what is the best liver protectant supp

  1. Registered User
    ersatz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    The carnival of American decay on parade
    Posts
    1,311
    Rep Power
    784

    what is the best liver protectant supp


    Maybe the wrong forum to be posting in but I figure everyone taking a methyl should be taking one. Is Milk Thistle enough, or 1fast's liver supp or how about r-ala? I was thinking of just using r-ala but I haven't seen a recommended dosage as far as restoring liver enzymes. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

  2. Registered User
    propho's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  218 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    VA
    Age
    33
    Posts
    989
    Rep Power
    8140

    sledge was saying 600mg's of r-ala for regular peepz increase dosage if you are a big guy.. I use both 1fast400's r-ala and pro-liver .. 1fast400 everything is good..
  3. Superman
    Manu20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    4,076
    Rep Power
    2173

    I take in about a gram of r-ala a day with nac.
    •   
       

  4. Superman
    Manu20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    4,076
    Rep Power
    2173

    That is when I'm on cycle...unfortunately I'm not now.
  5. Registered User
    sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    seattle/new york
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,617
    Rep Power
    959

    i've been on r-ala for a long while now, at 600mg per day. NAC's nice but havent added it to my daily supplement intake. Milk thistle is also a common supp for me. 600mg/day standarized works fine. (usualy 80% standarized so 3 -250mg caps)
    Sage
  6. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    Milk thistle and NAC, using the amounts recommended on the bottle.
  7. Super Lab Rat
    Board Sponsor
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3772

    NAC didnt do anything for liver values, its a scam. R-Ala was the only one that actually lowered enzymes. According to bloodwork done on SS, you can read his log here.
  8. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    It does help. For example, acetaminophen causes liver damage too and NAC is used for hepatic problems caused by acetaminophen:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=12948086

    Hum Exp Toxicol. 2003 Aug;22(8):453-8. Related Articles, Links

    Successful treatment of acetaminophen overdose associated with hepatic failure.

    Pajoumand A, Jalali N, Abdollahi M, Shadnia S.

    Poison Centre, Loghman-Hakim Hospital, Faculty of Medicine, Shaheed-Beheshti University of Medical Science, Tehran, Iran.

    Acetaminophen is the most widely used antipyretic and analgesic drug in the world. Acetaminophen poisoning and the following hepatic failure are not rare and are the most common indications of liver transplantation in the USA and Europe. In this case report, the patient was a 25-year old woman with hepatic failure who was brought to Loghman-Hakim Poison Centre 24 hours after attempted suicide with 100 tablets of acetaminophen, 325 mg. She was treated with N-acetylcysteine (NAC) and discharged from the hospital 12 days after admission and followed up for 1 month. In conclusion, acetaminophen poisoning should be considered in the differential diagnoses of hepatic failure. In acetaminophen-induced hepatic damage the administration of NAC must always be considered even after 24 hours of overdose.

    Publication Types:

    * Case Reports


    PMID: 12948086 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    I have to go. I will post more later.
  9. Registered User
    DougMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    CT
    Age
    30
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    241

    that is not a practical report imo. but you did say you were going to post more....
  10. Member
    jwp888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Age
    39
    Posts
    173
    Rep Power
    0

    what about primrose oil?? I used to use that years ago on an AAS cycle.
  11. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    Quote Originally Posted by DougMan
    that is not a practical report imo. but you did say you were going to post more....
    The topic at hand is dealing with the hepatotoxic effects of methyl compounds. Much of the research in the area of hepatotoxicity centers on acetaminophen and alcohol, since those are the two most common ways people induce liver damage in themselves. The use of methylated steroid compounds is not common for the public and so relatively little research is focused in that area.
  12. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    Another example of NAC helping hepatotoxicity:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11444723

    Drug Saf. 2001;24(7):503-12. Related Articles, Links

    Management of paracetamol overdose: current controversies.

    Kozer E, Koren G.

    Division of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology, The Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. eran.kozer@sickkids.on.ca

    Paracetamol (acetaminophen) is one of the most frequently used analgesics, and is the most commonly used substance in self-poisoning in the US and UK. Paracetamol toxicity is manifested primarily in the liver. Treatment with N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC), if started within 10 hours from ingestion, can prevent hepatic damage in most cases. Pharmacokinetic data relating plasma paracetamol concentration to time after ingestion have been used to generate a 'probable hepatoxicity line' to predict which cases of paracetamol overdose will result in hepatotoxicity and should be treated with NAC. However, later studies use a 25% lower line as their 'possible hepatotoxicity line'. Although adopting the original line may save considerable resources, further studies are needed to determine whether such an approach is safe. On the basis of the metabolism of paracetamol, several risk factors for paracetamol toxicity have been proposed. These risk factors include long term alcohol (ethanol) ingestion, fasting and treatment with drugs that induce the cytochrome P450 2E1 enzyme system. Although some studies have suggested that these risk factors may be associated with worse prognosis, the data are inconclusive. However, until further evidence is available, we suggest that the lower line should be used when risk factors are present. In Canada and the UK, the intravenous regimen for NAC is used almost exclusively; in the US, an oral regimen is used. Both regimens have been shown to be effective. There is no large scale study with direct comparison between these 2 therapeutic protocols and controversy still exists as to which regimen is superior. During the last few years there has been an increase in the number of reports of liver failure associated with prolonged paracetamol administration for therapeutic reasons. The true incidence of this phenomenon is not known. We suggest testing liver enzyme levels if a child has received more than 75 mg/kg/day of paracetamol for more than 24 hours during febrile illness, and to treat with NAC when transaminase levels are elevated. Paracetamol overdose during pregnancy should be treated with either oral or intravenous NAC according to the regular protocols in order to prevent maternal, and potentially fetal, toxicity. Unless severe maternal toxicity develops, paracetamol overdose does not appear to increase the risk for adverse pregnancy outcome.

    Publication Types:

    * Review
    * Review, Tutorial


    PMID: 11444723 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
  13. Jergo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,436
    Rep Power
    0

    Yeah, I wouldn't call it a scam sledge...LOL...I've seen a lot of things pointing out that it helps in restoration...just maybe not in SS's case...
  14. Jergo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,436
    Rep Power
    0

    O/T a bit but, my NAC is kinda old...like around 7 months or so. When I open it up the bottle stinks like rotten eggs. Is that normal?? Its the NAC from NOW foods...anybody else have this happen??
  15. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    NAC is converted in the body into metabolites capable of stimulating glutathione (GSH) synthesis, promoting detoxification, and acting directly as free radical scavengers.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=9577247

    Altern Med Rev. 1998 Apr;3(2):114-27. Related Articles, Links

    Clinical applications of N-acetylcysteine.

    Kelly GS.

    Alternative Medicine Review, Greenwich, CT.

    N-acetylcysteine (NAC), the acetylated variant of the amino acid L-cysteine, is an excellent source of sulfhydryl (SH) groups, and is converted in the body into metabolites capable of stimulating glutathione (GSH) synthesis, promoting detoxification, and acting directly as free radical scavengers. Administration of NAC has historically been as a mucolytic agent in a variety of respiratory illnesses; however, it appears to also have beneficial effects in conditions characterized by decreased GSH or oxidative stress, such as HIV infection, cancer, heart disease, and cigarette smoking. An 18-dose oral course of NAC is currently the mainstay of treatment for acetaminophen-induced hepatotoxicity. N-acetylcysteine also appears to have some clinical usefulness as a chelating agent in the treatment of acute heavy metal poisoning, both as an agent capable of protecting the liver and kidney from damage and as an intervention to enhance elimination of the metals.

    Publication Types:

    * Review
    * Review, Tutorial


    PMID: 9577247 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
  16. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    From the full text article (not the abstract): "As a source of sulfhydryl groups, NAC stimulates glutathione (GSH) synthesis, enhances glutathione-S-transferase activity, promotes liver detoxification by inhibiting xenobiotic biotransformation, and is a powerful nucleophile capable of scavenging free radicals."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11056417

    Altern Med Rev. 2000 Oct;5(5):467-71. Related Articles, Links

    N-acetylcysteine.

    [No authors listed]

    N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is the acetylated precursor of both the amino acid L-cysteine and reduced glutathione (GSH). Historically it has been used as a mucolytic agent in chronic respiratory illnesses as well as an antidote for hepatotoxicity due to acetaminophen overdose. More recently, animal and human studies of NAC have shown it to be a powerful antioxidant and a potential therapeutic agent in the treatment of cancer, heart disease, HIV infection, heavy metal toxicity, and other diseases characterized by free radical oxidant damage. NAC has also been shown to be of some value in treating Sjogren's syndrome, smoking cessation, influenza, hepatitis C, and myoclonus epilepsy.

    PMID: 11056417 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
  17. Banned
    lancelot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    559
    Rep Power
    0

    best is milk thistle followed by the antioxidants:ALA, NAC, C, E, etc.
  18. Registered User
    Cogar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Within 3 miles of my favorite gym.
    Posts
    387
    Rep Power
    327

    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    O/T a bit but, my NAC is kinda old...like around 7 months or so. When I open it up the bottle stinks like rotten eggs. Is that normal?? Its the NAC from NOW foods...anybody else have this happen??
    The NAC I have (different brand) does not have any smell at all. However, I believe that NOW often uses extracts for producing their supplements and these can have a residual "solvent" smell (for lack of a better description). If it always smelled like this, I would not worry about it. If it just started to smell, I would get a new bottle.
  19. Jergo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,436
    Rep Power
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogar
    The NAC I have (different brand) does not have any smell at all. However, I believe that NOW often uses extracts for producing their supplements and these can have a residual "solvent" smell (for lack of a better description). If it always smelled like this, I would not worry about it. If it just started to smell, I would get a new bottle.
    Yeah, as far as I can remember it did. It's just so strong that it seems unusual...
  20. Banned
    LittleMonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    34
    Posts
    244
    Rep Power
    0

    what about this stuff.i just got a bottle and will use it post m14add/md cycle
    http://www.herbal-provider.com/liver...=www-liv52-com
  21. Registered User
    jweave23's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  237 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,628
    Rep Power
    1459

    I have some that smells aweful too, a wonderful aroma of rotten ass

    I use milk thistle (post cycle), 600-900mg of R-ala, and 3g vitamin C daily
  22. Banned
    Brodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Age
    38
    Posts
    765
    Rep Power
    0

    I have used three different brands of NAC, and two smelled of rotten eggs (not quite, but definitely stinky), while one did not. I also have Legal Gear M5AA (Masterdrol) w/ NAC and it has the same stink, certainly from the NAC.

    I just got some NAC 600 on sale that also has 100mg of Glutathione--is this stuff even orally active?

    RE: ALA, I just increase my flax intake. Flax is so cheap and good for you, I don't see the point in buying expensive extracts.

    RE: Milk Thistle--you should "pre-treat" with milk thistle for at least five days before starting the cycle. This is waht was done in the specific studies that addressed using Milk THistle on otherwise healthy livers to protect from hapatoxic drugs. This allows for the beneficial increase in glutathione levels prior to the negative effects of the chosen oral steroid.

    RE: Hawthorne Berry:You actually need to use Hawthorne for about 6 weeks before it begins to exert desired effects.


    *I'm too busy to grab links right now, but there are a good deal of studies to this end.*
  23. Registered User
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,699
    Rep Power
    513131

    I belive they're reffering to alpha lipoic acid, not alpha lineolaic acid.

    LEF.org has an interesting read on liver supps backed up by numerous studies. Look under "acetominiphen". They point to some studies showing that NAC and milk thistle need to be taken very consistently for several months in order to recieve the liver protecting/healing benefits. They point out one study showing that sporadic use of these compounds can actually hurt a stressed liver more than not taking them at all.
  24. Banned
    Brodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Age
    38
    Posts
    765
    Rep Power
    0

    Ah-ha, silly me, I thought ALA was ALA...didn't read the fine print...glad you pointed that out.

    BTW, I agree 100% about sustained vs. intermittent use of liver protection supps. These herbs and ancillaries are mild and need time to have an effect. To think that just popping them along with a 2-week M1T cycle is really going to help that much is kind of silly.
  25. Registered User
    LM600's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    40
    Rep Power
    145

    Bump, I seem to remember reading somewhere that you need at least 6 weeks of continually taking natural/herbal supplements for them to build up in your body and 'work' or have any benefit.

    So, am I being dumb here or is R-ALA different to the ALA found in flax seed oil?
  26. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    Board Sponsor
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Rep Power
    1773

    Quote Originally Posted by LM600
    Bump, I seem to remember reading somewhere that you need at least 6 weeks of continually taking natural/herbal supplements for them to build up in your body and 'work' or have any benefit.

    So, am I being dumb here or is R-ALA different to the ALA found in flax seed oil?
    ALA in flax oil is Alpha Linoleic Acid, a fatty acid. R-ALA, or regular (racemix) ALA that you buy in pill form is Alpha Lipoic Acid, a potent anti-oxidant and glucose disposal agent.
  27. Registered User
    Redeemer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Age
    35
    Posts
    192
    Rep Power
    213

    Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    I belive they're reffering to alpha lipoic acid, not alpha lineolaic acid.

    LEF.org has an interesting read on liver supps backed up by numerous studies. Look under "acetominiphen". They point to some studies showing that NAC and milk thistle need to be taken very consistently for several months in order to recieve the liver protecting/healing benefits. They point out one study showing that sporadic use of these compounds can actually hurt a stressed liver more than not taking them at all.
    I am just curious if there are any studies (or opinions) demonstrating why sporadic use is harmful to the liver.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-13-2009, 02:22 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-10-2008, 09:05 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-09-2008, 08:19 PM
  4. what is the best supp for libido loss?
    By cnollett in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06-09-2005, 12:40 PM
  5. What is the best portable protein that's real food?
    By baham99 in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 12-02-2004, 03:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in