[MakaveliThaDon]

is it possible that AP can make u more sensitive to sugar, and spike your blood sugar more than normal, especially if you are somewhat carb sensitive to begin with? like when normally 20g of dex wouldnt give u a crash afterwards, but if you take ap before hand it might spike your blood sugar more than normal? Im just wondering how to effectively use it with my diet. especially post workout. for instance normally you go for a decent amount of simple sugars post workout, but on the other hand, ap recommends u use it post workout, but recommends you need to eat complex carbs with it, not sugar. so which is it for post workout. it seems to be for me, with ap, even 1 tbsp of honey pwo gives me a sugar crash. so is it possible for ap to have an extreme effect with carbs on your blood sugar level, or am i analyzing it too much?

[Mulletsoldier]

Anabolic Pump has the opposite effect, in terms of lower serum (blood) glucose levels. It achieves this by altering the behavior of several "energy restriction" mechanisms, but most importantly, by increasing the translocation of GLUT4 from the cell nucleus to the periphery. This effectively increases glucose transport from the periphery, back into the cell, and thus lower circulating blood glucose levels.

[crazyfool405]

Anabolic Pump has the opposite effect, in terms of lower serum (blood) glucose levels. It achieves this by altering the behavior of several "energy restriction" mechanisms, but most importantly, by increasing the translocation of GLUT4 from the cell nucleus to the periphery. This effectively increases glucose transport from the periphery, back into the cell, and thus lower circulating blood glucose levels.

it will SIGNIFICANTLY raise insulin levels, but it will DROP glucose level at a statistically significant rate at around 90 minutes from studies ive seen on Corosolic acid.

but yea what mullet said.

[MakaveliThaDon]

if it significantly raises insulin levels. then there is absolutely no need for any simple sugars pwo with it?

[crazyfool405]

if it significantly raises insulin levels. then there is absolutely no need for any simple sugars pwo with it?

its correlated with the sugar intake,

lemme get you the study...

[crazyfool405]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7e4c0cdd7a9bb6

just gotta get the full article, it is there though.

The rise in insulin is what helps the drop in sugar.

[crazyfool405]

http://www.utcbanaba.com/PDF/article.pdf

full study sorry./

[Mulletsoldier]

it will SIGNIFICANTLY raise insulin levels, but it will DROP glucose level at a statistically significant rate at around 90 minutes from studies ive seen on Corosolic acid.

but yea what mullet said.

Well, in reality, berberine and CA will both tend toward reductions in insulin response over time as the PI3K/Atk dependent pathway of glucose mobilization is displaced. The lesser PI3K/Atk are activated, the lesser the IR and IR(S) are phosphorylated and their genetic expressions subsequently alter. The study you quoted was also only post-challenge, whereas more longitudinal studies on phellodendron extract have revealed lower circulating insulin levels over time, even in post-challenge situations, as compared to controls.

[crazyfool405]

Well, in reality, berberine and CA will both tend toward reductions in insulin response over time as the PI3K/Atk dependent pathway of glucose mobilization is displaced. The lesser PI3K/Atk are activated, the lesser the IR and IR(S) are phosphorylated and their genetic expressions subsequently alter. The study you quoted was also only post-challenge, whereas more longitudinal studies on phellodendron extract have revealed lower circulating insulin levels over time, even in post-challenge situations, as compared to controls.

i was talking in relation to meals, ovbiously over time the insulin levels will be significantly lower due to lower blood glucose.

the "phelledendron" or we can just call it berberine acts as an alpha glucosidase /alpha amylase inhibitor thus cutting insulin peaks and leading to an even faster normilization of blood glucose and insulin

[Mulletsoldier]

No, we can call it phellodendron, as there are several proto-berberine alkaloids which are being revealed to be equally as responsible for the induction of AMPk response as berberine itself - dihyrdoberberine, in particular. Being the berberine expert you are, though, I assume you already knew that!

And thanks for the information! (sacrasm). Incidentally - believe it or not - I know a thing or two about the MoAs afoot here.

[crazyfool405]

No, we can call it phellodendron, as there are several proto-berberine alkaloids which are being revealed to be equally as responsible for the induction of AMPk response as berberine itself - dihyrdoberberine, in particular. Being the berberine expert you are, though, I assume you already knew that!

And thanks for the information! (sacrasm). Incidentally - believe it or not - I know a thing or two about the MoAs afoot here.

lols yea i know you know the info.

isnt berberine metabolized to dihydroberberine thoguh?

[Mulletsoldier]

lols yea i know you know the info.

isnt berberine metabolized to dihydroberberine thoguh?

No, dhBBR is found in trace amounts in beberine containing plants, but is primarily a designed derivative. Berberine has four major urinary metabolites, by proportion, and dhBBR is not one of them. Its AMPk induction can be achieved in dosages 1/3 that of berberine, though it is too expensive to isolate and extract.

[crazyfool405]

No, dhBBR is found in trace amounts in beberine containing plants, but is primarily a designed derivative. Berberine has four major urinary metabolites, by proportion, and dhBBR is not one of them. Its AMPk induction can be achieved in dosages 1/3 that of berberine, though it is too expensive to isolate and extract.

good to know!

once again your the winner by submission haha

[MakaveliThaDon]

Well, in reality, berberine and CA will both tend toward reductions in insulin response over time as the PI3K/Atk dependent pathway of glucose mobilization is displaced. The lesser PI3K/Atk are activated, the lesser the IR and IR(S) are phosphorylated and their genetic expressions subsequently alter. The study you quoted was also only post-challenge, whereas more longitudinal studies on phellodendron extract have revealed lower circulating insulin levels over time, even in post-challenge situations, as compared to controls.

In other words, AP isn't a product you wanna stay on permanently for years on end, because it will gradually permanently change how your body responds and handles releasing insulin?

[Robboe]

it will SIGNIFICANTLY raise insulin levels,

Insulin sensitizers mean that less insulin release is required, not more.

[crazyfool405]

Insulin sensitizers mean that less insulin release is required, not more.

you didnt read the study then.

Thats the reason for significant drop due to activation of PI3K pathway.

It MIMICKS insulin thus the reason for higher insulin levels and a statistically significant difference at about 90 minutes.

[Robboe]

you didnt read the study then.

Thats the reason for significant drop due to activation of PI3K pathway.

It MIMICKS insulin thus the reason for higher insulin levels and a statistically significant difference at about 90 minutes.

No, i read it and i saw that your post was basically quoting what the researchers said. I find it confusing actually. Something that mimicks insulin and/or sensitizes the cell to insulin's actions should not result in higher insulin levels. Unless it has something to do with the way they measured insulin, i dunno.

In any case, isn't anabolic pump supposed to not actually contain corosolic acid? I thought it was a Lagerstroemia Speciosia tanins complex?

[Mulletsoldier]

No, i read it and i saw that your post was basically quoting what the researchers said. I find it confusing actually. Something that mimicks insulin and/or sensitizes the cell to insulin's actions should not result in higher insulin levels. Unless it has something to do with the way they measured insulin, i dunno.

In any case, isn't anabolic pump supposed to not actually contain corosolic acid? I thought it was a Lagerstroemia Speciosia tanins complex?

The Lagerstroemia extract is approximately 35% Corosolic acid and 15% tannins by proportion.

[crazyfool405]

No, i read it and i saw that your post was basically quoting what the researchers said. I find it confusing actually. Something that mimicks insulin and/or sensitizes the cell to insulin's actions should not result in higher insulin levels. Unless it has something to do with the way they measured insulin, i dunno.

In any case, isn't anabolic pump supposed to not actually contain corosolic acid? I thought it was a Lagerstroemia Speciosia tanins complex?

the researchers showed a HIGHER insulin level at 30 minutes, and no change at baseline.

and i assume thats what activated the glut4, as well as shiowed a drop in sugar at the time it did.

[criticalbench]

No, dhBBR is found in trace amounts in beberine containing plants, but is primarily a designed derivative. Berberine has four major urinary metabolites, by proportion, and dhBBR is not one of them. Its AMPk induction can be achieved in dosages 1/3 that of berberine, though it is too expensive to isolate and extract.

Good post! I did not know that!

[Robboe]

the researchers showed a HIGHER insulin level at 30 minutes, and no change at baseline.

and i assume thats what activated the glut4, as well as shiowed a drop in sugar at the time it did.

I'm starting to wonder whether this has direct effect on pancreatic cells.

[strategicmove]

Great posts, Mullet!

[Mulletsoldier]

I'm starting to wonder whether this has direct effect on pancreatic cells.

Corosolic acid indeed does exert a "restorative" effect - according to several in vitro studies - on the beta islet cells of the pancreas. Berberine, however, does not.

[MakaveliThaDon]

This is an old bump I know. I'm just wondering, if you take anabolic pump before your PWO meal, do you need less simple carbs to recover, and can thus use more complex carbs as opposed to so much sugar pwo?

[criticalbench]

This is an old bump I know. I'm just wondering, if you take anabolic pump before your PWO meal, do you need less simple carbs to recover, and can thus use more complex carbs as opposed to so much sugar pwo?

I use anabolic pump pwo, I've found it actually works good with high GI carbs; never tried it any other way. It seems like the more carbs I take in, the better it works.

Mike