Why are supplements "One size fits all"

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    Why are supplements "One size fits all"


    Why is it that all supplements have one generic dosing for all, except for AN. I mean I hear a lot of people say if I am not getting results or are not feeling it, they up the dose. But how do you always know what you should feel or if you are expecting too much. I mean I am 235lbs and take the same recomended doses as my 185 training partner. So how do you know how much to take or what size guy the dosage is based on
    NOT an IFORCE rep, but their new VMS Protean is amazing. I also dropped 15lbs on the testabolan2 and rev2 stack last month.

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    Why are supplements "One size fits all"


    What is AP?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbeef View Post
    Why is it that all supplements have one generic dosing for all, except for AP. I mean I hear a lot of people say if I am not getting results or are not feeling it, they up the dose. But how do you always know what you should feel or if you are expecting too much. I mean I am 235lbs and take the same recomended doses as my 185 training partner. So how do you know how much to take or what size guy the dosage is based on
    because to do that takes up too much room on a label because there are many different start and end weights.

    Things like that is best discussed in an FAQ, however potency should be based on a 200lb man IMO, and in multiple caps per serving, so you can cut doses.
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    Maybe it should tell you that they arent size dependent .....

    lollll. brb 300lbs so need 20g of creatine. You would be hard pressed to find a chemical that doesnt work as well in a bigger person than a smaller one. Dont say alcohol.

    plus most supps are bs anyway =]
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadaim View Post
    Maybe it should tell you that they arent size dependent .....

    lollll. brb 300lbs so need 20g of creatine. You would be hard pressed to find a chemical that doesnt work as well in a bigger person than a smaller one. Dont say alcohol.

    plus most supps are bs anyway =]
    most supplements can be one size fits all, the only things that cant be IMO are the potent fat burners, proteins, pre and post workout shakes.
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    Take it from a guy in the 300lb club, not all of 'em are one-size fits all in reality. MANY things that I take and have taken do little to nothing for me at the "bottle dose". I start at that dose, but usually tinker with it upwards to find the sweet spot. That doesn't occur with one bottle, and sometimes not two. It gets expensive when you can't follow the "recommended" doses. That's one reason I don't experiment much these days!
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-AD View Post
    Take it from a guy in the 300lb club, not all of 'em are one-size fits all in reality. MANY things that I take and have taken do little to nothing for me at the "bottle dose". I start at that dose, but usually tinker with it upwards to find the sweet spot. That doesn't occur with one bottle, and sometimes not two. It gets expensive when you can't follow the "recommended" doses. That's one reason I don't experiment much these days!
    in terms of what supplements?

    hormones, fat burners, pre and post workouts?
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    AN doses their products based on weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-AD View Post
    Take it from a guy in the 300lb club, not all of 'em are one-size fits all in reality. MANY things that I take and have taken do little to nothing for me at the "bottle dose". I start at that dose, but usually tinker with it upwards to find the sweet spot. That doesn't occur with one bottle, and sometimes not two. It gets expensive when you can't follow the "recommended" doses. That's one reason I don't experiment much these days!
    "recommended" doses rarely, if ever, work for me. If I plan to running anything, I always have to look at it from a multiple bottle perspective, and how much its gonna cost me to run an ample cycle of anything.

    It sux sometimes, being a bigger guy.
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    Good question man, especially for pct's and ****, like why should every pct pretty much go 40/30/20/20 with nolva, if one guy weighs 240lbs and the other guy weighs 170lbs, why should the pct be the same? some ones getting the ****ty end there..
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbeef View Post
    Why is it that all supplements have one generic dosing for all, except for AP. I mean I hear a lot of people say if I am not getting results or are not feeling it, they up the dose. But how do you always know what you should feel or if you are expecting too much. I mean I am 235lbs and take the same recomended doses as my 185 training partner. So how do you know how much to take or what size guy the dosage is based on
    Hmmm, as was mentioned, Applied Nutriceuticals does not have a "one size fits all" dosage with the majority of our supplements, and the dosages given are for optimal effects and results re that bodyweight. There will be the anomalies who can or might need to - and will; myself included - dose higher than recommended with some products (note that dosing lower than recommended with our products is inadvisable, as you will likely not get the desired effects/results). As far as generic dosing goes - not sure how that works for most, but as T-AD said, depending on the product and your experience with it, and knowledge of your body and how it reacts to anything, you can adjust the dosage/s accordingly to fit YOU - I do this all the time (and more often than not, end up dosing the same as a male twice my size), especially since my body does not often respond the way that most others do to products. In the end, you have to find the right dosage for YOU - and if that's more (or, in some cases, less) than recommended, or at different times, etc., then so be it.

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    I think weight lifters (in general) probably fall into the catagory of the "more is better" mindset.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Scott View Post
    Hmmm, as was mentioned, Applied Nutriceuticals does not have a "one size fits all" dosage with the majority of our supplements, and the dosages given are for optimal effects and results re that bodyweight. There will be the anomalies who can or might need to - and will; myself included - dose higher than recommended with some products (note that dosing lower than recommended with our products is inadvisable, as you will likely not get the desired effects/results). As far as generic dosing goes - not sure how that works for most, but as T-AD said, depending on the product and your experience with it, and knowledge of your body and how it reacts to anything, you can adjust the dosage/s accordingly to fit YOU - I do this all the time (and more often than not, end up dosing the same as a male twice my size), especially since my body does not often respond the way that most others do to products. In the end, you have to find the right dosage for YOU - and if that's more (or, in some cases, less) than recommended, or at different times, etc., then so be it.

    ~Team APPNUT
    That is a good philosophy to have for some supplements, and a horrible one for the general public to have on others.

    I am sure you guys would not want someone doubling their dose of a stimulant product or god forbid something like Superdrol, lol. I actually know a guy that did that with SD, and he ended up with liver problems. He is trying to sue the company now because he is an idiot and did not do research.

    Then you have the morons who take 3x the dose of fat burners to get results faster.

    I know you are talking about educated users and going up slowly like the majority of us here would do, but there are those who don't understand the difference between optimal and dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSlixter View Post
    Good question man, especially for pct's and ****, like why should every pct pretty much go 40/30/20/20 with nolva, if one guy weighs 240lbs and the other guy weighs 170lbs, why should the pct be the same? some ones getting the ****ty end there..
    I wouldnt recomend that high of dosign on a 400lb man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerkanadia View Post
    I think weight lifters (in general) probably fall into the catagory of the "more is better" mindset.
    Yes, most do. I know I equated it to work or education; the more time spent doing it will equal the better results.

    Terrible philosophy to have for the long run, and with training it is the chief reason guys usually get stuck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Scott View Post
    Hmmm, as was mentioned, Applied Nutriceuticals does not have a "one size fits all" dosage with the majority of our supplements, and the dosages given are for optimal effects and results re that bodyweight. There will be the anomalies who can or might need to - and will; myself included - dose higher than recommended with some products (note that dosing lower than recommended with our products is inadvisable, as you will likely not get the desired effects/results). As far as generic dosing goes - not sure how that works for most, but as T-AD said, depending on the product and your experience with it, and knowledge of your body and how it reacts to anything, you can adjust the dosage/s accordingly to fit YOU - I do this all the time (and more often than not, end up dosing the same as a male twice my size), especially since my body does not often respond the way that most others do to products. In the end, you have to find the right dosage for YOU - and if that's more (or, in some cases, less) than recommended, or at different times, etc., then so be it.


    ~Team APPNUT
    Yeah Rosie as I was taking my drive and rpm this morning I had the thought about how solid AN products are, and why dont more companies do things like AN. I am not knocking other companies at all, there are some really solid products out there and I use their products. It is just nice to know what a good starting place is based on your weight
    NOT an IFORCE rep, but their new VMS Protean is amazing. I also dropped 15lbs on the testabolan2 and rev2 stack last month.
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    personally when i see label recommendations its the first thing to turn me off depending on how many extra servings i need to use. other wise i think about it but its not so in my face.

    id rather products be over stuffed so that the full serving is effective and you can take less to get what you want out of it if the full serving is too much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    because to do that takes up too much room on a label because there are many different start and end weights.

    Things like that is best discussed in an FAQ, however potency should be based on a 200lb man IMO, and in multiple caps per serving, so you can cut doses.
    Bingo! ive argued this for awhile. i take the dose & divide it by 200 then multiply by my goal weight. Same with caps & round it up (bottle says 8 caps, my goal BW tells me take 5.7 id take 6)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test300 View Post
    That is a good philosophy to have for some supplements, and a horrible one for the general public to have on others.

    I am sure you guys would not want someone doubling their dose of a stimulant product or god forbid something like Superdrol, lol. I actually know a guy that did that with SD, and he ended up with liver problems. He is trying to sue the company now because he is an idiot and did not do research.

    Then you have the morons who take 3x the dose of fat burners to get results faster.

    I know you are talking about educated users and going up slowly like the majority of us here would do, but there are those who don't understand the difference between optimal and dangerous.
    I never recommended doubling the dosage of anything at all - please go back and reread what I wrote. As I said, those who KNOW what they're dong can "play" with dosages (and if they are knowledgeable, they will know what they can and cannot do, etc.). However, product recommendations are in place in most part for the general user - because, yes, Unfortunately, most users of products ARE the ignorant general public, and they use whatever whenever with no method to it, often because they see or hear of someone else doing it and seeing results, etc. (which, IMO, is foolish). And those who "don't understand the difference between optimal and dangerous" should EDUCATE themselves before considering using anything, so that they DO understand and know!

    I disagree that "more is better" - and if more IS better, that, again, is dependent on the individual, what they are using, and their goal/s and needs.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigbeef View Post
    Yeah Rosie as I was taking my drive and rpm this morning I had the thought about how solid AN products are, and why dont more companies do things like AN. I am not knocking other companies at all, there are some really solid products out there and I use their products. It is just nice to know what a good starting place is based on your weight
    "Better results through science."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Scott View Post
    I never recommended doubling the dosage of anything at all - please go back and reread what I wrote. As I said, those who KNOW what they're dong can "play" with dosages (and if they are knowledgeable, they will know what they can and cannot do, etc.). However, product recommendations are in place in most part for the general user - because, yes, Unfortunately, most users of products ARE the ignorant general public, and they use whatever whenever with no method to it, often because they see or hear of someone else doing it and seeing results, etc. (which, IMO, is foolish). And those who "don't understand the difference between optimal and dangerous" should EDUCATE themselves before considering using anything, so that they DO understand and know!

    I disagree that "more is better" - and if more IS better, that, again, is dependent on the individual, what they are using, and their goal/s and needs.




    "Better results through science."

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    I apologize, did not mean to suggest you said something you did not.

    I am mainly expressing my frustration in the legality and prejudice of several compounds being unfairly scrutinized because some idiot took way to much of something bad.

    Again, I believe the people around here and elsewhere are smart enough to at least ask around, and reps like yourself will provide educated knowledge along with the contributions of other members. However a lot of people out there will just ask someone randomly at GNC or worse yet an armchair lifter for advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    in terms of what supplements?

    hormones, fat burners, pre and post workouts?
    Personally, in general, yes. Since the majority of supps out there give instructions based on an average individual, and I'm atleast 1.5 average individuals, I have to! Don't get me wrong, there are some things that work at regular doses for me, but I still have a tendency to tinker a bit with dosage to find out what is best for me. Sometimes, I go overboard with it, but only if I know what I'm doing and have a solid "exit plan" behind me.

    For example, there was a popular AI out there that was pulled off the market last year due to a contamination issue. I won't name any names here due to board rules, but if you know me it's very easy to figure out. In the past few years, I have run probably a dozen bottles of it in many different configurations. The standard dosing was 4/day, as listed on the bottle and package inserts. When stacking it with something else, like a popular free-test supplement , I would stick to 4/day. Running it solo, I took the liberty to updose it to 6/day, and gradually work my way up over the span of 2 weeks to a mega-dose of 12/day for a few days. At that point I noticed negative side effects, ramped it back down, and found that 6 to 8 was my own personal sweet spot. I would NEVER EVER recommend anyone else do this, nor would the company that produced the product. However, there were those of us on the inside loop who tested that limit in order to best assess the effectiveness, gauge when side effects would present themselves, and see what our limits were. We did, knowing what would happen, and took all necessary precautions to avoid long-term effects. There were none, but still, I don't recommend doing it.

    Personal experimentation is all about acceptable risk, and it is VERY IMPERATIVE that one be educated on the matter before doing so. I push limits to find the limits, but I also have great faith in the products and those that stand behind them. Then again, having access to some of the best formulators in the industry on a moment's notice is helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Scott View Post
    Hmmm, as was mentioned, Applied Nutriceuticals does not have a "one size fits all" dosage with the majority of our supplements, and the dosages given are for optimal effects and results re that bodyweight. There will be the anomalies who can or might need to - and will; myself included - dose higher than recommended with some products (note that dosing lower than recommended with our products is inadvisable, as you will likely not get the desired effects/results). As far as generic dosing goes - not sure how that works for most, but as T-AD said, depending on the product and your experience with it, and knowledge of your body and how it reacts to anything, you can adjust the dosage/s accordingly to fit YOU - I do this all the time (and more often than not, end up dosing the same as a male twice my size), especially since my body does not often respond the way that most others do to products. In the end, you have to find the right dosage for YOU - and if that's more (or, in some cases, less) than recommended, or at different times, etc., then so be it.

    ~Team APPNUT
    Quoted for being an excellent post! Guidelines on packages are indeed guidelines. Sometimes it is best to put exact ones down per weight, as AppNut does. Sometimes it is best to put a "safe" recommended dose down for the general populace. And sometimes it is best to put a starting value down to assess tolerance before moving further. 1 of something might be just right, eventhough the full serving is 2-3. It's a way to get the best directions out to the most people while still affording the company a little protection from those who might OD on it. People still mis-dose, but with directions clearly listed, it's their fault, not ours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerkanadia View Post
    I think weight lifters (in general) probably fall into the catagory of the "more is better" mindset.
    The uneducated ones do. Unfortunately, most are uneducated and underestimate everything. That's a waste, and dangerous!

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    personally when i see label recommendations its the first thing to turn me off depending on how many extra servings i need to use. other wise i think about it but its not so in my face.
    Honestly, that was one of the things that turned me off of AppNut when they first came out. Seeing that I needed to take the max dosage or more sent my head spinning! But back then, I was new to the game and didn't have the experience to know my limits, nor what it would entail to be in touch with myself enough to know if/when something was working. Nowadays, I agree with the doses and have succumb to the fact that either I need to become 2/3 the size I am now, or I have to shell out a few more bucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    id rather products be over stuffed so that the full serving is effective and you can take less to get what you want out of it if the full serving is too much.
    Technically speaking, they are already stuffed with the optimal dose. You just might not be the optimal size for that dose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test300 View Post
    ...However a lot of people out there will just ask someone randomly at GNC or worse yet an armchair lifter for advice.
    I know. Seriously, one should BE knowledgeable about the products that they are selling if they work in such places, but sadly, they are often the most LEAST experienced and qualified to be giving any advice about anything in the store. So many jobs require at minimum a qualification/degree and expertise in that field - pharmacists, for example, who give out prescribed medication; really, health and supplement stores should be no different re knowledge and experience, since what they sell can be just as harmful (if not more) than some prescriptions.


    Quote Originally Posted by T-AD View Post
    Personal experimentation is all about acceptable risk, and it is VERY IMPERATIVE that one be educated on the matter before doing so. I push limits to find the limits, but I also have great faith in the products and those that stand behind them. Then again, having access to some of the best formulators in the industry on a moment's notice is helpful.
    ^^^THIS!

    (And yes, people do not even bother to read the labels most of the time, when they should - it's a lazy world out there, and if people actually did their research, etc. BEFORE getting something, instead of buying a product and then asking all the questions, they would be far better off!)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Scott View Post

    (And yes, people do not even bother to read the labels most of the time, when they should - it's a lazy world out there, and if people actually did their research, etc. BEFORE getting something, instead of buying a product and then asking all the questions, they would be far better off!)


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    Serious note: research is key. Don't be like the 15 year old kids that pop up randomly saying, "I took Hdrol now my gyno is up, what do I do"

    Also, if you find something you like, buy more and test it at lower doses to see if it still works as well
  

  
 

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