UK medical cycle support

[matthias7]

The following is useful for UK body builders, if you don't maximize your use of the NHS already ...

Originally Posted by narraboth

How to get liver test (or even testo test) in the UK? NHS will pay for this? I checked some blood test centres on line and the price is just unacceptable.

Liver Yes the NHS will pay for this. Just tell them what you are doing and although they might try and discourage you just tell them you will be doing it in any case. They will have to perform blood work for cholesterol regardless. They could refuse an "on-cycle" blood test, its the GPs discretion, but pre- and post- they pretty much have to do.

Kidney Oh and request a kidney function check ... very important. Just say you're on excess protein. I get checked every 6 months. Make sure you are not on creatine.

Test Test tests I have done in the US. For future I will have it done via the NHS, but basically they'll just check post-cycle the test "looks okay" rather than do detailed monitoring. They could refuse this and you might have to say you have low test before they'd authoize it.

Blood pressue I use my own monitor but the GP/nurse will perform this for you both on and off cycle as a course of routine.

Cost FREE, i.e. £0 and $0

So there is every reason to get solid medical support and it'll pick up adverse reactions early, so kidney stones, liver, heart problems can be avoided. Cool eh?

 

[narraboth]

two years ago i had a blood test in taiwan, which showed that my GOT GPT was slightly higher than normal. then I came to the UK, I asked university health centre to do blood test again. The doctor said I should give her blood test report. I didn't because it's not with me.

I think I have good reason to 'overuse' NHS, not because I pay bloody much tuition fees, but because NHS gave bad service to me. I fell on ice and hurted my foot on 22nd Dec last yr, it was so painful that on christmas eve I went to emergency dep of a big hospital. They did x-ray and I was diagnosed as sprained. I was told to walk after 3 days. So I did.
Actually I went to London Heathrow with 30kgs luggage, took airline back to taiwan for holiday on new year's eve. At that time my foot was still swollen and painful. Once I arrived I went to clinic in Taiwan immediately, and doctor x-rayed and told me 'your bone is broken. the doctor there didn't tell you?'

 

[matthias7]

Firstly very sorry to hear this.

Simple ... you make a formal complaint, ask for an apology and consider negligence (you would have a strong case). As a student your legal fees are covered. If its happened recently you can still pursue this, the starting point is a written complaint and then the system kicks in.

I agree its an error prone system but you need to make them accountable to get the sytem to work for you and complain should that not happen. Sure its far from a perfect system but it is free.

 

[narraboth]

my legal fees are covered? I am oversea student.

The reason I didn't want to complain is, I can't get benefit from it (unless I put this in court, but I don't think anyone will pay solictors fees for me? )
(and there is a case that a heart disease person was mis-disgnosis and almost lost his life. He lost the case in court)

If my complaint is just to 'improve NHS system' (which is the response I got from NHS office here), I can't be bothered to do so. I don't care NHS system since I am not going to live here rest of my life. But if there is any compensation involve... surely I will do

 

[synergy7]

i found this useful. repped. I work for the nhs too

 

[matthias7]

^^^ glad that it helped. Got to make the most of the support available.

my legal fees are covered? I am oversea student.

Its worth checking, you might be okay.

The first step in the NHS is to complain, you can't progress until that is done. It looks pretty open and shut, but I could be wrong.

 

[matthias7]

Gonna bump this. Knew a guy (UK) who lost his kidneys... okay he must have had a problem to start with and was probably doing a heap of stuff wrong, but for the sake of a free blood test just ain't worth it. He got it sorted by a transplant BTW - from a very generous friend.

 

[celc5]

For those of us who are insured in the US, the process is very similar. However, you cannot justify specific parameters simply by demanding them here. We must have specific SYMPTOMS which lead to the specific testing.

For example, liver/lipids are standard with yearly physicals. But insurance won't cover for test unless there's symptoms such as complaints of low libido. Won't check cortisol or thyroid unless there's complaints of lethargy.

So by doing your homework and knowing the symptoms, we should be able to get the bloodwork here in the US just as easily. Personally, i usually get my panel drawn once per year, usually a few months after a completed pct just to be sure I'm back on course.

When my pcp (primary care physician) say's, wow you're test is fine, I don't know why you'd have low libido? I respond "to be honest it's better now, I was having a lot of stress at the time now that I think about it."

 

[narraboth]

I am thinking not telling them I am gonna to use PHs, maybe I will say...
'I drank too much last weekend, next two days I got dark urine, my skin was itchy, and now i still feel I can't have any oily food... '

I think only low libido is not enough to get testo test in my Uni healthcare... I might need to think some better reason... like 'my nipple start to sore'?

oh my, i am planning to abuse NHS...

For those of us who are insured in the US, the process is very similar. However, you cannot justify specific parameters simply by demanding them here. We must have specific SYMPTOMS which lead to the specific testing.

For example, liver/lipids are standard with yearly physicals. But insurance won't cover for test unless there's symptoms such as complaints of low libido. Won't check cortisol or thyroid unless there's complaints of lethargy.

So by doing your homework and knowing the symptoms, we should be able to get the bloodwork here in the US just as easily. Personally, i usually get my panel drawn once per year, usually a few months after a completed pct just to be sure I'm back on course.

When my pcp (primary care physician) say's, wow you're test is fine, I don't know why you'd have low libido? I respond "to be honest it's better now, I was having a lot of stress at the time now that I think about it."

 

[Random181]

I think I have good reason to 'overuse' NHS, not because I pay bloody much tuition fees, but because NHS gave bad service to me. I fell on ice and hurted my foot on 22nd Dec last yr, it was so painful that on christmas eve I went to emergency dep of a big hospital. They did x-ray and I was diagnosed as sprained. I was told to walk after 3 days. So I did.
Actually I went to London Heathrow with 30kgs luggage, took airline back to taiwan for holiday on new year's eve. At that time my foot was still swollen and painful. Once I arrived I went to clinic in Taiwan immediately, and doctor x-rayed and told me 'your bone is broken. the doctor there didn't tell you?'

Paying 'to much' tuition fees is not a reason to abuse our free healthcare system....

 

[matthias7]

Its not abuse - its health.

My taxes pay for all sorts of unhealthy life-style choices of others such as smoking, binge drinking, poor diets and so the list goes on. Thats okay by me and I have a life-style choice too. If it doesn't obviously impact on my future health I don't a problem in that - but I need to know if thats the case or not. Prevention is cheaper than cure.

Overseas tuition fees are crazy BTW.

 

[Random181]

I agree with you entirely on the points you made the key bit was your taxes, tuition fees for foreign students are indeed stupidly high, but that does not give them a right to abuse a system they have paid minimally towards. I agree with you entirely on the points you made about lifestyle choices though.

 

[matthias7]

I am thinking not telling them I am gonna to use PHs, maybe I will say...

No I would say exactly what you are doing because then they have to help you. If you said "I drunk too much" they would say "how much?".

If you say PH and they refuse to help its a straight case of clinical negligence. E.g. if you said you were using Sdrol and they refused blood work, then you had major problems which traced back to your liver they would then be responsible. In the UK there is accountability.

If you don't tell them, they are not responsible. They cannot stop you using a PH but can advize against it. After all PHs are perfectly legal.

You could just say you wanted a cholesterol check, but if that was normal there would be no reason to have another one in 4 months time.

 

[celc5]

I am thinking not telling them I am gonna to use PHs, maybe I will say...
'I drank too much last weekend, next two days I got dark urine, my skin was itchy, and now i still feel I can't have any oily food... '

I think only low libido is not enough to get testo test in my Uni healthcare... I might need to think some better reason... like 'my nipple start to sore'?

oh my, i am planning to abuse NHS...

In my opinion, you'd have to be an alcoholic to get liver checked due to drinking. IMO that's not a good idea to lie about. Liver enzymes and lipids should be checked as part of a standard blood panel. No c/o necessary.

Sore nips might get prolactin or estrogen checked, but it won't fit any medical picture as an isolated complaint.

I personally do tell my pcp when I run a cycle. However, if your c/o are typical, such as things that are associated with stress, most should be able to get away without revealing our experimentation, especially if it's a few weeks or months AFTER pct.

 

[narraboth]

I was kind of joking about too much tuition fees linking to NHS, surely there is no logical link. There is also no logical link that NHS did bad service to me can lead to my 'abusing' it.
And also I am not really going to say i am alcoholic or got sore nipple, that's also kind of a joke, that's why i put ' ' in.

basically no one should 'abuse' any system. but that is also nothing to do if they have paid minimum or maxium. The idea of NHS in England is more like social security, compare to US health insurance system (at least for now).
Who's paying how much is not the concern in social security; if it was, then people who live in council house should be ticked out because most of them pay 'minimum' tax, and English students should use University Facility less since taxpayer's money for Uni is cutting off and every Uni is looking for some easy money from Chinese, Indian or Middle eastern students. There are several beautiful new buildings built up in Uni of Nottingham even in such a difficult time; we call them 'Chinese money buildings'.

again, no one should 'abuse' anything; but what I wanted to point out is (maybe in illogical way), using foreign students' money for UK people's benefit 'as one can', is not morally higher than using UK taxpayer's money for foriegn people's benefit 'as one can'.

Go further, the question 'if you are not fair to me, should i also be not fair to you?' is a big big topic; we can have three thesis, one in psychology, one in ethics, one in philosophy. I think we can just stop here

I agree with you entirely on the points you made the key bit was your taxes, tuition fees for foreign students are indeed stupidly high, but that does not give them a right to abuse a system they have paid minimally towards. I agree with you entirely on the points you made about lifestyle choices though.

 

[narraboth]

I find I love this discussion, ha
much more interesting than my protein in dengue virus...

I also find that it's very difficult to judge how to use NHS is MORAL.
As you said, people do drink, keep drinking, will drink in the future, and they have blood test. People do unprotected sex, keep doing unprotected sex, will keep bareback, and they have blood test. The point is if you really need it. Again, NHS is different from health insurance system, no matter how you expose yourself under risk, no matter how much you pay, everyone is recieving a 'flat' service, good or crap. As long as you really need it, it's moral to get the service.

More important thing is, as you pointed out too, we shouldn't care about moral too much. Public health policy and epidemiology care about how to decrease the cost and lives lost to minimum, not ethics. That's why the saying such as 'we shouldn't put that much money for HIV prevention because those people asked for it' is stupid. This should also be the logic when government decides to ban a drug. It should strictly base on the risk and the possible cost to public, rather than 'I think people shouldn't use this'.

Its not abuse - its health.

My taxes pay for all sorts of unhealthy life-style choices of others such as smoking, binge drinking, poor diets and so the list goes on. Thats okay by me and I have a life-style choice too. If it doesn't obviously impact on my future health I don't a problem in that - but I need to know if thats the case or not. Prevention is cheaper than cure.

Overseas tuition fees are crazy BTW.

 

[matthias7]

Agreed. Good post.