

With all that in mind, it sounds like the FDA should be looking to formalize the relationship on the consumer side rather than the cop out of putting supplement makers behind bars. Why not leave it up to the persons doctor? I already visit my doctor when I'm sick and when I want to get bloodwork. Now before you get paranoid keep in mind that I'm talking about mostly anabolics here. Things that you can consitute as basic nutrients like Vitamin C, Creatine, etc dont need to be regulated on the same level. Although quality testing wouldnt hurt. Same goes for stimulants.

Back to doctors. Personally I have naturally lower hormonal levels. If I want to bull**** that I've been having depression or low motivation I can get something like AndroGel. If I was "normal" it would be a non option. However the same burdon exists for the doctor and insurance companies. If an uneducated person runs a cycle wrong they leave it to there doctor to fix them. On the extreme you have people who go overboard and give themselves severe liver and kidney problems. Formalizing the process takes that cost away. Sure you still have shady doctors and abuses but that burdon rests with the physician either way. This way the supplement designer is still left to innovate and the doctor can help before problems are created.

So you could point out a con to all this. What about those that dont give a **** and just want the good stuff? I dont want to deal with having to prove I'm healthy to my doctor. No problem. Formalizing it has the added benefit of making it more available so the ones that like to dabble on the side can just ask around at the gym.

Oh and I apologize if this is random, especially the fact that its my first post. I'm just sick of seeing talented guys like Patrick Arnold making comments like "I'd have to move to another country before I could make that". Guys like him should have patents that they make millions off of licensing. They shouldn't have to worry about going to prison. Problem with our country is the burden of change is left with us. I hope that anyone that wrote letters to there congressmen today did so in a tactful and intelligent manner. Otherwise there going to pass this **** and continue to demonize a lot of very talented people that should instead be getting rich.

 

[yrck]

This industry needs some form of regulation. Some of the claims these companies make are so outlandish, yet it's simply chalked up to "marketing". Fat-burners spiked with meridian, spiked with roids (which some of us don't want), even down to protein powders failing to meet label claims. No one protects the consumer. If these companies won't police themselves accordingly, in favor of making a quick buck at the consumer's expense, then something has to be done.

I understand it's an expensive proposition for some of the smaller companies, but marketing claims should in call cases be supported. All batches/raws should be tested and verified prior to shipment. This industry unfortunately deals with a lot of unsubstantiated pseudo-science claims. At least companies like Driven Sports can invest in blood tests (albeit in-house) in order to substantiate their claims. They at least meet a certain threshold prior to product releases. Companies under-dosing their products then claim your bench press will skyrocket 1000% after 48 hours, need to go. Just my two cents.

I agree with this too. Purity and contamination needs to be regulated just like anything else. Perhaps the FDA should be looking to enforce standards instead of just sending these snake oil salesmen to jail after the fact.

 

[BrYmAsTeR17]

yrck I couldn't have said it better myself. I saw that post with Pat and I was dissapointed as well. It's just not right that that kind of talent and innovation has to be constricted. It's like if you told Microsoft to stop making computers and then put them in jail for making them because they found a negative side effect from too much computer use; it's not practical.

How about they focus on cigarrete use which kills more people by far than any drug or supplement combined.

 

[tnubs]

How about they focus on cigarrete use which kills more people by far than any drug or supplement combined.

doesnt our president smoke newports? i believe so

and they tax cigarettes pretty heavily, so there is a lot of money to be made...

 

[BrYmAsTeR17]

doesnt our president smoke newports? i believe so

and they tax cigarettes pretty heavily, so there is a lot of money to be made...

Well in that case tax supplements heavier. I would rather pay $2-3 more for a product than to have the primary providers of these products jailed.

 

[B5150]

The tax on cigarettes is a far greater percentage and it is not for regulation and standardization but rather revenue.

http://tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0267.pdf

 

[Robboe]

Ironic that a company regulated by the FDA recently issued a recall on Tylenol. How many of the suits at Johnson & Johnson are getting threatend with jail time?

 

[DAdams91982]

Man... I would love to hear Ron Paul speak on this. He say's the Dept. of Agriculture is unconstitutional, would love to hear him speak on this front.

The bill is extremely short and vague. Usually it is made to be that way so the words can bend at will.

LEF has some money, so I do hope they fight it well.

 

[southpaw23]

Ironic that a company regulated by the FDA recently issued a recall on Tylenol. How many of the suits at Johnson & Johnson are getting threatend with jail time?

Robboe I agree, however, Johnson and Johnson has a certain threshold that must be met, prior to releasing products for general consumption. Supplement companies do not. As an example your claims regarding Triazole and AX are supported by blood tests, and comes as close to scientific validation as possible. You know many supplement companies, especially smaller ones, simply use abstract studies conducted over 30 years ago, extrapolate those studies and then apply them to the general public, now knowing whether or not the science behind their products actually pair up with their marketing claims. I think supplement companies should have to meet a certain threshold with respect to their marketing claims. If a company claims that my test levels will jump 200% in two weeks, prove it or be gone, this will ultimately benefit those companies that are doings the right way.

 

[DAdams91982]

Nothing like just adding in more and more government. We see how well that has done for us thus far.

 

[pablogdog]

The bill is extremely short and vague. Usually it is made to be that way so the words can bend at will.

This is the problem.

 

[southpaw23]

Nothing like just adding in more and more government. We see how well that has done for us thus far.

Facing jail time is silly, especially doing so based on vague language.

But don't you think supplement companies should be forced to meet certain requirements, especially with respect to label and marketing claims? If you're going to spend a large amount of money on marketing, then allocate those same funds to support marketing claims.

 

[DAdams91982]

Facing jail time is silly, especially doing so based on vague language.

But don't you think supplement companies should be forced to meet certain requirements, especially with respect to label and marketing claims? If you're going to spend a large amount of money on marketing, then allocate those same funds to support marketing claims.

Nope. If there is a study to backup their claims, they have every right to market it that way.

The problem is now playing as a victim. Here is the kicker now, the consumer has every right to do their own research to make informed decisions. Playing the victim only leads to more nanny state.

With label claims, yes, if it is on the label it needs to be in there, if it isnt on the label, it better not be in there.

 

[southpaw23]

Nope. If there is a study to backup their claims, they have every right to market it that way.

The problem is now playing as a victim. Here is the kicker now, the consumer has every right to do their own research to make informed decisions. Playing the victim only leads to more nanny state.

With label claims, yes, if it is on the label it needs to be in there, if it isnt on the label, it better not be in there.

The onus shouldn't be on the consumer to disprove marketing claims, it should be on the company, especially since it's consumer dollars that grow the business.

Anyone can cite a study conducted in 1948, without knowing what the variables were and how that dictated the outcome of the study, those studies aren't substantive. If you're asking me to spend money on your product, then support your claims, if your claims turn out to be false then you shouldn't be allowed to operate a lemonade stand. You and I both know that those "studies" and I use that term loosely, aren't conclusive one way or the other, with respect to proving or disproving marketing claims. There was a study cited that said the effects of CEE were greater than that of c-monohydrate, which it turns out was not the case. The relationship between consumer and business is based on reciprocity not misleading the consumer, based on one study conducted in 1938 in a village in Indonesia by a witch doctor. This issue shouldn't be politicized, if supplements can't regulate themselves effectively (venom,jungle warfare, meridian etc), then they need to be put out of business. That's why only I support a handful of companies like MAN or Driven Sports, they earn my business by doing things the right way. Anyway just my two cents, I don't feel the need to turn this into a political campaign ad.

 

[DAdams91982]

The onus shouldn't be on the consumer to disprove marketing claims, it should be on the company, especially since it's consumer dollars that grow the business.

Anyone can cite a study conducted in 1948, without knowing what the variables were and how that dictated the outcome of the study, those studies aren't substantive. If you're asking me to spend money on your product, then support your claims, if your claims turn out to be false then you shouldn't be allowed to operate a lemonade stand. You and I both know that those "studies" and I use that term loosely, aren't conclusive one way or the other, with respect to proving or disproving marketing claims. There was a study cited that said the effects of CEE were greater than that of c-monohydrate, which it turns out was not the case. The relationship between consumer and business is based on reciprocity not misleading the consumer, based on one study conducted in 1938 in a village in Indonesia by a witch doctor.

Again, a company makes a claim, and the consumer can choose to accept the claim or move on. You already answered your own question, if you choose not to accept, move on with your money, there is no big secret here.

My question, why would a study done at a university published and peer reviewed be less worthy than a study done by a supplement company with a budget less than 1/1000 of the university?

The whole victim card is why people are accepting the nanny state we are moving into. To many people cry, oh, I spilled hot coffee on my lap while on the phone and driving... the marketing claims didnt say the coffee was hot.

For ****s sake people.

 

[southpaw23]

Again, a company makes a claim, and the consumer can choose to accept the claim or move on. You already answered your own question, if you choose not to accept, move on with your money, there is no big secret here.

My question, why would a study done at a university published and peer reviewed be less worthy than a study done by a supplement company with a budget less than 1/1000 of the university?

The whole victim card is why people are accepting the nanny state we are moving into. To many people cry, oh, I spilled hot coffee on my lap while on the phone and driving... the marketing claims didnt say the coffee was hot.

For ****s sake people.

Look not every issue needs to be turned into a political statement. I get it Ron Paul is Yoda.

You're correct it's the consumer's choice that ultimately dictates the future success of a business, by way of the almighty dollar. I just think that in an industry where you think you're taking a fat-burner, to help bring you closer to leading a healthier lifestyle, then come to find out it contains meridian,steroids, or protein powder content is way less than what is stated on the label, something needs to be done to put those companies out of business.

 

[DAdams91982]

Look not every issue needs to be turned into a political statement. I get it Ron Paul is Yoda.

You're correct it's the consumer's choice that ultimately dictates the future success of a business, by way of the almighty dollar. I just think that in an industry where you think you're taking a fat-burner, to help bring you closer to leading a healthier lifestyle, then come to find out it contains meridian,steroids, or protein powder content is way less than what is stated on the label, something needs to be done to put those companies out of business.

I said label claims must be met. Albeit handing more power to the FDA is a bit scary.

You went on with marketing and advertising. Two separate issues here. Laws are already in place about label claims. Ask Palo Alto Labs about the tainted Aspire with Sildinifinil analog, or ALRI about the meridia tainted Venom. The government can already punish those for that reason.

 

[southpaw23]

I said label claims must be met. Albeit handing more power to the FDA is a bit scary.

You went on with marketing and advertising. Two separate issues here. Laws are already in place about label claims. Ask Palo Alto Labs about the tainted Aspire with Sildinifinil analog, or ALRI about the meridia tainted Venom. The government can already punish those for that reason.

Understood with respect to both Palo Alto and ALRI, however, my contention is that marketing claims should have a similar threshold, not based on one study conducted by the smoking baby kid in a small village in Indonesia.

I'm against FDA oversight of the supplement industry on principal, but I despise even more so companies run by individuals with no background in science, making wild claims, substantiated by one study that was conducted back in 1918. That's why I put my trust in individuals like Matt Cahill/ PA both of whom share an educational background that lends itself to credibility.

 

[DAdams91982]

Understood with respect to both Palo Alto and ALRI, however, my contention is that marketing claims should have a similar threshold, not based on one study conducted by the smoking baby kid in a small village in Indonesia.

Again, why does in house testing hold more weight than a peer reviewed study, accepted by the research community?

A company can make a claim based on their research and provide references.

 

[DAdams91982]

Understood with respect to both Palo Alto and ALRI, however, my contention is that marketing claims should have a similar threshold, not based on one study conducted by the smoking baby kid in a small village in Indonesia.

I'm against FDA oversight of the supplement industry on principal, but I despise even more so companies run by individuals with no background in science, making wild claims, substantiated by one study that was conducted back in 1918. That's why I put my trust in individuals like Matt Cahill/ PA both of whom share an educational background that lends itself to credibility.

Holy crap, how many times are you going to edit your posts? It gets hard to keep up when I see 4 edits.

That is the beauty of free enterprise my friend. One study back from the dawn of time is good enough to explore further. If the products do not work, or do no do as intended, then the company will be phased out by free enterprise. You do remember when Matt put out Divinil correct? Based on one study in Japanese from some "Back house" researcher right? And proof is in when people started dosing Activate and showing it was gold. That research proved to be substantial... or how about Epi? That was some Japanese study again.

But you can keep acting like research means nothing.

 

[southpaw23]

Again, why does in house testing hold more weight than a peer reviewed study, accepted by the research community?

A company can make a claim based on their research and provide references.

Because if that's the case....anyone can do it, doesn't mean those "studies" are valid, based on certain variables.

An impartial study should be conducted by a third party, with no financial interest in the outcome, that lends itself to credibility. In-house studies are hardly impartial.

 

[DAdams91982]

Because if that's the case....anyone can do it, doesn't mean those "studies" are valid, based on certain variables.

An impartial study should be conducted by a third party, with no financial interest in the outcome, that lends itself to credibility. In-house studies are hardly impartial.

Then my friend.. you can throw out your DS bottles, your RPN bottles, and about any other bottle of supplements beyond MuscleTech. Funding a third party study is not cheap, and no venture capitalist would back someone to upstart a company like that.

You cannot have it both ways. You can get cheap, effective product based on research done in the medical community, or you can buy MuscleTech with the budget to run their own studies, then overpay even more because of their new overhead.

 

[DAdams91982]

Oh, and lets not forget when a company funds research, it tends to turn out a certain way.

 

[SBT]

Got this to my email the other day... some bs!!!

 

[southpaw23]

Holy crap, how many times are you going to edit your posts? It gets hard to keep up when I see 4 edits.

That is the beauty of free enterprise my friend. One study back from the dawn of time is good enough to explore further. If the products do not work, or do no do as intended, then the company will be phased out by free enterprise. You do remember when Matt put out Divinil correct? Based on one study in Japanese from some "Back house" researcher right? And proof is in when people started dosing Activate and showing it was gold. That research proved to be substantial... or how about Epi? That was some Japanese study again.

But you can keep acting like research means nothing.

I always edit after the fact, by habit. Never to change my pov, only to make sure I'm conveying it in a way that is tangible.

Again Matt took those studies and went further by revealing blood test results (Divanil) that supported his claims. He went the extra step and in doing so it earned him respect throughout the industry, same thing with Patrick Arnold, they don't just cite abstract studies, by way virtue of their chemistry backgrounds they clearly understand "science", and take those studies further by producing effective products. Some supplement companies are headed up by individuals with no background in science/chemistry, who simply put out products based on obscure studies that aren't conclusive.

 

[southpaw23]

Then my friend.. you can throw out your DS bottles, your RPN bottles, and about any other bottle of supplements beyond MuscleTech. Funding a third party study is not cheap, and no venture capitalist would back someone to upstart a company like that.

You cannot have it both ways. You can get cheap, effective product based on research done in the medical community, or you can buy MuscleTech with the budget to run their own studies, then overpay even more because of their new overhead.

Assuming of course that those products are effective. In any event I already stated I'm against FDA oversight. I'm also against marketing pseudo-science.

 

[DAdams91982]

I always edit after the fact, by habit. Never to change my pov, only to make sure I'm conveying it in a way that is tangible.

Again Matt took those studies and went further by revealing blood test results (Divanil) that supported his claims. He went the extra step and in doing so it earned him respect throughout the industry, same thing with Patrick Arnold, they don't just cite abstract studies, by way of there chemistry backgrounds they understand "science". Some supplement companies are headed up by individuals with no background in science/chemistry, who simply put out products based on obscure studies that aren't conclusive.

Ah, i think I get it now, you weren't around for the start-up of DS. You realize it did not start the way you think it has. And lets not forget, your idea here is not third party testing in a supposed controlled environment.

So medical studies are not good because there could be other variables, but in house testing of someone who isn't controlled is?

And let this not get confusing... I love DS and their products, it is not meant any ill will toward them, but your argument is full of holes here. Matt is a brilliant guy and will continue success.

 

[Robboe]

Robboe I agree, however, Johnson and Johnson has a certain threshold that must be met, prior to releasing products for general consumption. Supplement companies do not. As an example your claims regarding Triazole and AX are supported by blood tests, and comes as close to scientific validation as possible. You know many supplement companies, especially smaller ones, simply use abstract studies conducted over 30 years ago, extrapolate those studies and then apply them to the general public, now knowing whether or not the science behind their products actually pair up with their marketing claims. I think supplement companies should have to meet a certain threshold with respect to their marketing claims. If a company claims that my test levels will jump 200% in two weeks, prove it or be gone, this will ultimately benefit those companies that are doings the right way.

I totally agree, they HAVE to be held to a high standard. But given ALL of their stringent quality control and quality assurances, how did contaminated product even make it out of the factory? A certain threshold has to be met prior to release - they didn't, but the product was released anyway. No threats of jail time from the FDA.

In addition, something i learned just this week is that there is a silent recall of Motrin occuring. J&J are referring to it as a "soft market withdrawal" even though the FDA wanted it to be a "national recall". The reason for this is that the FDA can't actually enforce recalls, they can only suggest them. Great "administration".

http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/j-j-no-written-deal-fda-phantom-recall/2010-09-23

 

[southpaw23]

Ah, i think I get it now, you weren't around for the start-up of DS. You realize it did not start the way you think it has. And lets not forget, your idea here is not third party testing in a supposed controlled environment.

So medical studies are not good because there could be other variables, but in house testing of someone who isn't controlled is?

And let this not get confusing... I love DS and their products, it is not meant any ill will toward them, but your argument is full of holes here. Matt is a brilliant guy and will continue success.

Driven Sports was formerly known as Designer Supplements or am I off here?

I'm not stating that I trust a "brand", that's a stretch. Let me be clear, I trust the individuals behind the brand, especially people with chemistry backgrounds like Cahill and Patrick Arnold. In essence, when they speak on a given topic I know they have the goods to support their contentions. I'd be less inclined to listen to someone who has no background in chemistry and/or science. Again if a company makes a claim that states your test levels will jump up 200%, then validate those claims, in turn you'll earn consumer trust along with my business, which is a healthier long term business strategy.

 

[southpaw23]

I totally agree, they HAVE to be held to a high standard. But given ALL of their stringent quality control and quality assurances, how did contaminated product even make it out of the factory? A certain threshold has to be met prior to release - they didn't, but the product was released anyway. No threats of jail time from the FDA.

In addition, something i learned just this week is that there is a silent recall of Motrin occuring. J&J are referring to it as a "soft market withdrawal" even though the FDA wanted it to be a "national recall". The reason for this is that the FDA can't actually enforce recalls, they can only suggest them. Great "administration".

http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/j-j-no-written-deal-fda-phantom-recall/2010-09-23

Agreed.

 

[Robboe]

Driven Sports was formerly known as Designer Supplements or am I off here?

When Designer went out of business the product designs and names were sold to Driven Sports, along with some of the staff.

 

[southpaw23]

When Designer went out of business the product designs and names were sold to Driven Sports, along with some of the staff.

That's exactly how I understood it.