Overtrained? - Glutamine

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    Arrow Overtrained? - Glutamine


    Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2009 Oct 16. [Epub ahead of print]

    Effect of physical activity on glutamine metabolism.

    PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Glutamine is largely synthesized in skeletal muscles and provides fuel to rapidly dividing cells of the immune system and precursors to gluconeogenesis in the liver. Physical exercise is known to affect glutamine synthesis and to modulate glutamine uptake. Overtraining is frequently associated with reduced availability of glutamine and decreased immunocompetence. Inactivity affects glutamine metabolism, but this subject was poorly investigated.

    RECENT FINDINGS: Strenuous physical exercise as well as exhaustive training programs lead to glutamine depletion due to lowered synthesis and enhanced uptake by liver and immune cells. Evidence suggests that postexercise glutamine depletion is associated with immunodepression. Counterwise, moderate training leads to improved glutamine availability due to a positive balance between muscle synthesis and peripheral clearance. Physical inactivity, as investigated by experimental bed rest in healthy volunteers, reduced glutamine synthesis and availability.

    SUMMARY: After exercise, a reduced glutamine availability may be considered as a marker of overtraining. An increased glutamine availability may contribute to decreased inflammation and health benefits associated with optimal training. Thus, glutamine supplementation may enhance immunocompetence after strenuous exercise. The potential of glutamine supplementation during physical inactivity needs to be explored.

    I'll read the full thing soon...
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  2. EctoMeso
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    ive personally always taken a big amount of glutamine for both my immune system and to help aid recovery... found it good for kicking oncoming colds n flus even when ur not training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoMeso View Post
    ive personally always taken a big amount of glutamine for both my immune system and to help aid recovery... found it good for kicking oncoming colds n flus even when ur not training.
    I take glutamine as well, pre and post work out. Also as an immunobooster.

    What's a "big amount" ?
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  4. EctoMeso
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    i take around 15g. split into 5g serves 3 x's a day...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoMeso View Post
    i take around 15mg. split into 5mg serves 3 x's a day...
    15mg is not much. i think you ment 15g .

    i have 5g befor bed.
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    Ive been a big believer from glutamine from the start from the research I saw.

    I use it specially when I feel I may be a bit over trained, need stomach comfort, or need an immune system boost

    Do I think it is useful year round and would help gains ? Certainly
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    Quote Originally Posted by froggy543 View Post
    15mg is not much. i think you ment 15g .

    i have 5g befor bed.
    oo sorry man, YUP u got it grams.. lol

    to many posts on dbols and mdrols and **** these days lol, got me talkin in mg's non stop haha
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    its also very cheap. its in both xtend and BC+EAA, which i use daily
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    Something like this seems interesting... http://www.bodyripped.com.au/shop/pr...9cb87eacc67410

    Ive just got the plain jane powder nothing flash.... off topic but talking about cheap good powders is magnesium powder its around 4$ for a plastic tub full
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    Yeah BC+EAA is some good stuff very tasty
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoMeso View Post
    Something like this seems interesting... http://www.bodyripped.com.au/shop/pr...9cb87eacc67410

    Ive just got the plain jane powder nothing flash.... off topic but talking about cheap good powders is magnesium powder its around 4$ for a plastic tub full
    That' stuff is 99 bucks. Ridiculous.
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    Glutamine has been one of my staples for a long time. Awesome benifits even outside of the bodybuilding world.
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    Glutamine makes a noticeable difference in my recovery from work and the gym.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    That' stuff is 99 bucks. Ridiculous.
    HAHA YUP!!!!
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    I get my glutamine powderfrom Nutraplanet.

    Glutamine peptides may be better for absorption and I hear they taste horrible. I got gluta mine peptides in my post workout shake and it taste fine
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    i have never been a big fan of glutamine but recently i have been using 11g of a peptopro product and i have never had better recoveryi am very impressed
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    Oral glutamine does not absorb so this study is not useful for us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Oral glutamine does not absorb so this study is not useful for us.
    do you have an article by Layne Norton you read on this? I know you like his work and he used to stand against glutamine since, and most likely still does

    I could have been entirely wrong all these years and wasted a lot of money. Further, lets get down to facts and solve this if we can. this issue has been debated so many times Ive seen people get sick of debating it is so debatable. I am currently for glutamine as the research I have seen shows it is useful for the immune system(yes can be from intense training),or a cold, gastrointestinal, and growth hormone. take two grams on an empty stomach and it riases growth hormone levels.

    can you explain why glutamine raises growth hormone levels like gaba does if it does not absorb as these two are work some what similar, although not the entirely the same, and act on gaba neurotransmitters?

    I am not even searching for studies on this thread nor getting into a debate do not have time for that kind of a thing.

    regardless everyone has their own opinions from the research they have done and a person will stick to theirs unless they themselves change their opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Oral glutamine does not absorb so this study is not useful for us.
    I don't believe that for a second. My 15 years of use and benefits, contradict that theory as do MANY scientific studies.
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    I think that if one part of your body is absorbing the glutamine, then that body part wont be leaching glutamine from the rest of your body, therefore making the supplement useful. I think the supplement is mainly useful to people who burn themselves out though.
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    Been using this stuff from Day 1 and I love it. Won't stop, actually picking up a couple hundred more Grams this week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    I think that if one part of your body is absorbing the glutamine, then that body part wont be leaching glutamine from the rest of your body, therefore making the supplement useful. I think the supplement is mainly useful to people who burn themselves out though.
    Yea I have a very physical job and workout very hard so I notice any little bit of improvement from anything I take, definitely beneficial in that arena.
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    Scientifically speaking glutamine is important but oral glutamine does not absorbe there for the study can say all they want endless you IV it is pointless and yes Layne agresss and I quote from a email he personally sent me on glutamine " and nitrogen balance doesn't mean crap. It only lets' you know what a minimal amount of protein is to prevent a deficiency; it says nothing about what is optimal for stimulation of protein synthesis & muscle mass" For those of you who don't know Layne Norton google him and look at dogma on glutamine we posted a while ago. We want leucine not glutamine.

    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    do you have an article by Layne Norton you read on this? I know you like his work and he used to stand against glutamine since, and most likely still does

    I could have been entirely wrong all these years and wasted a lot of money. Further, lets get down to facts and solve this if we can. this issue has been debated so many times Ive seen people get sick of debating it is so debatable. I am currently for glutamine as the research I have seen shows it is useful for the immune system(yes can be from intense training),or a cold, gastrointestinal, and growth hormone. take two grams on an empty stomach and it riases growth hormone levels.

    can you explain why glutamine raises growth hormone levels like gaba does if it does not absorb as these two are work some what similar, although not the entirely the same, and act on gaba neurotransmitters?

    I am not even searching for studies on this thread nor getting into a debate do not have time for that kind of a thing.

    regardless everyone has their own opinions from the research they have done and a person will stick to theirs unless they themselves change their opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Scientifically speaking glutamine is important but oral glutamine does not absorbe there for the study can say all they want endless you IV it is pointless and yes Layne agresss and I quote from a email he personally sent me on glutamine " and nitrogen balance doesn't mean crap. It only lets' you know what a minimal amount of protein is to prevent a deficiency; it says nothing about what is optimal for stimulation of protein synthesis & muscle mass" For those of you who don't know Layne Norton google him and look at dogma on glutamine we posted a while ago. We want leucine not glutamine.
    There are studies that say it is very beneficial if you are getting into a very catabolic state, such as ..say working a VERY physical job and then training harder than you can imagine. Its glycogen replenishing properties are interesting as well. Leucine is amazing as well, which is why I use BCAA's in conjunction.
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    Studies done on glutamine were burn victims and remember if your eating food your getting ample amounts of glutamine. Again do a search on here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Studies done on glutamine were burn victims and remember if your eating food your getting ample amounts of glutamine. Again do a search on here.
    Um no it was not burn victims that I am referring to.
    1. An example of the importance of glutamine in curbing infection and illness is clearly evident in a study done at Oxford University by Castell, Poortmans, and Newsholme (1996). The study compared the health status of more than 150 marathon runners up to one week following a strenuous run. Half of the test subjects were given 5 grams of glutamine after the strenuous bout of exercise, while the other half took a placebo. The end result was that the subjects that were given the glutamine were twice as likely to stay healthy for the 7 days following a strenuous marathon than the placebo group.

    2. T-nation ;A recent study from the journal "Metabolism" shows that glutamine injections following glucocorticoid (ie catabolic steroid -such as cortisol) treatment can increase protein synthesis in the gastrointestinal system of dogs.(16) Unfortunately, nonoxidative leucine disposal, a measure of whole-body protein synthesis, remained unchanged in the glutamine treated group.

    There are a dozen ways you could interpret these findings, but at least we can say that glutamine supplementation may improve protein synthesis in some tissues following gluccocorticoid treatment. In fact, glucocorticoid treatment is one area where glutamine supplementation may really help!

    Another study with rats supports this contention, again using corticosteroid administration.(14) Although glutamine infusion had no effect on muscle protein synthesis in the rats not receiving cortisol, there was a beneficial effect in the glucocorticoid treated rats. In fact, glutamine infusion actually attenuated more than 70% of the muscle wasting caused by the cortisol injections!

    Along these lines, certain catabolic conditions (such as sepsis) may be another useful situation in which glutamine could help out. One literature review clearly concluded that "The increased intake of glutamine has resulted in lower septic morbidity in certain critically ill patient populations."(3) This means that people with certain catabolic medical conditions may live longer when taking glutamine. Keeping this in mind, we also know that AIDS can be associated with muscle wasting. Recent evidence has arisen to demonstrate that glutamine supplementation may attenuate AIDS-induced muscle wasting.(25)

    Overall, these studies show that glutamine could be very helpful for muscle mass during corticosteroid treatment and certain wasting conditions. For those of you who think that your everyday training may be intense enough to simulate a catabolic condition, keep in mind that these people are dying because of their catabolism, so you're really no where near that level.

    Here the Author makes an opinion about how hard someone can/does work coupled with exercise in their daily lives. I would say in my case he is most definitely wrong.

    3. Increased plasma bicarbonate and growth hormone after an oral glutamine load

    TC Welbourne
    Department of Physiology, Louisiana State University College of Medicine, Shreveport 71130, USA.

    An oral glutamine load was administered to nine healthy subjects to determine the effect on plasma glutamine, bicarbonate, and circulating growth hormone concentrations. Two grams glutamine were dissolved in a cola drink and ingested over a 20-min period 45 min after a light breakfast. Forearm venous blood samples were obtained at zero time and at 30-min intervals for 90 min and compared with time controls obtained 1 wk earlier. Eight of nine subjects responded to the oral glutamine load with an increase in plasma glutamine at 30 and 60 min before returning to the control value at 90 min. Ninety minutes after the glutamine administration load both plasma bicarbonate concentration and circulating plasma growth hormone concentration were elevated. These findings demonstrate that a surprisingly small oral glutamine load is capable of elevating alkaline reserves as well as plasma growth hormone.

    4. Oral glutamine slows down whole body protein breakdown in Duchenne muscular dystrophy.
    Hankard RG, Hammond D, Haymond MW, Darmaun D.

    Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32247, USA.
    We determined whether glutamine has a protein anabolic effect in six 8-13-y-old boys with Duchenne muscular dystrophy. Children received a 5-h i.v. infusion of L-[1-13C]leucine and L-[2-15N]glutamine in the postabsorptive state on two consecutive days while drinking: 1) flavored water on one day, and 2) the same drink mixed with L-glutamine (800 micromol x kg[-1] x h[-1]), the other day. Oral glutamine administration was associated with an 8% decrease in leucine release from protein breakdown, from 116 +/- 5 to 107 +/- 6 micromol x kg(-1) h(-1) (p < 0.01), and a 35% decrease in leucine oxidation rate from 23 +/- 2 to 15 +/- 2 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1) (p < 0.01), resulting in no change in the nonoxidative leucine disposal, an index of protein synthesis. Whole body glutamine exchange in plasma doubled from 321 +/- 22 to 623 +/- 24 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1), p < 0.01, but glutamine from protein degradation and glutamine de novo synthesis both decreased (91 +/- 4 versus 84 +/- 5 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1), p < 0.01, and 230 +/- 21 versus 163 +/- 25 micromol x kg(-1) x (h-1), p = 0.02, respectively). These data suggest that acute oral glutamine administration might have a protein-sparing effect in children with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, decreasing estimates of whole body protein degradation and glutamine de novo synthesis, therefore sparing nitrogen precursors.

    From these and many other studies it seems glutamine helps the most when the body is under extreme stress from disease,over exertion and injury. It seems to keep more leucine available in the muscles as well as preventing sickness from occurring after extreme bodily distress. It is not for the desk warrior, who works out 2-3 times a week. It is for people who lead intense lives.
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    IMO it is unnecessary to buy glutamine. Protein and creatine are a sure thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoloScooter View Post
    IMO it is unnecessary to buy glutamine. Protein and creatine are a sure thing.
    Well with all your evidence and experience, I am convinced.
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    I see where the Last Ronin is coming from. Glutamine seemed to really help me when I was just about getting ready to die from a stressful life, but it didn't seem to enhance me in the long run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    I see where the Last Ronin is coming from. Glutamine seemed to really help me when I was just about getting ready to die from a stressful life, but it didn't seem to enhance me in the long run.
    Yea exactly,its not something thats going to give you amazing strength gains in the gym. What it will do is allow you to push yourself in all facets of your life without burning out. Helpers call me a slave driver, people I have trained call me "the gym nazi", and they have all cried and puked because I am teaching them how to push themselves beyond the ordinary and unless your life is extraordinary you won't recognize the benefits of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastRonin View Post
    Half of the test subjects were given 5 grams of glutamine after the strenuous bout of exercise, while the other half took a placebo. [COLOR*********]was it oral or injectable?[/COLOR]The end result was that the subjects that were given the glutamine were twice as likely to stay healthy for the 7 days following a strenuous marathon than the placebo group.

    2. T-nation ;A recent study from the journal "Metabolism" shows that glutamine injections

    Another study with rats supports this contention, again using corticosteroid administration.(14) Although glutamine infusion had no effect on muscle protein synthesis in the rats not receiving cortisol, there was a beneficial effect in the glucocorticoid treated rats. In fact, glutamine infusion actually attenuated more than 70% of the muscle wasting caused by the cortisol injections!


    An oral glutamine load was administered to nine healthy subjects to determine the effect on plasma glutamine, bicarbonate, and circulating growth hormone concentrations. Two grams glutamine were dissolved in a cola drink and ingested over a 20-min period 45 min after a light breakfast. Forearm venous blood samples were obtained at zero time and at 30-min intervals for 90 min and compared with time controls obtained 1 wk earlier. Eight of nine subjects responded to the oral glutamine load with an increase in plasma glutamine at 30 and 60 min before returning to the control value at 90 min. Ninety minutes after the glutamine administration load both plasma bicarbonate concentration and circulating plasma growth hormone concentration were elevated. These findings demonstrate that a surprisingly small oral glutamine load is capable of elevating alkaline reserves as well as plasma growth hormone.

    4. Oral glutamine slows down whole body protein breakdown in Duchenne muscular dystrophy.

    At the GH increase. Looks interesting.....I'd be curious to see by how much the load elevated growth hormone levels and whether its significant or not. I also find it surprising that plasma glutamine levels had returned to baseline after only 90 minutes.
    I will just go with peptides 3x a day for GH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    At the GH increase. Looks interesting.....I'd be curious to see by how much the load elevated growth hormone levels and whether its significant or not. I also find it surprising that plasma glutamine levels had returned to baseline after only 90 minutes.
    I will just go with peptides 3x a day for GH.
    The marathon runners took the glutamine orally. This is the part I wanted you to read of that article. I just posted the whole thing.
    "The increased intake of glutamine has resulted in lower septic morbidity in certain critically ill patient populations."(3) This means that people with certain catabolic medical conditions may live longer when taking glutamine. Keeping this in mind, we also know that AIDS can be associated with muscle wasting. Recent evidence has arisen to demonstrate that glutamine supplementation may attenuate AIDS-induced muscle wasting.(25)" That portion was oral dosing.
    Who knows if it is significant enough for you personally to use it..but I am happy with it.
  

  
 

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