EC (ephedrine) + Alpha-T2 stack

nattydisaster

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I have had a lot of users ask if EC (ephedrine + caffeine) with Alpha-T2 is a good stack.

Since ephedrine hits the B2 & B3 receptor and Alpha-T2 hits the A2 and B2 & B3 receptors, there is some good synergy.

Users would want to stick to their normal EC dosing regimine, and add 1 Alpha-T2 to each dose, no more than 3 per day.

If dosing EC 3x per day, take 1 Alpha-T2 with each dosing. If twice per day, take 2 Alpha-T2 with your first dose and 1 Alpha-T2 with your second.

Just a little F Y I !!
 
jherman08

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if only michigan residents could find some ephedrine love :crying:
 
DAdams91982

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I have tried this stack, and have used the following:

1 x 12.5mg Ephedrine tab
1 x 100mg Caffeine tab
1 aT2

I have used that twice per day and it lit me up like no other. I have also done the same with 2 aT2 caps with no problem. With the numerous receptors being targeted, i think you can dial back the standard 25mg dose of eph... but of course, your mileage may vary.
 
MAxximal

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I have had a lot of users ask if EC (ephedrine + caffeine) with Alpha-T2 is a good stack.

This is a GREAT stack. Since ephedrine hits the B3 receptor and Alpha-T2 hits the A2 and B2 receptors, there is no competition with ephedrine.

This also makes Alpha-T2 a great EC bridge supplement.

Users would want to stick to their normal EC dosing regimine, and add Alpha-T2 to each dose.

If dosing EC 3x per day, take 2 Alpha-T2 with each dosing. If twice per day, take 2 Alpha-T2 with your first dose and 1 Alpha-T2 with your second.

Just a little F Y I !!
I have tried this stack, and have used the following:

1 x 12.5mg Ephedrine tab
1 x 100mg Caffeine tab
1 aT2

I have used that twice per day and it lit me up like no other. I have also done the same with 2 aT2 caps with no problem. With the numerous receptors being targeted, i think you can dial back the standard 25mg dose of eph... but of course, your mileage may vary.

Jeeezzz!!!
 
thebigt

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2 AT-2/2 bronkaid/200mg caffeine. now that will get your asss up off the couch.:sgrin:
 

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2 AT-2/2 bronkaid/200mg caffeine. now that will get your asss up off the couch.:sgrin:
taking this as we speak with some LX to boot. Leaning out like crazy :woohoo:
 
thebigt

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taking this as we speak with some LX to boot. Leaning out like crazy :woohoo:
amen, brother.

i get severe sore joints from lx or i would be including it too.
 
crazyfool405

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im pretty sure that ephedrine works on b2 and 3 and minimally on b1, however exerting a slight agonist effect on alpha 1 with hardly any effect at all on alpha 2 which is the reason for inclusion of Alpha y? no?
 
nattydisaster

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That's a bargain!

I recently saw some ephedrine liquicaps here in FL...not sure what that would be better but they looked cool :D
 
nattydisaster

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im pretty sure that ephedrine works on b2 and 3 and minimally on b1, however exerting a slight agonist effect on alpha 1 with hardly any effect at all on alpha 2 which is the reason for inclusion of Alpha y? no?
Correct.

Ephedrine is majorily B2 and methyl-syn is majorily B3.

Rauwolscine HCl (alpha-yohimbine) acts on A2 greatly -- so this greatly boosts the fat burning with the stack.

Oh yea, and you boost the thyroid!
 
FlawedGrunt

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well that solves its... im gonna be running for the next 3-4 weeks

AlphaT2
Lean Xtreme
6-Bromo
AN Drive
EC

If i stopped posting just assume that i lost too much fat and my body died
 
thebigt

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well that solves its... im gonna be running for the next 3-4 weeks

AlphaT2
Lean Xtreme
6-Bromo
AN Drive
EC

If i stopped posting just assume that i lost too much fat and my body died
it seems like i have stacked damn near everything with at-2, and had success. very versatile supplement.
 

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Ive been having amazing success with the ecy stack. If i wanted to try alpha-t2 would i just add it in or replace the yohimbine hcl?
 

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call me eblind, crazy or whatever...but i couldnt find any straight ephedrine on NP. am i missing it or what? if its there post a link please
 
jherman08

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call me eblind, crazy or whatever...but i couldnt find any straight ephedrine on NP. am i missing it or what? if its there post a link please
lol when you do let me know :stooges:
 
nattydisaster

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You cannot buy ephedrine as a dietary supplement. People buy it OTC at pharmacies for their asthma
 
AK32408

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You cannot buy ephedrine as a dietary supplement. People buy it OTC at pharmacies for their asthma
They also make you sign for it, haha.

A lot of us must have asthma on here ! :dunno:


:lol:

E + OEP + AT2 + X-Lean sounds crazyyy
 
schwellington

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is this safe to run with ECA stack? I just started today....I know you said it is with the EC

But I didnt see anything about the asprin....you nattydisaster said I would be getting a sample of t2- if I do and I like it- its going in this stack
 
nattydisaster

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is this safe to run with ECA stack? I just started today....I know you said it is with the EC

But I didnt see anything about the asprin....you nattydisaster said I would be getting a sample of t2- if I do and I like it- its going in this stack
Yes it is still fine to run with ECA
 
smutty

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Does ECA by itself work for fat burning or does it need caffeine or something else stacked with it?
 
MAxximal

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This Article helps to understand Ephedrine and Caffeine Actions

Ephedrine and caffeine: Little known facts about this dynamic duo
by Bryan Hay****


[NOTE: whenever I talk about taking ephedrine, assume I am also talking about caffeine]

Ephedrine has truly moved into the mainstream over the last few years. With the onslaught of Metabo-whatever products in every mall and grocery store, nearly every housewife in America is on it. Today even the term "thermogenic" is a household word. Nevertheless, bodybuilders were the first to put ephedrine to widespread use and it remains today as one of our most important tools in contest prep.

Despite the widespread use of ephedrine, knowledge about how it works and how best to use it is rare. Even bodybuilders, who should know better, take it haphazardly without any rhyme or reason to their dosing schedule. Sure, most understand the synergistic 1:10 ratio of ephedrine to caffeine, but there is a lot more that can be done to further increase its effectiveness.

Ephedrine's mechanism of action

Let's start with ephedrine's basic mechanism of action. Ephedrine is a sympathomimetic, which means it acts to increase sympathetic activity. Why is this important? Because there is a drop in sympathetic activity when you cut calories. When you get a drop in sympathetic activity you get a decrease in metabolic rate and lower rates of lipolysis (fat mobilization). This can play a significant role in why you plateau on long-term diets. The use of ephedrine and caffeine can stave off this drop in metabolic rate and allow fat loss to continue unabated for several additional weeks.

People often want to compare ephedrine to Clenbuterol. This is fine as long as you realize that they act in different ways. Clenbuterol is a specific beta-2 adrenergic agonist. As such, Clenbuterol interacts directly with beta-2 receptors on muscle and fat tissue. Ephedrine, on the other hand, is not a direct beta-2 agonist. In fact, ephedrine is a poor ligand for the beta-2 receptor. Instead, ephedrine stimulates the release of noradrenaline from sympathetic nerve terminals. The noradrenaline then goes on to interact with muscle and fat cells as a nonspecific adrenergic agonist. This simply means that noradrenaline activates beta-2 receptors, but also other beta-receptors as well as alpha-receptors. So to compare ephedrine and Clenbuterol you must take into account their differences.

The differences between ephedrine and Clenbuterol are important. For example, Clenbuterol is a very potent beta-2 agonist. As a result, within 14 to 21 days, the beta-2 receptors on muscle and fat cells will be drawn into the cell membrane to reduce their availability to Clenbuterol. Then, if you continue to take it, they will be disassembled all together, leaving you insensitive to Clenbuterol. It then takes at least 2-3 weeks for receptors to replenish themselves on muscle and fat cells. Once again, ephedrine is different with respect to down regulation. Ephedrine, being a much weaker agonist, does not cause rapid desensitization and/or down-regulation of adrenergic receptors. This allows ephedrine to be used effectively for many months. Despite these differences, both drugs should be tapered over the course of several weeks before discontinuing them. If you don't, you will quickly replace the fat you just lost due to an increased appetite and a decreased ability of fat cells to mobilize stored fat.


Choosing the right diet to use with Ephedrine/Caffeine

Your diet will also make a difference in what effects ephedrine will produce. Insulin prevents lipolysis. Insulin has been shown to inhibit lipolysis in a phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase- (PI3K) and phosphodiesterase 3B (PDE3)-dependent manner and to stimulate fractional re-esterification of free fatty acids (FFAs), resulting in inhibition of FFA release (1,2). Even in the presence of ephedrine and/or noradrenaline, a high carbohydrate diet will reduce the fat mobilizing effects of ephedrine. This being the case, I generally recommend a low carb diet to get the most out of ephedrine and caffeine. Keep in mind, however, that over time, your body will not respond so well to ephedrine when on a low carb diet. This should not surprise you considering your metabolic rate (reflecting CNS activity) will drop like a led zeppelin on a low carb diet anyway. So, a periodic carb up is helpful in keeping ephedrine's thermogenic properties high. A carb up should last no longer than 2 days. I may be helpful to keep fat low during these two days, or if you must eat fat, make sure it is n-3 and/or n-6 fatty acids.

How to use ephedrine to keep that hard earned muscle

You may have heard the Clenbuterol prevents muscle loss during a diet. This is true. Beta-adrenergic stimulation can preserve muscle protein. If you ask your average bodybuilder they will usually tell you that indeed Clenbuterol saves muscle, but ephedrine won't. They are wrong, of course. In studies measuring body composition as well as weight loss, ephedrine has shown the ability to prevent lean tissue loss (3). In a small double blind study lasting eight weeks, two groups of obese women were given either 20 mg ephedrine with 200 mg caffeine (E+C) or placebo (P) three times daily. After eight weeks weight loss was not significantly different between the groups, but the E + C group lost 4.5 kg more body fat and 2.8 kg less fat free mass (FFM). That is a difference of more than six pounds in eight weeks. The expected decrease in 24-hour energy expenditure (EE) seen in the P group was 10% at day 1 and 13% at day 56, but was only 7% and 8% in the treated group. The higher EE in the E +C group was entirely covered by fat oxidation.

It's no secret that Clenbuterol has potent anabolic effects in animals when used in dosages around 4 mg per kg body weight. What does seem to be a secret is that this effect is dependent on Clenbuterol?s long and steady activation of the beta receptors (4). The half-life of Clenbuterol is between 34-35 hours. All of the other beta agonists that have been labeled ineffective at preserving or even building muscle have half-lives much shorter, around only 6 hours. It has been demonstrated however, that when you infuse beta agonists with short half-lives, you can elicit the same anabolic activity (4). The reason is because infusion circumvents the half-life issue all together, providing a steady stream of agonist for the beta-receptors.

So what does all this have to do with ephedrine? Well, ephedrine also has a very short half-life, only about 3-4 hours. Keep in mind that this does not mean that ephedrine levels are high for the full 3-4 hours. In reality, they will peak early and then begin to decline quite rapidly. So if you are taking ephedrine every 4 hours, levels are pretty low for most of that time. What's the solution? Simple. Take ephedrine at least every 2 hours. You will find in doing so that you don't get the hills and valleys in your mood either. NOTE: if you are taking 20 mg ephedrine with 200 mg caffeine every 4 hours, you should half the dose to take it every 2 hours. That way you are still taking the same total amount over the course of the day. You will be surprised at how such a small change can dramatically improve the experience and results of using ephedrine and caffeine.

Points to take home

Keep carbs low while using ephedrine. Insulin counter-acts the effects of ephedrine and will ultimately hinder fat loss if carbs remain too high. This does not mean you must go on a ketogenic diet. If total calories are low enough, carbs become less of an issue. But if you are trying to keep muscle by lowering calories only slightly, the carbs will sabotage ephedrine's action.

Ephedrine and Clenbuterol have two different, yet similar mechanisms of action. Nevertheless, don't use Clenbuterol and ephedrine at the same time, or even in an alternating fashion. Both drugs work through the beta-adrenergic receptor, however, Clenbuterol will shut down beta-receptors within a few weeks. Taking ephedrine at that time will do little for you. Better to use ephedrine from the start of your diet, only switching to Clenbuterol no further than 3 weeks out from the contest.
In order to get the most benefit from ephedrine on muscle loss, adjust your dosing schedule to every 2 hours. This will enhance the duration and consistency of beta-adrenergic activity. Be sure to adjust the amount you take each time in order to maintain the total amount taken over the course of a day. For example, instead of taking 20 mg ephedrine and 200 mg caffeine 3 times daily, take 10 mg ephedrine and 100 mg caffeine 6 times daily.

References:
1. Van Harmelen V, Reynisdottir S, Cianflone K, Degerman E, Hoffstedt J, Nilsell K, Sniderman A, Arner P. Mechanisms involved in the regulation of free fatty acid release from isolated human fat cells by acylation-stimulating protein and insulin.J Biol Chem 1999 Jun 25;274(26):18243-51
2. Paquot N, Schneiter P, Jequier E, Tappy L. Effects of glucocorticoids and sympathomimetic agents on basal and insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism.Clin Physiol 1995 May;15(3):231-40
3. Astrup A, Buemann B, Christensen NJ, Toubro S, Thorbek G, Victor OJ, Quaade F. The effect of ephedrine/caffeine mixture on energy expenditure and body composition in obese women. Metabolism Jul;41(7):686-688. 1992
4. Choo J, Horan M, Litlle R, and Rothwell N. Anabolic effects of Clenbuterol on skeletal muscle are mediated by beta2-adrenoreceptor activation. Am J Physiol 1992; 263:E50-E56


The link on the bottom will explain hows Alpha-T2 works so read both articles for recomendetations and precautions and like Natty`s says This is and EFFECTIVE FAT DESTROYER COMBO.


http://pesupplements.com/alphat.html
 

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So, what dose of AT2 would you suggest to take if I'm on 25mg E/200mg C, dosing 3 times a day?
 
DaveGabe24

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That AT2 + Primaforce Caffeine is probably what I'm going to pick up and throw in some Bronkaid. Do something like a 40 or 60 day cut.


Does anyone know if the primaforce "tablets" are easily split into two?
 
nattydisaster

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That AT2 + Primaforce Caffeine is probably what I'm going to pick up and throw in some Bronkaid. Do something like a 40 or 60 day cut.


Does anyone know if the primaforce "tablets" are easily split into two?
You can probably do them with your hand, if not a knife will work. I have them and use a pill cutter and its easy
 
DaveGabe24

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You can probably do them with your hand, if not a knife will work. I have them and use a pill cutter and its easy
Perfect thanks, was hoping they were tablets that I could use a pill cutter on.


So at the 12.5mg / 100mg / 6x daily dose. The 2 bottles of alpha t2 will last about 30 days.

I'll probably run straight EC for 30days, and then the AT2 for the second 30 days. Thoughts?
 
bdcc

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Natty/DAdams, what are your thoughts to using ephedrine while taking AT2 with Erase.

Pros and cons of Erase and ephedrine used simultaneously i.e. cytochrome p450?
 
nattydisaster

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Perfect thanks, was hoping they were tablets that I could use a pill cutter on.


So at the 12.5mg / 100mg / 6x daily dose. The 2 bottles of alpha t2 will last about 30 days.

I'll probably run straight EC for 30days, and then the AT2 for the second 30 days. Thoughts?
Sounds good

Natty/DAdams, what are your thoughts to using ephedrine while taking AT2 with Erase.

Pros and cons of Erase and ephedrine used simultaneously i.e. cytochrome p450?
Ephedrine is a short half life mixed beta agonist, so I dont see a pro or con on using it with Erase. Not sure how E acts w p450

As for taking a fat loss agents in general w Erase, its recommended since Erase can reduce fat storage, via reducing Est and Cort
 
bdcc

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Thank you. Would caffeine/Erase have any known interactions rather than ephedrine?
 
nattydisaster

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No known positive or negative interactions. I take caffeine and Erase every day as well
 
Rosie Chee

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Thank you. Would caffeine/Erase have any known interactions rather than ephedrine?
Nope - like Josh, I use this combination daily. As for E and Erase, I personally don't see an issue there either.

~Rosie~
 
bdcc

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Thank you very much. I didn't want to overlook any complementary actions/side effects when I run AT2 and Erase later in the year.

I ask you so many questions you are the equivalent of the 'internet speed dial' contact.
 
nattydisaster

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Thank you very much. I didn't want to overlook any complementary actions/side effects when I run AT2 and Erase later in the year.

I ask you so many questions you are the equivalent of the 'internet speed dial' contact.
hahaha no big deal!
 
Rosie Chee

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Thank you very much. I didn't want to overlook any complementary actions/side effects when I run AT2 and Erase later in the year.

I ask you so many questions you are the equivalent of the 'internet speed dial' contact.
No worries :)
 
DaveGabe24

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Now I'm actually thinking about EC + AT2 + Erase for my cut....ugh. Why are so many supplements so intriguing? It makes decision making damn near impossible...
 
Rosie Chee

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Now I'm actually thinking about EC + AT2 + Erase for my cut....ugh. Why are so many supplements so intriguing? It makes decision making damn near impossible...
We do it to make your head spin :tongue2:

Seriously though, EC with Alpha-T2 and Erase is a dream stack. I've done something similar - well, my modification of it, since I no longer use straight caffeine.

I do recommend though, that if you haven't used either Alpha-T2 or Erase before, that you try them standalone first so that you know how they affect you - or use say Alpha-T2 for 1-2 weeks on its own so you know about that, and then add in the Erase, going from there.

~Rosie~
 
DaveGabe24

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We do it to make your head spin :tongue2:

Seriously though, EC with Alpha-T2 and Erase is a dream stack. I've done something similar - well, my modification of it, since I no longer use straight caffeine.

I do recommend though, that if you haven't used either Alpha-T2 or Erase before, that you try them standalone first so that you know how they affect you - or use say Alpha-T2 for 1-2 weeks on its own so you know about that, and then add in the Erase, going from there.

~Rosie~
Yup, I'd probably do that exact protocol. AT2 for 2 weeks, then into Erase.

I still need to look into Erase's ingredients a bit more before I make the purchase. I'm always hesitant with anything that alters hormones since I'm only 22. Luckily, as a senior biology undergrad student I have access to almost every journal/database to do my research :D

The anecdotal feedback definitely could not be any better, which is always a plus.
 
Rosie Chee

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Yup, I'd probably do that exact protocol. AT2 for 2 weeks, then into Erase.

I still need to look into Erase's ingredients a bit more before I make the purchase. I'm always hesitant with anything that alters hormones since I'm only 22. Luckily, as a senior biology undergrad student I have access to almost every journal/database to do my research :D

The anecdotal feedback definitely could not be any better, which is always a plus.
That protocol sounds good.

Erase is 3,7-keto DHEA. A little more information on it (from the FREE TEST Technical Information, since it contains the same active):
Regulating Estrogen and Increasing Testosterone via Suicide Aromatase Inhibition: The Role of 3, 7-Keto DHEA:

3, 7-Keto DHEA is a naturally-occurring metabolite of dehydroepiandosterone (DHEA), and is a potent aromatase inhibitor with some very unique qualities. Aromatase is an enzyme that transforms testosterone into estrogen, and the more active aromatase is, the more estrogen will ultimately be present. Therefore, aromatase inhibitors significantly decrease the level of estrogen in the body. This is important as increased estrogen in men can signal the hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) to shut down the release of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). GnRH signals the production of luteinizing hormone (LH), which signals the production of testosterone. Therefore, increased estrogen levels can lower endogenous testosterone production (21,29,31).

3, 7-Keto DHEA has demonstrated strong ability to lower estrogen, thus mitigating this effect. It has a high binding affinity (Ki value = 0.22 mM) to the aromatase enzyme, and binds in an irreversible manner, making it a suicide inhibitor of aromatase. Ki Values measure how efficiently a compound binds to its associated receptor. The lower the Ki value; the higher the binding affinity. This inhibition allows for the production of less estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) and allows the user of the compound to maintain a higher level of testosterone; hence improving the Testosterone: Estrogen (T:E) ratio. The mechanism through which aromatase inhibitors raise testosterone is fairly simple; the HPTA senses low levels of estrogen, and because the body seeks to maintain homeostasis (it likes to maintain at least some estrogen, even in men), there is a concurrent increase in the amount of testosterone that is being produced, as a way to compensate for the low estrogen levels. The increased testosterone levels normally will result in increased estrogen since there is no estrogen being produced. Essentially, the brain is tricked into trying to produce more estrogen, so it releases more luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) and subsequently more LH, leading to even higher testosterone levels (20,21-23).

All aromatase inhibitors share this characteristic of positively altering the T:E ratio, and all will raise serum testosterone levels in men, which has been referenced in numerous studies. 3,7-Keto DHEA is comparable in potency to several other commonly available aromatase inhibitors. As explained above, a lower Ki value means higher potency, making it more potent than both Formestane and Exemestane, and very similar to androstentrione (ATD) (31,55). (See Figure 5)

Figure 5: POTENCY OF AROMATASE INHIBITORS, INCLUDING 3-DESOXY 7-KETO DHEA (KI VALUES)


3,7-Keto DHEA is unique from other commonly used aromatase inhibitors in sports supplements in that it is a natural metabolite of 7-Keto DHEA and it cannot directly bind to the androgen receptor. 3,7-Keto DHEA (like 7-Keto DHEA) also cannot convert to testosterone, estrogen, or progesterone via any type of enzymatic reaction, so by strict definition it cannot in any way be considered a prohormone. This clearly differentiates it from other recently banned products that allow for the direct conversion to a controlled substance in the body (in either in trace amounts or full-scale conversion). This can not occur with 3,7-Keto DHEA, as it is formed naturally in humans from 7-Keto DHEA and can be readily found in humans in the amount of 5-7 ug/day (23-24).
~Rosie~
 
bla55

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if only michigan residents could find some ephedrine love :crying:
Wait, since when we can't?

Not too long ago I was still buying at my local CVS, did this change recently?
 

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