If so, do you still take pre-w/o stims?
Take before stims, to protect arterial walls from the increase stroke pressure due to the stims.If so, do you still take pre-w/o stims?
hctz even at 12.5mg is a wonder drug and actually drastically alters the physique. I use it as needed, not everyday. When I do take it before bed, I wake up the next day much harder and drier with a leaner image.. obviously within reason before some 20% bf guy thinks it will make him ripped lol.I take 25mg of Hydrochlorothiazide. My blood pressure readings before I started hoovered around mid to upper 130's /80's (Not terrible, but not great). I have not check it since I have been on it.
I usually take stims daily.
X2 linsinopril (10mg) for years, take first thing in the a.m.Been on lisinopril for years....use Jack3d 5 days a week...no probs.
I take 25mg of Hydrochlorothiazide. My blood pressure readings before I started hoovered around mid to upper 130's /80's (Not terrible, but not great). I have not check it since I have been on it.
I usually take stims daily.
Are you able to take prohormones/prosteroids while on the lisinopril?Been on lisinopril for years....use Jack3d 5 days a week...no probs.
It would be stupid to take a steroid without a peripheral vasodilator, especially something as good as lisinopril which prevents renal arterial constriction.Are you able to take prohormones/prosteroids while on the lisinopril?
I am using this now as I am on cycle, first time I don't feel like crap with a constant headache, love it! And I can take stims as long as I don't go overboard with them. Coffee, a pre w/o with 200mgs of caffeine, all work just fine for me on it. Don't need it when I am off cycle though so can't say much for extended use. I will say I get mad sunburn while on this stuff if I am not careful.Been on lisinopril for years....use Jack3d 5 days a week...no probs.
You are really saving your kidneys by doing this. smart man.I am using this now as I am on cycle, first time I don't feel like crap with a constant headache, love it! And I can take stims as long as I don't go overboard with them. Coffee, a pre w/o with 200mgs of caffeine, all work just fine for me on it. Don't need it when I am off cycle though so can't say much for extended use. I will say I get mad sunburn while on this stuff if I am not careful.
Thanks, I have a good doctor who doesn't agree with using hormones/anabolics but she would rather I be healthy and use them safely so she is understanding to that degree. Now if I asked her for clomiphene I doubt that would happen, I know my limits on what she will tolerate!You are really saving your kidneys by doing this. smart man.
Mike
Thanks, I have a good doctor who doesn't agree with using hormones/anabolics but she would rather I be healthy and use them safely so she is understanding to that degree. Now if I asked her for clomiphene I doubt that would happen, I know my limits on what she will tolerate!
If I keep my daily total caffeine under 500-600mg total throughout the day I see no issues at all. Even the warning in the literature that came with it from Walgreens states that stim usage is fine as long as it is not excessive (or something of the sort). It is good to know that it is effective after a day or so of use when on cycle and when cutting the additional stims really makes it so much less painful to control calorie intake.Agreed with many others, lisinopril with monitored stim intake=good to go
Your heart rate can still become elevated on an ace inhibitor. They do not block the impulse signals of the heart controlling your rate. Beta blockers, like atenolol on the other hand do which work great with stims. I can take ephedrine, clen, etc. and get the mental stimulation, without my resting heart rate going above 70, of when doing cardio, can't get my heart rate above 130 even with HITT training.If I keep my daily total caffeine under 500-600mg total throughout the day I see no issues at all. Even the warning in the literature that came with it from Walgreens states that stim usage is fine as long as it is not excessive (or something of the sort). It is good to know that it is effective after a day or so of use when on cycle and when cutting the additional stims really makes it so much less painful to control calorie intake.
I manage my heart rate closely to prevent left ventricular hypertrophy.I don't want to be limited nor am I overly concerned with my heart rate being overly low. It is not unhealthy to have a heart rate up around 180-200 during any high intensity training, I routinely did this when I swam and played water polo in college.
I guess if that was a genetic issue I would too. Funny, my mother is a cardiac nurse and I have never once heard that mentioned as a concern in patients who are otherwise healthy; frankly I think I only ever heard it mentioned once or twice until this thread. Maybe I am missing something.I manage my heart rate closely to prevent left ventricular hypertrophy.
Mike
That's for non-steroid users. In the AAS population,Extreme LV remodeling evident in some highly trained athletes has intuitively raised a concern of whether such exercise-related morphological adaptations are always innocent. For example, ≈15% of highly trained athletes show striking LV cavity enlargement, with end-diastolic dimensions ≥60 mm, similar in magnitude to that evident in pathological forms of dilated cardiomyopathy.[SUP]1,10,21[/SUP] One longitudinal echocardiographic study reported incomplete reversal of extreme LV cavity dilatation with deconditioning; substantial chamber enlargement persisted in 20% of retired and deconditioned former elite athletes after 5 years (Figure 12).[SUP]21[/SUP] There is no evidence at present showing that athlete’s heart remodeling leads to long-term disease progression, cardiovascular disability, or sudden cardiac death. The possibility that persistence of extreme remodeling after prolonged and intensive conditioning will ultimately convey deleterious cardiovascular consequences to some athletes is perhaps unlikely but at this time cannot be excluded with certainty
andThe use of anabolic steroids concomitant with intensive resistance exercise does appear to augment left ventricular size without dysfunction
My cardiologist is similar. He feels bodybuilders main problem is that they go to the doctor for treatment, but when it is to late, when they have symptoms. He believes in preventing, rather than treating. I currently take,
20mg Vasotec (Ace Inhibitor like lisinopril)
12.5mg Atenolol (Beta Blocker)
12.5 HCTZ (Diuretic)
All to prevent left ventricular hypertrophy.
Mike
Interesting.I take clonidine which also has some physique altering effects.hctz even at 12.5mg is a wonder drug and actually drastically alters the physique. I use it as needed, not everyday. When I do take it before bed, I wake up the next day much harder and drier with a leaner image.. obviously within reason before some 20% bf guy thinks it will make him ripped lol.
Is that a year round regimen? Having someone on an Ace-I, Beta Blocker and Diuretic is pretty intense therapy. For the most serious hypertension, all we could do is add an ARB and up your dosages.
A lovely review of the heart in athletes can be found here, and a key paragraph
That's for non-steroid users. In the AAS population,
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?typ=pdf&doi=6834
and
Even with several years of AAS use, only a subclinical impairment of Systolic & Diastolic function. Length and dose of AAS were linked to severity.
Anyways, I'm sure you guys have also done your research. I think if you're not on AAS, it doesn't sound like the LVH is concerning enough to merit triple BP therapy. Heck, I am supposed to be studying peds right now, but if you have an article showing that
(Did a quick search, http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/45/1/82.short only discusses pathologic HTN and not the effects of AAS or elite athletes.)
I guess the question is whether the effect AAS have on LVH (and NOT LV Dysfunction) can be antagonized by medications like ARBs,ACE-Is, Diuretics or Eblenerone that have been studied in reversal in LVH brought about by hypertension.
You've definitely sparked my passion for this kind of stuff Love it
Purple Wraath / Intrain dont have stimsX2 linsinopril (10mg) for years, take first thing in the a.m.
I also take CoQ10 (100mg) + Hawthorn berry daily with it.
wo at noontime and have used stim products, just no need for me to use the full dose since I'm quite sensitive to them. The stuff with Yohimbine bothers me most so I stay clear of supp's that contain it.
some stim products I've used:
No shotgun V2 (can't do a full dose get too wired)
Purple wrath
Purple in train
M5
coffee
Bulk BA
AMS hyperTrop-X
Superpump250
wow, didn't know that. I'll definitely check it out. Trying to keep my BP in check naturally, my mom has been on BP meds for over an decade.Emeka, have you considered celery seed extract? at 75mg twice a day, it has been shown to be very effective for BP control. Mimics a calcium channel blocker and mild diuretic. Hawthorn extract was help as well. Mike
Anytime, glad I could help .wow, didn't know that. I'll definitely check it out. Trying to keep my BP in check naturally, my mom has been on BP meds for over an decade.
I was using the Hawthorn berry extract until i read about and researched the olive leaf extract. Will be giving the Celery seed extract a try tho, Thanks Mike!