Anyone here on BP meds?

[oufinny]

I don't want to be limited nor am I overly concerned with my heart rate being overly low. It is not unhealthy to have a heart rate up around 180-200 during any high intensity training, I routinely did this when I swam and played water polo in college.

[criticalbench]

I don't want to be limited nor am I overly concerned with my heart rate being overly low. It is not unhealthy to have a heart rate up around 180-200 during any high intensity training, I routinely did this when I swam and played water polo in college.

I manage my heart rate closely to prevent left ventricular hypertrophy.

Mike

[oufinny]

I manage my heart rate closely to prevent left ventricular hypertrophy.

Mike

I guess if that was a genetic issue I would too. Funny, my mother is a cardiac nurse and I have never once heard that mentioned as a concern in patients who are otherwise healthy; frankly I think I only ever heard it mentioned once or twice until this thread. Maybe I am missing something.

[Steveoph]

Is that a year round regimen? Having someone on an Ace-I, Beta Blocker and Diuretic is pretty intense therapy. For the most serious hypertension, all we could do is add an ARB and up your dosages.

A lovely review of the heart in athletes can be found here, and a key paragraph

Extreme LV remodeling evident in some highly trained athletes has intuitively raised a concern of whether such exercise-related morphological adaptations are always innocent. For example, ≈15% of highly trained athletes show striking LV cavity enlargement, with end-diastolic dimensions ≥60 mm, similar in magnitude to that evident in pathological forms of dilated cardiomyopathy.^1,10,21 One longitudinal echocardiographic study reported incomplete reversal of extreme LV cavity dilatation with deconditioning; substantial chamber enlargement persisted in 20% of retired and deconditioned former elite athletes after 5 years (Figure 12).²¹ There is no evidence at present showing that athlete’s heart remodeling leads to long-term disease progression, cardiovascular disability, or sudden cardiac death. The possibility that persistence of extreme remodeling after prolonged and intensive conditioning will ultimately convey deleterious cardiovascular consequences to some athletes is perhaps unlikely but at this time cannot be excluded with certainty

That's for non-steroid users. In the AAS population,
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB...p=pdf&doi=6834

The use of anabolic steroids concomitant with intensive resistance exercise does appear to augment left ventricular size without dysfunction

and
Even with several years of AAS use, only a subclinical impairment of Systolic & Diastolic function. Length and dose of AAS were linked to severity.

Anyways, I'm sure you guys have also done your research. I think if you're not on AAS, it doesn't sound like the LVH is concerning enough to merit triple BP therapy. Heck, I am supposed to be studying peds right now, but if you have an article showing that

(Did a quick search, http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals..../45/1/82.short only discusses pathologic HTN and not the effects of AAS or elite athletes.)

I guess the question is whether the effect AAS have on LVH (and NOT LV Dysfunction) can be antagonized by medications like ARBs,ACE-Is, Diuretics or Eblenerone that have been studied in reversal in LVH brought about by hypertension.

You've definitely sparked my passion for this kind of stuff Love it

My cardiologist is similar. He feels bodybuilders main problem is that they go to the doctor for treatment, but when it is to late, when they have symptoms. He believes in preventing, rather than treating. I currently take,

20mg Vasotec (Ace Inhibitor like lisinopril)
12.5mg Atenolol (Beta Blocker)
12.5 HCTZ (Diuretic)

All to prevent left ventricular hypertrophy.

Mike

[oufinny]

^^My thoughts exactly and thanks for posting that. I try to be on the least amount of prescription meds I can be on at any given time. Right now that is 3, I have asthma hence why there are two for that and one for BPl; and it used to be 4 alone for asthma! I am all about preventative maintenance, smart use of drugs like my doc giving me BP meds when it would be up for an extended period of time, but aggressive therapy when there is little risk I am never for (what options do you leave yourself with if something else comes up?). If your lifestyle changes alone and natural supplementation are not enough, then I say go the prescription route but only after all other options have been exhausted.

[Steveoph]

Good to hear Oufinny. Thought it was a neat question, so I posted it up in Dana's forum Attenuation/Reversal of AAS induced LVH

[Conagher]

hctz even at 12.5mg is a wonder drug and actually drastically alters the physique. I use it as needed, not everyday. When I do take it before bed, I wake up the next day much harder and drier with a leaner image.. obviously within reason before some 20% bf guy thinks it will make him ripped lol.

Interesting.I take clonidine which also has some physique altering effects.

[criticalbench]

Is that a year round regimen? Having someone on an Ace-I, Beta Blocker and Diuretic is pretty intense therapy. For the most serious hypertension, all we could do is add an ARB and up your dosages.

A lovely review of the heart in athletes can be found here, and a key paragraph


That's for non-steroid users. In the AAS population,
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB...p=pdf&doi=6834


and
Even with several years of AAS use, only a subclinical impairment of Systolic & Diastolic function. Length and dose of AAS were linked to severity.

Anyways, I'm sure you guys have also done your research. I think if you're not on AAS, it doesn't sound like the LVH is concerning enough to merit triple BP therapy. Heck, I am supposed to be studying peds right now, but if you have an article showing that

(Did a quick search, http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals..../45/1/82.short only discusses pathologic HTN and not the effects of AAS or elite athletes.)

I guess the question is whether the effect AAS have on LVH (and NOT LV Dysfunction) can be antagonized by medications like ARBs,ACE-Is, Diuretics or Eblenerone that have been studied in reversal in LVH brought about by hypertension.

You've definitely sparked my passion for this kind of stuff Love it

Well for me, my dosages is very small off cycle, and increase on cycle. I was diagnosed, years ago with a slight degree of lvh which sparked all of this and that was before cycling. Since then, I have started this protocol, and reversed what was enlarged and increased my ejection fraction.

Mike

[RenegadeRows]

X2 linsinopril (10mg) for years, take first thing in the a.m.

I also take CoQ10 (100mg) + Hawthorn berry daily with it.

wo at noontime and have used stim products, just no need for me to use the full dose since I'm quite sensitive to them. The stuff with Yohimbine bothers me most so I stay clear of supp's that contain it.

some stim products I've used:
No shotgun V2 (can't do a full dose get too wired)
Purple wrath
Purple in train
M5
coffee
Bulk BA
AMS hyperTrop-X
Superpump250

Purple Wraath / Intrain dont have stims
Unless you count Beta alanine as a stim?

[emekajokammor]

I'm not on any scripts but i am a constent hypertension 1. I read some studies that showed olive leaf extract helps to lower BP as good as some meds. So i've been using that, i also take stims but i am far from stim sensitive.

[criticalbench]

Emeka, have you considered celery seed extract? at 75mg twice a day, it has been shown to be very effective for BP control. Mimics a calcium channel blocker and mild diuretic. Hawthorn extract was help as well. Mike

[emekajokammor]

Emeka, have you considered celery seed extract? at 75mg twice a day, it has been shown to be very effective for BP control. Mimics a calcium channel blocker and mild diuretic. Hawthorn extract was help as well. Mike

wow, didn't know that. I'll definitely check it out. Trying to keep my BP in check naturally, my mom has been on BP meds for over an decade.

I was using the Hawthorn berry extract until i read about and researched the olive leaf extract. Will be giving the Celery seed extract a try tho, Thanks Mike!

[criticalbench]

wow, didn't know that. I'll definitely check it out. Trying to keep my BP in check naturally, my mom has been on BP meds for over an decade.

I was using the Hawthorn berry extract until i read about and researched the olive leaf extract. Will be giving the Celery seed extract a try tho, Thanks Mike!

Anytime, glad I could help .

Mike