DAA and estrogen
- 07-22-2010, 08:39 PM
DAA and estrogen
been wondering this about for a few days, maybe i'm beating a dead horse, there's alot of you on here that know more than me.
D-Aspartic Acid is all the rage right now in sports supplements. it has the potential to boost testosterone via multiple pathways, but there is a hidden danger that ALL people need to know about when using this popular bodybuilding product. That danger is from increased estrogen production via aromatase.
D-Aspartic Acid and it's analogs D-Sodium-Asparate and N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid are becoming very popular with bodybuilders looking to boost their testosterone to the very highest levels. However this has a very ugly side effect that could potentially make this innocent supplement the devil in disguise. It works by increasing something called steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein, which is a critical enzyme in the production of testosterone. It is found in the testes and is a rate limiting step in the creation of testosterone. Increasing the activity of StAR is one of the main ways that DAA helps the body make more testosterone and it was shown in human studies that D-Aspartic Acid can give roughly a 30% increase in testosterone production! This is amazing for a completely natural product, but that boost in testosterone has one downside that may actually be making your situation worse! The good news is that if reversed, it could actually make the conversion to testosterone even higher and could boost your testosterone levels above 30%!
Aromatase is a nasty enzyme that is responsible for converting testosterone to estrogen in the body. It is what robs the bodybuilder of the robust effects of testosterone and changes the balance of your hormones. As we age, we produce even more aromatase and that is often why you see men getting fat, soft and flabby as they get older. Aromatase and it's end product estrogen are the enemy of any man wanting to keep that rock hard physique and feel his best! Unfortunately it seems that the "holy grail" of supplements D-Aspartic Acid may actually cause the body to produce more aromatase, which is something you definitely don't want! Making all of that extra testosterone isn't going to do you much good if a large part of it converts to estrogen in the body, so you want to stop that from happening! It has been shown in the literature that D-Aspartic Acid can increase testicular aromatase levels, making your testosterone to estrogen ratio sub par (1,2,3) which can certainly be an issue for the bodybuilder. Luckily, you can add in some very potent aromatase inhibitors that will stop the conversion of testosterone to estrogen by binding and locking up aromatase! You will want to use a combination of a competitive inhibitor of aromatase and a suicide inhibitor of aromatase to maximize the benefits of D-Aspartic Acid!
Two aromatase inhibitors are on the market that will do the job quite nicely and they are very potent. The combination of these should give you all the boost you need to really check the aromatase enzyme and keep estrogen levels down! That combined with a pure D-Aspartic Acid product will give you a solid one-two punch that will deliver results! The first ingredient is 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One, which is a competitive inhibitor of aromatase that is in the same potency range as prescription drugs used by bodybuilders to reduce estrogen, like Arimidex(R). 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One has a very strong affinity for the aromatase enzyme, giving an almost drug like inhibition! This will work great with D-Aspartic Acid and it's analog N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid at reducing that testicular aromatase and increasing testosterone even further. The competitive inhibitor will benefit from a suicide inhibitor, which are getting harder to find these days! The only one really left on the market is 3-Beta-Hydroxy-Urs-12-En-28-Oic Acid, which is a fairly weak suicide inhibitor, but it is very effective in combination with the above mentioned 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One! The combination of these two is a very good addition to any D-Aspartic Acid cycle and should always be used in my opinion.
One product on the market has both 2-Phenyl-Di-Benzyl-Benzopyran-4-One and 3-Beta-Hydroxy-Urs-12-En-28-Oic Acid in addition to Ginger extract which should also supercharge the effects of D-Aspartic Acid and that is Formadrol Extreme from LG Sciences (also called Forma-D on some web sites). Ginger increases conversion of cholesterol to testosterone as well, making it a natural stack with D-Aspartic Acid. So, Formadrol has it all when it comes to being stacked with D-Aspartic Acid and the only formula that I know of that has both aromatase inhibitors.
So, there you have it! D-Aspartic Acid is an exciting supplement that can certainly increase testosterone, but it should be stacked with aromatase inhibitors for maximal effects!
1) Amino Acids. 2007 Jan;32(1):45-51. Epub 2006 Jun 1. Involvement of D-Asp in P450 aromatase activity and estrogen receptors in boar testis. Lamanna C, Assisi L, Botte V, Di Fiore MM. Department of Life Sciences, Second University of Naples, Caserta, Italy.
2) J Endocrinol Invest. 2006 Feb;29(2):141-6. Endogenous testicular D-aspartic acid regulates gonadal aromatase activity in boar. Lamanna C, Assisi L, Botte V, Di Fiore MM. Department of Zoology, University of Naples 'Federico II', Naples, Italy.
3) Reproduction. 2001 May;121(5):803-8. Enhancement of aromatase activity by D-aspartic acid in the ovary of the lizard Podarcis s. sicula. Assisi L, Botte V, D'Aniello A, Di Fiore MM. Department of Zoology, Faculty of Science, University of Naples, Via Mezzocannone 8, 80134 Naples, Italy
- 07-22-2010, 11:26 PM
I agree with alot of this- except estrogen isnt bad- in controlled amounts- estrogen plays an important part in males hormonal functioning.
But I do agree we dont want a massive amount of t to convert into estrogen via armotase
For the reason that estrogen is helpful to the body in controlled amounts i suggest a SERM
SERMS do not KILL estro like AI"s do they merely help regulate with the uptake of estrogen and which sites it binds too-Thus estrogen is still present in the body and functioning the way we body builders want it tooTest e/dbol/epi/winnie
- 07-23-2010, 12:51 AM
how about DAA with the new product from DS which is a letro type AI~ IRON LIVERô________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]
07-23-2010, 06:05 AM
i agree schwell, you need the estro to keep homeostasis but cycling a serm with daa would beat up the liver right? i'm using tcf for my h drol pct alongside nolva so i should be fine in that regards, but after pct when i'm not on nolva i still want to use daa but obviously don't want huge amounts of aromatase.
07-23-2010, 08:28 AM
so then with this post in mind, are the "ai's" in propadrol ep sufficiant?
for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come 1 Tim 4:8
07-23-2010, 11:58 AM
08-02-2010, 11:32 AM
I'm currently stacking TCF-1 and Formadrol X. I'm only on day 3 so time will tell.
08-02-2010, 11:48 AM
Honestly I think it's not that big of an issue. I've seen several bloodworks from cycles of testforce and the E levels were slightly high only.
08-02-2010, 03:02 PM
i've been using it in my pct so i'll have labs drawn in a couple weeks to compare.
08-02-2010, 03:55 PM
I have been using DAA for months now and estrogen has not been any issue. I don't like aromatase inhibitors because they also decrease DHT levels.
08-02-2010, 04:20 PM
08-03-2010, 10:19 AM
08-03-2010, 07:17 PM
Somewhere I read someone saying that DAA will raise prolactin levels..Is this true and if so is Vitex suggested to be used during cycle?
08-03-2010, 07:27 PM
08-03-2010, 07:28 PM
so im going to assume this was written by LG Sciences?
08-03-2010, 07:33 PM
08-03-2010, 07:59 PM
- 5'10" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Rep Power
You guys have to understand that even raising total test by 200 points should likely only equate to 3 or 4 points of rise in estrogen. Its not like injecting and going from a total test of 700 to a total test of 3000+. Plenty of guys use 500mg of testosterone a week without an AI, theres nothing in the mechanism of DAA that been shown to lead to higher aromatization than injected testosterone.
08-03-2010, 08:00 PM
I know the suggested dosage is 3 grams...Anyone ever try this standalone and/or with a higher dosage? And is it safe to stack with 1,3-dimethylamylamine at 25 mg ?
08-03-2010, 08:08 PM
i didnt really want to say it but it seems to be scare tactic marketing to sell more product. If companies were suggesting stacks it would be a better idea then scaring people by saying that they need an AI to take DAA or theyll end up with gyno
but in the case of EST Propadrol EP thats a good product and they didnt market DAA as needing an AI but they just have a solid test booster.
08-03-2010, 08:20 PM
08-04-2010, 10:17 AM
- 5'10" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Rep Power
01-17-2011, 10:14 PM
I don't know if this is related to estrogen or not, but I noticed when I was taking DAA that it made me very spacey and forgetful.
01-19-2011, 04:21 PM
01-20-2011, 11:04 PM
01-20-2011, 11:09 PM
01-21-2011, 09:07 AM
So basically this stuff is great for a test booster, won't raise test levels high enough to really mess with estrogen to bad, and is not hard on the liver. Is great for PCT. How about effect's on prolactin levels?
04-05-2011, 07:32 PM
So, what would be a dosage of DAA and Arimidex that you would suggest?
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