CARBS Only POST WRKOUT? OR Every day?

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    CARBS Only POST WRKOUT? OR Every day?


    Hello i just bought a bulk tub of PrimaForce's Carb slam. On the tub it says just to take 1-2 servings post workout. 1serving=30carbs. Doesnt say anything about non training days. Is this best? I was thinking non training days carbs would be beneficial as well cause im recovering. And what should my daily Carb intake be? Someone told me to try and take in 200grams a day, is this accurate? I weigh 200lbs. 5"11 15%bf. Thanks!@

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    only post
    unless you wnna get fat?
    i think a healthy carb intake should be somewhere from 150-200 if your not dieting.
    idk maybe im dumb and cheap but if you wanted glycogen why wouldnt you just add sugar to your protein?
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    No id rather not get fat. Im lean and i eat clean. So ur saying about 150 grams per day ONLY on training days then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcr1 View Post
    No id rather not get fat. Im lean and i eat clean. So ur saying about 150 grams per day ONLY on training days then?
    from food, i didnt mean from carb slam.
    from carb slam just add a serving after workouts only, like i said before though sugar would have been just as good for post
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcr1 View Post
    No id rather not get fat. Im lean and i eat clean. So ur saying about 150 grams per day ONLY on training days then?
    Total calorie intake is more important for dictating what will happen with your body. I am assuming you want lean gains, so you need to workout the level of calories it takes for you to maintain weight, and then add about 300kcals on top of that per day. This should be done with your total diet, not just by adding more carb powders btw.

    Save the carbslam for post-workout only, and let your diet do the rest.
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    Too many people on these forums are carb haters. You guys are aware that the RDA for carbs is 300g right? And to drain glycogen stores they say to eat sub 100? SO if youre eating 150 a day its going to take you a trip to space and back to gain some LBM unless you are VERY carb sesitive and on the juice. Just make sure that your carb sources are complex carbs and only come from simple carbs post workout. Whole grain, whole wheat, brown rice and pasta's, yams ect. (post workout use gatorade or white bread, or a white potato without the skin) the skin has fiber and slows digestin.

    And NEVER should you have carbs only post workout..Come on fellows, lets get on the nutrtion bandwagon! Read some text!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisG View Post
    Too many people on these forums are carb haters. You guys are aware that the RDA for carbs is 300g right? And to drain glycogen stores they say to eat sub 100? SO if youre eating 150 a day its going to take you a trip to space and back to gain some LBM unless you are VERY carb sesitive and on the juice. Just make sure that your carb sources are complex carbs and only come from simple carbs post workout. Whole grain, whole wheat, brown rice and pasta's, yams ect. (post workout use gatorade or white bread, or a white potato without the skin) the skin has fiber and slows digestin.

    And NEVER should you have carbs only post workout..Come on fellows, lets get on the nutrtion bandwagon! Read some text!!
    Carbohydrates are not essential nutrients, therefore while the government may have (grossly outdated?) views on recommended daily intakes, daily intake of carbohydrate is not necessary given sufficient protein.

    I am not a carb-hater, but you've written a lot of broscience there. Total calories matter.
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    Search RDA's and tell me thats outdate bro science????

    Further more, how bout you tell me more about my bro science pal? You mean like simple carbs post workout to raise insulin levels and restore glycogen stores????

    Or complex carbs to keep insulin levels low through other parts of the day. Do me a favor and pick up a book. Feel free to keep up with your daily carb intake and i'll keep up with mine and have fun gaining a .25 inch of your body parts yearly.

    Lastly, OUTDATED? Look at the back of a ****ing nutrition label and do the math. I assure you its not an OUTDATED RDA.

    Cheers.
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    Oh no he didn't! (snaps fingers in shape of triangle)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerderek0 View Post
    Oh no he didn't! (snaps fingers in shape of triangle)
    hold my earings, and my wig
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Ummm.. Im outta this!!But Robboe yeah i got that, my calorie intake is 300-500 over maintenance. Im good on the carb intake i take in natural carbs everyday. I was just wondering if the suggested use label on Priaforce's carb slam was spot on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisG View Post
    Search RDA's and tell me thats outdate bro science????
    A lot of government-recommended RDAs are based on outdated knowledge from the 70's and 80's.

    Further more, how bout you tell me more about my bro science pal? You mean like simple carbs post workout to raise insulin levels and restore glycogen stores????
    Replenishing glycogen is fine, but simple carbs post-exercise are not a necessity. Anytime you eat protein or carbs you illicit an insulin response. You don't need to focus on simple sugars to have that effect.

    Or complex carbs to keep insulin levels low through other parts of the day. Do me a favor and pick up a book. Feel free to keep up with your daily carb intake and i'll keep up with mine and have fun gaining a .25 inch of your body parts yearly.
    Want to keep insulin levels low? Fast.

    Lastly, OUTDATED? Look at the back of a ****ing nutrition label and do the math. I assure you its not an OUTDATED RDA.

    Cheers.
    I'll say it again, carbohydrates are not essential nutrients. And you have to laugh that the RDA is a generic 300g for every one. And 2500kcals is the recommended daily calorie intake for every man, regardless of body type.
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    Can I just add something to the mix here and possibly reduce the bickering?

    You're both right, Robboe stated that carbohydrates are not an essential nutrient per say this is true, that the body can create glucose from other nutrients to maintain plasma glucose levels.

    However, TravisG is also correct in that this does not mean that the human body works optimally in a low carbohydrate environment. From an athletic performance aspect, restoring glycogen levels is paramount, hence athletes are often prescribed ridiculous carbohydrate intakes (>8g/kg/lean body mass per day). Few ever make this amount (more likely 6-7g per kg at best) and walk about in a depleted state, but carbohydrate intake is not the be-all and end-all of athletic performance.

    So it all depends on your goals, for recreational training and bodybuilding (1 hour per day) 2-3g/kg LBM/day in carbohydrates is fine (works out at 200-250g/day for most people) and does NOT need to be taken postworkout to restore glycogen stores, it can be replenished over the course of the day. Some may even propose that restricting carbohydrates at this time is better for GH release, which would lead to reduced glycogen re-sythesis but greater fat burning over the rest of the day, leading to (in theory) a better overall body composition.

    I bboy and like to take part in recreational sport, so overall performance is pretty key for me. Under these circumstances, I do take my CHO post-workout and/or during training and push my overall CHO intake higher to 4-5g/kgLBM/day.

    So to the OP - Just take your CarbSlam post-training
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    U said it!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    So it all depends on your goals, for recreational training and bodybuilding (1 hour per day) 2-3g/kg LBM/day in carbohydrates is fine (works out at 200-250g/day for most people) and does NOT need to be taken postworkout to restore glycogen stores, it can be replenished over the course of the day. Some may even propose that restricting carbohydrates at this time is better for GH release, which would lead to reduced glycogen re-sythesis but greater fat burning over the rest of the day, leading to (in theory) a better overall body composition.
    Just so no one thinks i am a low-carb or paleo quack, i am pro-carbs post-workout. In fact, i have quite a lot of calories post-workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcr1 View Post
    U said it!!
    Haha, cheers mate

    Quote Originally Posted by Robboe
    Just so no one thinks i am a low-carb or paleo quack, i am pro-carbs post-workout. In fact, i have quite a lot of calories post-workout.
    Fair enough, 1g/kgLBM of carbs is usually optimal for glycogen repletion in most people, the type is usually dependent on what camp you're in I really like a combination of WMS and Dextrose so Carb Slam would be ideal, but if you were eating soon after training (<45mins) then it's possibly not needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    Haha, cheers mate



    Fair enough, 1g/kgLBM of carbs is usually optimal for glycogen repletion in most people, the type is usually dependent on what camp you're in I really like a combination of WMS and Dextrose so Carb Slam would be ideal, but if you were eating soon after training (<45mins) then it's possibly not needed.
    The type of training you're doing would also have some bearing on how much would be required. E.g. Someone engaging in a higher volume program would require a higher intake than someone on a lower volume program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisG View Post
    Search RDA's and tell me thats outdate bro science????

    Further more, how bout you tell me more about my bro science pal? You mean like simple carbs post workout to raise insulin levels and restore glycogen stores????

    Or complex carbs to keep insulin levels low through other parts of the day. Do me a favor and pick up a book. Feel free to keep up with your daily carb intake and i'll keep up with mine and have fun gaining a .25 inch of your body parts yearly.

    Lastly, OUTDATED? Look at the back of a ****ing nutrition label and do the math. I assure you its not an OUTDATED RDA.

    Cheers.

    RDA.. RDA...

    You're looking at the FDA for your nutrition guide? Good luck. lmfao...
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    This is stupid arguement! Yeh carbs may not be essential to keep you alive( they are are needed to keep your head feeling right. Otherwise you need mineral supplements) they are extremely important to body builders ALL day not just pre and post workout. Eat whatever type of carbs you want as long as they are somewhat balanced( not all sugar).

    Robbe have you ever read any of Alan aragons articles? Sounds like you need too so you can learn a balanced view of nutrition. Guys there's alot of latitude when it comes to nutrition, but all this carb timeing, slam a shake within 10 seconds of your last set, maintain low insulin levels is crap. Your body will grow no matter what if you hit your daily macros and workout hard.

    End thread/
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    Yeah, good stuff!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisG View Post
    Too many people on these forums are carb haters. You guys are aware that the RDA for carbs is 300g right? And to drain glycogen stores they say to eat sub 100? SO if youre eating 150 a day its going to take you a trip to space and back to gain some LBM unless you are VERY carb sesitive and on the juice. Just make sure that your carb sources are complex carbs and only come from simple carbs post workout. Whole grain, whole wheat, brown rice and pasta's, yams ect. (post workout use gatorade or white bread, or a white potato without the skin) the skin has fiber and slows digestin.

    And NEVER should you have carbs only post workout..Come on fellows, lets get on the nutrtion bandwagon! Read some text!!
    no its not really 300 ... thats a general number its i believe 129 or 131 whatever it is to keep you out of ketosis, the rest comes from the caloric needs that need to be met after the DRI for protein and fat are met they figure.... hey now lets just add an tremendous amoun of carbs to off set the bull**** the ADA laid out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    no its not really 300 ... thats a general number its i believe 129 or 131 whatever it is to keep you out of ketosis, the rest comes from the caloric needs that need to be met after the DRI for protein and fat are met they figure.... hey now lets just add an tremendous amoun of carbs to off set the bull**** the ADA laid out.
    you saying 129 or above will put me out of ketosis?
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    you saying 129 or above will put me out of ketosis?
    according to ADA you need to eat at that amount or above to stay out of ketosis,

    There is hardly dietary need for carbohydrates (STARCHY ONES), if you have a multi, and balanced diet otherwise.

    Unless your an endurance athlete no need, and infact ketones have been shown to be a better respitory fuel as well as brain fuel since supplies are unlimited.

    thats why wen your on low carb diet you may feel "foggy" at times, when you body is confused with what to use,.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    according to ADA you need to eat at that amount or above to stay out of ketosis,

    There is hardly dietary need for carbohydrates (STARCHY ONES), if you have a multi, and balanced diet otherwise.

    Unless your an endurance athlete no need, and infact ketones have been shown to be a better respitory fuel as well as brain fuel since supplies are unlimited.

    thats why wen your on low carb diet you may feel "foggy" at times, when you body is confused with what to use,.
    sorry for this upcoming stupid Q but whats a starchy carb? idk what it is

    so ketones are better for endurance and brain? ketones are unlimited on a low carb diet?
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    sorry for this upcoming stupid Q but whats a starchy carb? idk what it is

    so ketones are better for endurance and brain? ketones are unlimited on a low carb diet?
    ketones are converted from fatty acids and acetyl CoA

    starchy carb is something like a potato bread, pasta, ect.

    other carbs are fiberous and usually are fruit (not all), and veggies.
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    bottom line......this will always be debated lol my opinion however is that if you re trying to lean out then you can keep carbs a little lower but if you want full muscles and a lil more energy/strength up the cars. At 200lbs i see no reason why u shoul dbe under 200 carbs i mean i take in 200-250 g carbs and im only like 130 and ive stll been told plenty of tiems to eat more carbs sooooo i would say to stay around 200-250 at teh bare minimum for fat loss at your weight. just my 2 cents but liek i said, this will always be highly debated.
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    fat loss is relative, muscle preservation is another thing,

    id rather be on a keto diet, then a lower carb diet which have shown to decrease T levels and increase stress hormorn and increase the rate of catabolism.

    low carb catagorized by 30% intake of carbohydrates.

    Ketones spare muscle tissue, end of story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    fat loss is relative, muscle preservation is another thing,

    id rather be on a keto diet, then a lower carb diet which have shown to decrease T levels and increase stress hormorn and increase the rate of catabolism.

    low carb catagorized by 30% intake of carbohydrates.

    Ketones spare muscle tissue, end of story.
    how low carbs diet are we talking?
    so the no carbs is better when compared to low carbs?
    keto is no carbs high fat moderate protein right?
    so you saying kerto would be better than moederate carbs moderate fat and moedrate protein?
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    fat loss is relative, muscle preservation is another thing,

    id rather be on a keto diet, then a lower carb diet which have shown to decrease T levels and increase stress hormorn and increase the rate of catabolism.

    low carb catagorized by 30% intake of carbohydrates.

    Ketones spare muscle tissue, end of story.
    so does protein son! A high protein diet, whether ITs combined with low carbs, fats, or both is what really preserves muscle mass, which in turn preserves strength.
    My bro, dad and myself have all done lyle's PSMF (nearly no carbs or fats) just around 225 g of protein or a little more, and managed to keep almost 100 percent muscle mass. Strength stayed the same or dropped maybe 1-2 reps tops mainly because of energy. Glucose pills and a Gatorade durring workout help keep energy up.

    The people who complain about losing muscle mass while dieting are the ones who can't fight the lower calorie workouts. If you eat enough protein and workout hard, with enough volume as while, you will no lose muscle or strength.

    And why are we talking dieting? The OP wanted to know for general weightlifting nutrition not weit loss right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZamaMan View Post
    so does protein son! A high protein diet, whether ITs combined with low carbs, fats, or both is what really preserves muscle mass, which in turn preserves strength.
    My bro, dad and myself have all done lyle's PSMF (nearly no carbs or fats) just around 225 g of protein or a little more, and managed to keep almost 100 percent muscle mass. Strength stayed the same or dropped maybe 1-2 reps tops mainly because of energy. Glucose pills and a Gatorade durring workout help keep energy up.

    The people who complain about losing muscle mass while dieting are the ones who can't fight the lower calorie workouts. If you eat enough protein and workout hard, with enough volume as while, you will no lose muscle or strength.

    And why are we talking dieting? The OP wanted to know for general weightlifting nutrition not weit loss right?
    even if protein is high on calorie deficit diets its almost inevitable to preserve all muscle most of it yes but not all of it
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Thats correct, but this thread took on a new life! My question was answered a loooong time ago! Thats cool, ill take the rep. points!~^
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    even if protein is high on calorie deficit diets its almost inevitable to preserve all muscle most of it yes but not all of it
    You can preserve nearly all if you follow lyle mcdonalds workout recs. Do 6-8 sets heavy, 6-8 reps. Leave one real tough rep in the tank. Not trying to tear your muscles up where it's hard to repair but just keep the strength up. Oviously the more strength you hang on to the more muscle you hang on to. Workout each body part 2 times a week and don't allow yourself to lose more than 2 reps on any excersie now matter how much will power it takes.
    It's that simple, at least from my experiance.
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    I'd take two servings post, with protein. I've never used WMS but it's meant to be taken post workout with protein.

    Eat complex carbs, if you aren't gaining weight then add more. Your body is a machine, fuel it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcr1 View Post
    Hello i just bought a bulk tub of PrimaForce's Carb slam. On the tub it says just to take 1-2 servings post workout. 1serving=30carbs. Doesnt say anything about non training days. Is this best? I was thinking non training days carbs would be beneficial as well cause im recovering. And what should my daily Carb intake be? Someone told me to try and take in 200grams a day, is this accurate? I weigh 200lbs. 5"11 15%bf. Thanks!@

    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    Haha, cheers mate



    Fair enough, 1g/kgLBM of carbs is usually optimal for glycogen repletion in most people, the type is usually dependent on what camp you're in I really like a combination of WMS and Dextrose so Carb Slam would be ideal, but if you were eating soon after training (<45mins) then it's possibly not needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcr1 View Post
    Thats correct, but this thread took on a new life! My question was answered a loooong time ago! Thats cool, ill take the rep. points!~^
    @ OP: i agree with UKStrength on this one, i usually go for 20g carb slam + 20g dextrose mixed in my WPI (25-30g) p.w.o shake, & this done year-round regardless of whether i'm trying to bulk or cut.
    i never really liked the 2:1 carb to protein ratio recommended by some. if you really wanna see this stuff do something amazing, take 1 cap of like anabolic pump/pslin/slin-sane or anything similar, wait 15 mins, then down a mix of WMS (30-60g) mixed in some juice. insane pumps !
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZamaMan View Post
    Robbe have you ever read any of Alan aragons articles? Sounds like you need too so you can learn a balanced view of nutrition. Guys there's alot of latitude when it comes to nutrition, but all this carb timeing, slam a shake within 10 seconds of your last set, maintain low insulin levels is crap. Your body will grow no matter what if you hit your daily macros and workout hard.

    End thread/
    I've been reading Alan's stuff for years. In fact, my first sentence in this thread was "Total calorie intake is more important for dictating what will happen with your body." I am not a low carb quack or a paleo-tard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robboe View Post
    I've been reading Alan's stuff for years. In fact, my first sentence in this thread was "Total calorie intake is more important for dictating what will happen with your body." I am not a low carb quack or a paleo-tard.
    Oh than i appologize. I got the opposite impression from your firs post. I total agree cal in vers cal out is really what matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZamaMan View Post
    so does protein son! A high protein diet, whether ITs combined with low carbs, fats, or both is what really preserves muscle mass, which in turn preserves strength.
    My bro, dad and myself have all done lyle's PSMF (nearly no carbs or fats) just around 225 g of protein or a little more, and managed to keep almost 100 percent muscle mass. Strength stayed the same or dropped maybe 1-2 reps tops mainly because of energy. Glucose pills and a Gatorade durring workout help keep energy up.

    The people who complain about losing muscle mass while dieting are the ones who can't fight the lower calorie workouts. If you eat enough protein and workout hard, with enough volume as while, you will no lose muscle or strength.

    And why are we talking dieting? The OP wanted to know for general weightlifting nutrition not weit loss right?
    please show me your research, because i have 2 articles that show that low carb doesnt preserve muscle the way ketones do, and that fat burns in an AMINO acid flame.

    heres one...
    Lane, AR, Duke, JW, Hackney, AC. Influence of dietary carbohydrate intake on the free testosterone: cortisol ratio responses to short-term intensive exercise training. European Journal of Applied Physiology, 2010; 108(6):1125-1131


    heres the other
    http://www.doaj.org/doaj?func=abstract&id=241845

    just know excess protein is converted to acetyl CoA and then to fatty acids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robboe View Post
    Replenishing glycogen is fine, but simple carbs post-exercise are not a necessity. Anytime you eat protein or carbs you illicit an insulin response. You don't need to focus on simple sugars to have that effect.
    For the sake of playing devil's avocado, an insulin response does equate an insulin spike. Isn't this what many are after PWO due to the benefits of high amounts of insulin spike? Am I even using the right terminology?
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    just because protein is high doesnt mean anything. if you hit an excess you risk the gluconeogenic amino acids converting to glucose, as well as acetyl CoA for fatty acid synthesis.

    i dont know where you get all your information from. yes high protein, but excessivly high defeats the purpose.
  

  
 

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