ZMA does not raise testosterone
- 03-15-2010, 04:10 PM
ZMA does not raise testosterone
It looks likeis only good if you are already zinc deficient.
Serum testosterone and urinary excretion of steroid hormone metabolites after administration of a high-dose zinc supplement.
Koehler K, Parr MK, Geyer H, Mester J, Schänzer W.
Institute of Biochemistry, German Research Centre of Elite Sport, German Sport University Cologne, Cologne, Germany. [email protected]
OBJECTIVES: To investigate whether the administration of the zinc-containing nutritional supplement ZMA causes an increase of serum testosterone levels, which is an often claimed effect in advertising for such products; to monitor the urinary excretion of testosterone and selected steroid hormone metabolites to detect potential changes in the excretion patterns of ZMA users. SUBJECTS: Fourteen healthy, regularly exercising men aged 22-33 years with a baseline zinc intake between 11.9 and 23.2 mg day(-1) prior to the study. RESULTS: Supplementation of ZMA significantly increased serum zinc (P=0.031) and urinary zinc excretion (P=0.035). Urinary pH (P=0.011) and urine flow (P=0.045) were also elevated in the subjects using ZMA. No significant changes in serum total and serum free testosterone were observed in response to ZMA use. Also, the urinary excretion pattern of testosterone metabolites was not significantly altered in ZMA users. CONCLUSIONS: The present data suggest that the use of ZMA has no significant effects regarding serum testosterone levels and the metabolism of testosterone in subjects who consume a zinc-sufficient diet.
- 03-15-2010, 05:56 PM
03-15-2010, 06:03 PM
[quote=jamjoe;2346589]It looks like ZMA is only good if you are already zinc deficient.
zinc, magnesium, and B6 are obviously important, but ZMA as Balco license it is way overpriced.
03-15-2010, 06:19 PM
03-15-2010, 07:02 PM
The ratio of bioavailbility of MgO2 and Mg Aspartate (the compound in ZMA) is 1:1.6, but the price is like times more. MgO2 is just dirt cheap.
I also think the rule of 'not to take ZMA and Calsium at the same time' is a myth. Ca compete carrier with Mg but Ca doesn't ban Mg's absorption. you don't want Mg to be compete just because it's expensive in ZMA. When I take MgO2 I don't really care if I waste some. Actually Ca+Mg makes me sleep better. high B6 cause vivid dream and can influence sleep quality. Too much Zn will be released through urine, it's a waste to take high dose especially the Zn in ZMA is expensive.
03-15-2010, 10:12 PM
Normal zinc blood levels are around 1.0 μg/mL. In this study, the athletes started with normal zinc levels and supplemented them up the 1.2 μg/mL after 8 weeks and there was no increase in performance or testosterone.
Here is one of the original studies that showed ZMA increases testosterone. The football players had below normal levels of zinc at 0.8 μg/mL, and ZMA supplementation increase their levels to normal 1.0 μg/mL. Bringing their zinc level back to normal caused a significant increase in testosterone.
Base on these studies, yes zinc is very important, but you only need to maintain healthy zinc levels, and a decent multivitamin should do that. In the study at the top of the thread, most of the zinc was being pissed away.
03-16-2010, 07:56 AM
agree with jamjoe.
and remember the scandal that a company put anabolic compound into ZMA? There is no point to do this if the original product really works.
03-16-2010, 08:00 AM
I'm no expert but I've read that Mag oxide has very poor bioavailability in the gut , something around 4 percent compared to 99 percent for lactate or 80 for glycinate - Aspartate , found in ZMA is something like 60? I would have to speculate that those who see results from ZMA are actually magnesium deficient - its common according to google and with I little research I turned up info that dietary intake has plummeted in the last century - mostly from softening of municipal water supplies and drinking filtered/bottled water. I take an additional glycinate supp with my ZMA just to be sure I get enough, its hard for a person with healthy kidneys to cause themselves toxicity so I don't worry about overdose.
03-16-2010, 08:55 AM
there are many different versions, but I think we pick the nih.gov one...
yes, Mg Oxide is 4%, Mg Carbonate is 30%, and Mg Lactace is 99%
but if you count in the elemental Mag ratio (it's about molecule weight)
Mg Oxide is 60%, MgCO3 is 29%, Mg Lactace is 12%
We take pills as their total weight, like 500mg of Mg pill.
so if you intake equal weight of the three compounds....
in the end you can use:
2.4%, 9%, 11.99% of the weight.
the differences become small.
For the Mg aspartate in ZMA, I am not sure about its bioavailability, base on your say, 60%, the molecular weight ratio of Mg/ Mg aspartate-HCl is 24/216 = 11%
11% x 60% = 6.6%
in the end you got just 6.6% of the whole weight, less than cheap MgCO3.
finally, I think bioavailability test is usually done with empty stomach. I don't have publication to support me but theoritically taking with meal can help Mg Oxide absorption a lot. (first you have bigger volume of liquid in your stomach thus increase dissolving, second when it dissolved you have amino acids there to help absorption, third it stays in your stomach and gut for longer time thus increase absorption too)
03-16-2010, 05:21 PM
zforce is cheap. Zinc only helps with test if you have a deficiency. Alcohol depletes the body of zinc. There is another reason I need the extra zinc. But I only take one pill instead of the 3 or 4 that's recommended. Not sure about calcium blocking zinc absorption. I take calcium in the morning and zinc at night.
03-16-2010, 05:46 PM
03-16-2010, 05:48 PM
Hell, Stress depletes Zinc, couple that with an intense exercise routine and you have a recipe for disaster.
Anecdotally you can find testimonial after testimonial around here about Zinc Supplementation.
Including mine with blood work.
The Historic PES Legend
03-16-2010, 06:22 PM
whether it increases test or not, it gives me perfect sleep which provides more beneficial growth for the muscles. so even though it may not increase test, it offers other things
Performance Labs Product Specialist
03-16-2010, 08:35 PM
It's cheap, I like it, I like how it effects my sleep. I've been using it on and off since my freshman year in college and will continue to use it. DaAdams is right, plenty of things can cause zinc depletion. Would rather pay the $10 a month for a ZMA supplement and know I'm covered than save the $10 per month ( 33 cents per day....) and not be covered.
03-16-2010, 08:50 PM
zinc is meant to elevate test beyond "normal" serum test levels, its more of a balancing act. If you have lower levels of test it can help elevate them, and as weightlifters (which I assume most readers of this form are) we do deplete zinc on a daily basis.
03-16-2010, 10:04 PM
The test said it was done on healthy people. Im sure half the people on here take there wejghtlifting beyond healthy.
03-17-2010, 04:15 AM
I've got to point out here that mg claims are based on the elemental content of a given supplement. 400mg aspartate vs. 400mg oxide has the same elemental magnesium content, this is why the supplement size of forms other than oxide is so much larger and why you only find oxide in a daily multivitamin, its compact. Oxide really is a worthless supplement
03-17-2010, 02:40 PM
03-17-2010, 05:25 PM
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