Zeus Supp Report & Testofen product round-up
- 06-16-2010, 04:47 AM
Zeus Supp Report & Testofen product round-up
Big two-parter here on Testofen*:
* Testofen is a concentrated fenugreek (trigonella foenum-greacum) seed extract standardized to 50% "fenusides". This herb has potent test-boosting qualities and should not be confused with standard fenugreek, which is used for insulin control.
- Quick review of my experience with Fusion Bodybuilding Zeus
- Round-up of other Testofen-based products and request for advice
I just finished a bottle (1-month supply). The recommended 2-capsule dose of Zeus has 350 mg of Testofen, and you take two doses per day (700 mg ED). The relatively short ingredient list also contains urtica dioica (stinging nettle root) and rhodiola rosea. Bioperine and piper negrum (black pepper) are also included to aid absorption. I won't tell you how much it cost because I live in Germany these days, where buying supps makes you feel like you're getting raped, compared to the sweet deals back in the States.
I grabbed a bottle based on what I thought was a decent ingredient profile, excellent feedback on bb.com (my bad?), and the two Gencor studies on Testofen. I wanted to increase free test levels with the associated (i.e. muscle-building) benefits.
I'm less than impressed. I doubt whether I experienced the increased free test that is supposed to come from a Testofen-based product. I am still unable to find a doctor willing to do bloodwork, so I couldn't do a proper before/during/after comparison. The following will have to suffice: My strength continued to increase, but had done so before and continues to do so after. I did not increase LBM despite a suitable (heavy) training program, high-protein / high-calorie diet, and 8 h sleep per night. Other effects: Mild irritability, and that's not really the same thing as aggression and could easily be related to work-related stress. Itchy scalp, but I had that before/after anyways. No acne/bacne. No "alpha-male-like" feeling. And only mild or no libido enhancement. In short, it felt like I was taking a really expensive placebo.
1d. Negative side effects
None. It was capped and didn't upset my stomach in the least, so I did not experience any of the GI problems some people reported in the first few days of use nor the taste issues when using bulk powder. It also didn't make my urine smell like maple syrup, which I have experienced before when taking a normal fenugreek extract. No sensitive nipples as reported by some.
1e. Other products taken
Besides the usual (whey, BCAAs, glutamine, creatine, fish oil, glucosamine, EGCGs, multi-vit/min), the only other supps of note which *partially* overlapped the Zeus cycle are RPM, Drive, tribulus, and saw palmetto. Sorry I couldn't evaluate each on their own merit. I am powerless to the temptation of stacking. I often took Zeus at the same time as Drive and saw palmetto. That was the only time I "noticed" anything. But just like when taking Drive solo. I definitely respond well to icarrin. Anyways, that's another thread.
I may be a Testofen "non-responder" or require a higher dose. Let's proceed under the assumption that the latter is true.
2. Other products that contain Testofen
So I just spent a few hours reading literally all of the Testofen-related posts here on AM. I think it's fair to say that the feedback is overall positive (although admittedly many non-responders as well), so I'm not giving up on Testofen yet. But I'd like to give some other similar products a try, perhaps those with a higher Testofen content and/or those with other ingredients stacked. Below I've compiled a near-complete list of all products which contain Testofen, and I note the amount of Testofen per capsule/tablet, if given.
- Fusion Bodybuilding Zeus (175 mg Testofen/cap, also incl. urtica dioica, rhodiola rosea, Bioperine, piper nigrum
The competition (with known Testofen content), ordered by decreasing Testofen content:
- Jarrow Formulas UpDrive -- 500 mg/cap, also incl. epimedium (icariin) and maca
- Primordial Performance Phyto-testosterone -- 200 mg Testofen/cap, also incl. methy
- **** HCGenerate -- 200 mg/cap, also incl. fadogia agrestis, DIV, tribulus, vitamin E, Long Jack, Zinc
- NSI TestosteRip Extreme -- 200 mg/cap, also incl. tribulus (min. 63 mg saponins) and 25 mg forskolin
- AI TestoPro -- 150 mg/cap, also incl. Divanil, I3C, Quercetin, Bioperine
- Double-T TestX6 -- 25 mg/cap, also incl. ZMA, DIM, avena sativa
The competition (undisclosed Testofen content), in alphabetical order:
- EP2 Andritest
- IDS Testofen-X -- discontinued?
- iSatori ISA-TEST -- also incl. tribulus, ecdysterone, DIM, L-dopa, Long Jack, melatonin, and more
- Nutrabolics Hemotest -- also incl. fadogia agrestis, cissus, icariin, Long Jack, tribulus, dodder seed, rhodiola rosea, and more
- Peak Performance Fenuplast
- PrimaForce Fuze -- discontinued?
- Scivation bulk powder / Fenotest -- discontinued?
- TapOut Sprawl Test Booster Xtreme
Anything missing? Please let me know.
I mentioned already that I think I need to take a stronger product. Most people on the forums suggest starting with 600 mg ED and increase up to 0.8-1 g, e.g. 300 mg morning then 300 mg preworkout or with dinner. Zeus was dosed at 700 mg ED. Guess I've got some room to maneuver considering some people even mega-dose all the way up to 2-3 g.
I'm inclined to try a supplement which discloses its Testofen content. I generally avoid proprietary blends. TestoPro and Phyto-test are hands-down the most recommended Testofen products on AM, but that might be in part due to board reps here. Still, it puts them at the top of my list of next supp to try. TestoPro might be a bit underdosed, so I'm leaning towards Phyto-test, which would get me 800 mg ED. Thoughts?
Have you read this far? Hope you enjoyed the supp report and market research and find it useful. I welcome your advice and constructive criticism as always.
Last edited by rchaves; 06-16-2010 at 02:31 PM. Reason: updated list, also one addition
- 06-16-2010, 06:25 AM
This is some nice work. It provides a good overview with personal observations on a topic of wide interest. I would like to see more like this on similar topics. Thanks.
- 06-16-2010, 06:41 AM
i suggest you try 6 caps phytotestosterone and 6 caps activate xtreme per day for a total of 40 days, if money allows.unless of course you just want to take one product.
06-16-2010, 06:50 AM
06-16-2010, 07:01 AM
A higher dose might well be needed mate, it's a shame you didn't react well to Testofen from that particular supplement. However I would add that all companies vary in their extraction and quality control measures so it could be you just got a bad batch?
It might be worth giving it another shot with the other brands you've mentioned, we've had some great feedback from our Phyto-Testosterone, here's a log to check out if you're interested:
06-16-2010, 07:43 AM
iSatori ISA-TEST A+
SNS Online Representative
Maxximal @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com
Got Glycophase ...?
06-16-2010, 11:34 AM
To bad ! Zeus and Isa-test have been stellar test booster for me !
06-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Why exactly do you recommend stacking with Activate Xtreme? I've never tried it, but the names flies around here often.
For the time being, I'll probably stack with AppNut Drive, tribulus (Peak Performance Tribulus Terrestris Peak), and saw palmetto (if its inferred DHT-reducing properties even qualify it for this list).
Thanks for the ideas!
Last edited by rchaves; 06-16-2010 at 12:43 PM. Reason: forgot a minor point
06-16-2010, 12:57 PM
i recommend the stack because testofen and divanil compliment each other well.they are also used in the widely popular product testopro (which i havent used, despite AI being a company i like a lot).wanting to get larger doses of both actives i used 4 caps phytotest and 4 caps activate xtreme for 2 bottles each with great results (admittedly i did use some other products as well).
i recommended you to take 6 caps each because then you would be able to rule out any speculation towards dosage having been too low and wont have to bother with similar products again in the future.(if you have no results)
06-16-2010, 01:10 PM
06-16-2010, 01:19 PM
Great Product and Very Underrated
SNS Online Representative
Maxximal @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com
Got Glycophase ...?
06-16-2010, 01:25 PM
06-16-2010, 01:31 PM
yes, its a great combo.i would go for it.for me personally i think 6 caps each for 40 days would be superior as effectiveness seems to diminish over time.
06-16-2010, 02:23 PM
Last edited by rchaves; 06-16-2010 at 02:25 PM. Reason: more info
06-17-2010, 02:39 AM
Did you take the original ISA-TEST or this apparently new version called ISA-TEST "GF"? Seems the new version contains Somatrin, a proprietary blend of nettle root (95% div), macuna pruriens (15% L-Dopa), and melatonin. On iSator's website, they claim it'll increase GH levels, and misleadingly say that "Somatrin" was used in the following human study:
Meeking, DR, et al., Exercise-induced GH secretion is enhanced by the oral ingestion of melatonin in healthy adult male subjects, Eur J Endocrinol. 1999 Jul;141(1):22-6.
... but actually the study only used melatonin. Hmm. A bit of false advertising there, for sure! Guess they should change that to "a key ingredient in Somatrin", which is super annoying to read everywhere (reminds me of MT ads) but at least is more accurate/honest.
Anyway, GH elevation and advertising scandals are off-topic for this thread....
So, like the Activate Xtreme, I'm intrigued, but will probably hold off trying this right away--not because of the Somatrin thing, but because there's some ingredient overlap (tribulus, icariin, grape seed extract) with other products I'm taking at the moment
06-17-2010, 05:57 AM
06-17-2010, 09:45 AM
06-17-2010, 10:26 AM
Good posting, I've had some ok results with fenugreek and eztracts. Going to pick up some phyto test myself while its still on sale.
06-18-2010, 07:35 AM
I've been looking for an energy supp lately (more for morning use; RPM+Drive is sufficient for me pre-workout), so I just placed an order for Black Cats... can't wait to try it!
Last edited by rchaves; 06-18-2010 at 07:35 AM. Reason: forgot something
08-12-2010, 07:03 AM
The way things where broken down in the first post was kind of weird because Hcgenerate has a full 1000mg of testofen in every "full dose" of the product and a full 30 doses in a bottle. 5 caps is a full dose and it contains
Fadogia Agrestis.................1000m g
3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....5 00mg
Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg
with a price tag of 55.00+free shipping after discount
photo test gives you 800mg of testofen a day for 30 days with a price tag of 50.00+7 shipping=57.00
Then in the hcgenerate you also get pretty much Activate Xtreme. aka Divanil and zink.
7mg of zink and 3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....5 00mg . Will give it half the price tag of activate
Then within the hcgenerate you also get a bottle of omega sports t-force
Fadogia Agrestis PE 500mg per caps 90 cap bottle 1500mg a day for 30 days
hcgenerate a bit less at 1000mg a day for 30 days. So 75% the value 26.00
Add in the trip, the LJ100 and the shipping cost it takes for all the other products and what do ya get. All other products combined about 110+..... Hcgenerate 55.00
WOW and I have seen people saying hcgenerate is to expensive lmao. Good **** though I like ****ing around with this stuff. Thank you for bringing up the product man. It truly means a lot to me to see sups i have created being spoken of on so many boards across the net. A great feeling and I need some encouragement these days. The wifes been a real bitch lately bwahahaaa
08-12-2010, 09:44 AM
I have seen very few people not respond to Testopro... I myself will boost it up to 6 ed after 4-5 weeks...
Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
08-12-2010, 12:44 PM
In the original post, I was just calculating the amount of Testofen in one capsule for each product. So I was interested more in the "strength-per-capsule" rather than in the total Testofen present in the dose recommended by the manufacturer.
Your approach is also interesting... nice little financial analysis! I didn't realize that HCGenerate also included the primary ingredients in Activate Xtreme, which people have recommended I stack with, for example, Phyto-test.
But in defense of Activate Xtreme, it also contains some things that HCGenerate doesn't: icarrin (which I usually get from Drive and RPM), rhodiola rosea (which I get from Enzymatic Therapy Rhodiola Rosea), pine bark extract, I3C (which I get from SAN Estrodex), and basella alba (WTF is that?).
Hey, BTW: do you know saponin / protodioscin content of the tribulus in HCGenerate?
08-12-2010, 04:53 PM
You can try TestoPRO and get both the Testofen and Divanil that is in AX in one product.
08-12-2010, 05:07 PM
doing my own thang!
08-13-2010, 08:31 PM
08-13-2010, 09:50 PM
08-15-2010, 12:32 AM
08-15-2010, 12:41 AM
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