REALLY want to understand - Is there any scientific reason to want a "Pump"

[goonstopher]

"Pump" products are just about the most widely used supplements on this board and really in general (besides maybe protein). Still, I never hear anyone question... WHY?

I hear people claim "nutrient shuttling" but have never seen any proof of this and it sounds like over simplification of the concept.

Heck, the little research I could find actually suggests that a pump acts as a negative feedback loop used by the body to cut down on peak contractile strength to prevent injury.

Fascia stretching might be a legitimate reason but I highly doubt that most trainers are doing extreme stretching to benefit from this...

SO - Can anyone give me a solid reason, other than psychological, that we have any reason to care about a "pump"???

 

[bigrobbierob]

Arnold on the pump

“Not many people understand what a pump is. It must be experienced to be understood. It is the greatest feeling that I get. I search for this pump because it means that that my muscles will grow when I get it. I get a pump when the blood is running into my muscles. They become really tight with blood. Like the skin is going to explode any minute. It’s like someone putting air in my muscles. It blows up. It feels fantastic.”

“Body building should be fun because you get a feeling of satisfaction which is very hard to explain. A body builder knows when he pumps up his muscles it means growth. The muscles grow. So therefore he knows when he pumps up well, that is progress. And that satisfies him because he feels the progress in his body. Therefore the pump feels good. It’s actually the best feeling a body builder can have. It’s a difficult thing to explain. Like sometimes we joke around and we get a good pump and we say you have to admit that a good pump is better than coming. Somebody off the street wouldn’t understand that, but sometimes a pump is the best feeling you can have.”

 

[goonstopher]

Ok thanks but that only serves to further what I was saying... The "pump" seems to be superficial or even detrimental.

 

[freefall365]

"I am cumming day and night"

 

[reptone]

While experiencing a "pump" the blood on your body is engourging your muscles. Blood carries nutrients, oxygen, etc to the muscles. You are being force fed protein, carbs, drugs, whatever is pulsing through your veins. It`s like having a hard on throughout your entire body.

 

[bigrobbierob]

Ok thanks but that only serves to further what I was saying... The "pump" seems to be superficial or even detrimental.

I have no idea what you read....I don't see that at all.

While experiencing a "pump" the blood on your body is engourging your muscles. Blood carries nutrients, oxygen, etc to the muscles. You are being force fed protein, carbs, drugs, whatever is pulsing through your veins

This.

 

[deadaim]

The pump is a bodily response to muscles that require more blood (for oxygen) and is beneficial in that regard. Its not going to make you get more nutrients, that a ridiculous claim. But it is helping you at that specific moment in time.

Your body has feedback systems that respond to stimuli, you start lifting and those muscles fire feedback that tells your body they need more blood to operate efficiently.

Hope that helps !

 

[PublicEnemy]

I'm going to have to play the devil's advocate and ask is that actually going to aid in recovery/muscle growth?

i.e. any scientific citations or physiological studies that indicate an increased pump DOES have muscular benefit?

 

[goonstopher]

I'm going to have to play the devil's advocate and ask is that actually going to aid in recovery/muscle growth?

i.e. any scientific citations or physiological studies that indicate an increased pump DOES have muscular benefit?

Exactly...

Bro-science is all I keep hearing.

 

[PublicEnemy]

Exactly...

Bro-science is all I keep hearing.

I agree. A lot of it is great in theory, but that is about it. There is no hard empirical evidence to support it that I know of.

 

[rochabp]

volumanization, waste removal?, thats all i could think of...oh yeah "and it feels like im cumming in the gym...its like im cumming 24/7"~Arnold

 

[reptone]

I agree. A lot of it is great in theory, but that is about it. There is no hard empirical evidence to support it that I know of.

I can only base my theory on what I feel. I get better pumps from certain foods so logically I believe "pumps" help feed the muscle. Whether there is science behind this, I don`t know. I can only speak on what my body tells me.

 

[Outstanding]

I agree. A lot of it is great in theory, but that is about it. There is no hard empirical evidence to support it that I know of.

I gave you reps for using the word empirical. Nice!

Also interested in seeing how this thread evolves and studying the dichotomy of theory that exists between the schools of thought (beneficial/detrimental). I must admit I have never read anything that implies or conveys vasodilation as a deleterious retroaction though...

 

[bigrobbierob]

here

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1463

http://ajpheart.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/253/5/H993

http://www.ecmjournal.org/journal/papers/vol006/pdf/v006a01.pdf

I wish the damn squints would learn plain English though.

 

[PublicEnemy]

Also interested in seeing how this thread evolves and studying the dichotomy of theory that exists between the schools of thought (beneficial/detrimental). I must admit I have never read anything that implies or conveys vasodilation as a deleterious retroaction though...

Reps for the deleterious retroaction... And it is not that I think the "pump" is detrimental, I just don't think that products that "induce" it are necessary. IMO a lot of the ingredients they use are worthless (ummm arginine?). There are a few that I know are extremely effective. And I love a good pump too. PlasmaJet used to give me full on body boners. But like I said, I haven't found any empirical evidence that says larger pumps= larger muscle growth.

here

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1463

http://ajpheart.physiology.org/cgi/c...act/253/5/H993

http://www.ecmjournal.org/journal/pa...df/v006a01.pdf

I wish the damn squints would learn plain English though.

Nice finds, and I completely agree about those damn squints. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I got from those three studies, if I missed something I'd be glad if you pointed it out.

[1] Conclusions In summary, this study suggests that the skeletal muscle pump is important in the maintenance of MAP during recovery from submaximal exercise.

[2] "Emphasis is directed toward the hypothesis that the "muscle pump" is an important determinant of perfusion of active skeletal muscle."

[3] Basically it is an outlined hypothesis for (exercise) increased vasodilation in skeletal muscle affecting physiological responses in osteocytes, osteoblasts, and osteoclasts. I also found this interesting-

We are not suggesting that the vessels supplying muscle feed bone (some which come through tendons do). We are saying that vessels feeding bone have
to traverse compartments occupied by muscle. Their flow will be affected by muscle contraction.

Posted by the authors in the discussion section of the pdf. I also found this article by far the most confusing.

I don't see anything that suggests what I said previously bigger pump=bigger muscle growth. Nice find however, those were interesting reads.

 

[Outstanding]

Reps for the deleterious retroaction... And it is not that I think the "pump" is detrimental, I just don't think that products that "induce" it are necessary. IMO a lot of the ingredients they use are worthless (ummm arginine?). There are a few that I know are extremely effective. And I love a good pump too. PlasmaJet used to give me full on body boners. But like I said, I haven't found any empirical evidence that says larger pumps= larger muscle growth.

Ahhh, I do what I can

I have been using Plasmajet for five months straight, I truly enjoy it and also admit the pump is more of something I chase merely for self gratification and fulfillment during the workout; what else are mirrors and dumbbells for? Haha

 

[Outstanding]

I've been doing some research since I first saw this post... and wanted to share a small snippet of a finding I ran across:

"Nitric oxide synthase is an enzyme responsible for converting L-arginine into nitric oxide (NO). It is also the source of the highly sought-after pump. Today current research suggests that NO is more than just a vasodilator for good muscle pumps— it actually kick starts the muscle hypertrophy process.

Previous studies reported that a spike in NO production triggers the release of hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) from its binding to the muscle extracellular matrix, leading to activation of satellite cells for muscle growth.1,2 This means that acute spikes in NO can enhance the anabolic response to exercise."

The post in its entirety can be found here: http://www.musculardevelopment.com/articles/supplements/2406-glycine-propionyl-l-carnitine-a-review-of-the-literature.html

The article focuses mostly on GPLC - which has also been shown to increase peak power, along with its well known/documented ability to increase NO

 

[PublicEnemy]

Hepatocyte Growth Factor hmmm...? From a quick search, all I've seen that it acts on is endothelial, epithelial, and hemotopoietic progenitor cells (cells that produce blood components). I read through the abstract of the first citation and saw nothing on HGF, I did a quick search for the second but wasn't able to find anything through google scholar. I'm not discounting it, I just find it interesting that they indicated that.

Good find.

 

[rochabp]

arginine is awesome if your an obese rat
YouTube- Arginine and nitric oxide increase fat burning and decrease fat production

 

[eatingisfun]

volumanization, waste removal?, thats all i could think of...oh yeah "and it feels like im cumming in the gym...its like im cumming 24/7"~Arnold

Of course Arnold was screwing with people when he was saying that. He was a big BSer in Pumping Iron.