Building a Thermogenic

[enash]

Not a mix just a combo of single-compoun pills. So far, I'm planning Yohimbe 1111 and caffeine anhydrous at 200 mg. What else should I use? I prefer not to use ephedra. Also, anything CHEAP is good.

Thx.

 

[CDB]

Not a mix just a combo of single-compoun pills. So far, I'm planning Yohimbe 1111 and caffeine anhydrous at 200 mg. What else should I use? I prefer not to use ephedra. Also, anything CHEAP is good.
Thx.

You should rethink that, ephedra as part of an ECA stack is very, very effective. If it's the variable dosage found in supplements that worries you you can always go with ephedrine which is still available in many different ways. BulkNutrition.com has some by Mega-Pro and SAN. Innexpensive and good dosages.

 

[enash]

Does anyone know were to get norephedrine? I heard it's a little milder with the sides.

 

[Kristopher]

what sides?

 

[enash]

what sides with ephedra? are you kidding?

 

[sawastea]

Does anyone know were to get norephedrine? I heard it's a little milder with the sides.

It has been banned/discontinued by the FDA a little over 2 years ago. I do not know where you can get nor-e, HOWEVER, I do see random members selling NYC every so often in the 'swap' forum

 

[nsruffryder34]

Norephedrine, Yohim. HCL, Synthetic Guggulsterones, Evodiamine, Olive LEaf Extract, Caffeine, Vipocetine...... In the correct doages... it creates an unbelievable fat burning supplement. This is what I use for all cutting cycles... just a pain in the ass getting all the ingrediants.

 

[Jcc]

Before my morning cardio, I like to load up on chocamine, tyrosine, alcar, green tea, and 10-15mg yohimbine. Turns up the heat a bit.

 

[sawastea]

Before my morning cardio, I like to load up on chocamine, tyrosine, alcar, green tea, and 10-15mg yohimbine. Turns up the heat a bit.

At 10-15mg a serving of Y-HCL, I'd be a walking horn dog looking for anything in a skirt

Then again, I may puke at that dose

 

[Jcc]

It was effectively kept in check by the sight of spandex on individuals bearing no right to wear it.

At any other given time, though, 20mg makes for some good wholesome fun.

 

[enash]

Cool. Guess I'll just hunt around for the nor-e and check the swap meet. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Jay Mc]

umm...doesn't nor-e cause brain bleeds? I thought thats why it was banned?

 

[enash]

And ephedra is linked to heart attack and stroke. That's why it was banned. If you believe that I've got a nice bridge to sell ya'.

 

[Kristopher]

I take 12.5mg of Y-HCL twice a day with C when im not on EC, dosent really seem to affect me, i think im going to up the dose

 

[paul3371]

i havent heard of norephedrine before. I have heard of norepinepherine though. Is that what you mean? Thats some strong ****.. another name for norepinephine is Levophed... or as some call it levophed-leave 'em dead

 

[enash]

norephedrine is a different compound.

 

[sawastea]

Norephedrine is similar to ephedrine (a cousin, if you will), with milder CNS side-effects. Norephedrine is an isomer of ephedrine. Great for weight loss as well

 

[quasar]

umm...doesn't nor-e cause brain bleeds? I thought thats why it was banned?

it was banned because it's easy to make meth from, anyone who says differently is trying to hide that fact (or doesnt know enough chem). norephedrine is a diff stereoisomer of phenylpropanolamine (ppa) that was found in otc allergy pills and was also used in the study that yale univ did showing heart palpitations in a small percentage of healthy people. there was a good write-up about the differences btw ppa and norephedrine by derek from syntrax posted around the time the ban took effect.

 

[Jay Mc]

I was under the impression that PPA and its negative effects had been linked to at least two ((1R,2S) and (1S,2R)-norephedrine) of the isomers. I was also under the impression the the 1S,2R isomer was the most potent and commonly used for weightloss. Its definately easy to cook meth from but its not much harder to cook it from psuedofed either. I feel like there was fairly compelling evidence to show that the 1S,2R and 1R,2S isomers definately caused widespread vasoconstriction and increased stroke volume which would clearly lead to an increase in blood pressure and increased risk for CVA. In fact, much more compelling than the ephedrine evidence where most increases in BP were transitory and could likely be explained by the combination w/caffeine and a well documented phenom caused by caffeine known as the pressor effect which subsides as the body becomes more tolerant of caffeine. I'm no expert by any means but I was much more convinced by the anti norephedrine arguments than by those contra ephedrine. At the end of the day its your body and not mine. I know I take some stupid stuff that is likely to f me up so I guess I shouldn't tell other people not to do the same

 

[maggmaster]

Meth is actually simpler to make from ephedrine in my opinion even if it is mixed with another chemical like guaffenusin it is still a three or four step process.

 

[quasar]

jay, do you have a link to that study? i havent been able to find it.

btw, it's the 1r,2s isomer that was used in adipokinetix, lipok, and hollywood cuts

 

[Jay Mc]

Sorry, I don't have the links because I use the library at my medschool so I just have a billion pieces of paper floating around from articles I copied. On top of that I just got home from 4 months in costa rica several days ago so I can't find half the stuff I used to have. However, you might be able to find these on pub med. I coppied them out of a data file I have.

And just for giggles, what was interesting to me was that PPA didn't seem to increase heart rate, just cause vasoconstriction and increase stroke volume. Well, you throw another stim in there like caffeine that increases heart rate and you just fucked yourself harder....Stroke Volume X Rate = Cardiac Output. More output through less space = more pressure. More pressure = higher chance for your brain to blow up! Anyway, everyone should make their own decisions!

This is an interesting study that looked at a racemic mixture and thereby both isomers.
Thomas SH, Clark KL, Allen R, Smith SE. A comparison of the cardiovascular effects of phenylpropanolamine and phenylephrine containing proprietary cold remedies. Br J Clin Pharmacol 1991 Dec;32(6):705-11

This is the clasic Yale study that dropped the hammer and said PPA in diet supps was an independent risk factor for hemorrhagic stroke
Kernan WN, Viscoli CM, Brass LM, Broderick JP, Brott T, Feldmann E, Morgenstern LB, Wilterdink JL, Horwitz RI. Phenylpropanolamine and the risk of hemorrhagic stroke. N Engl J Med 2000 Dec 21;343(25):1826-32

Title tells the story here
Jick H, Aselton P, Hunter JR. Phenylpropanolamine and cerebral haemorrhage Lancet 1984 May 5;1(8384):1017

This study is a review of some ADR reports to the FDA
Lake CR, Gallant S, Masson E, Miller P. Adverse drug effects attributed to phenylpropanolamine: a review of 142 case reports. Am J Med 1990 Aug;89(2):195-208

This is the one that I was talking about that seperated noted BP increase induced by PPA from the effects of caffeine
Lake CR, Zaloga G, Bray J, Rosenberg D, Chernow B. Transient hypertension after two phenylpropanolamine diet aids and the effects of caffeine: a placebo-controlled follow-up study. Am J Med 1989 Apr;86(4):427-32 s

THis is one of the earliest studies noting increases in BP as a result of PPA
Horowitz JD, Lang WJ, Howes LG, Fennessy MR, Christophidis N, Rand MJ, Louis WJ. Hypertensive responses induced by phenylpropanolamine in anorectic and decongestant preparations. Lancet 1980 Jan 12;1(8159):60-1