Natadrol vs Prime

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    Quote Originally Posted by cgoode View Post
    no it was to explain the runs i get from prime, I ran 3-4 when i used it year or two ago, last bottle i used was free and it did the same...jacked is much easier on the tummy
    First time I read that anyone gets runs from PRIME.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcharles View Post
    Both of these products are utterly useless. LG doesn't make a product worth mentioning, and USPLabs is the placebo joke of the internet. You would be better off spending your money on food, or AAS.
    Such strong statements! Should anyone really take them seriously?
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    Take who seriously??? LOL
    Working on living
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Guy View Post
    Take who seriously??? LOL
    The strong statements.
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    Prime has worked great for me. Have not tried the Natadrol yet. Ive got one bottle but I know im goin to need to pick up 2 more to run a proper lenght cycle. Ill be using TNA and TRS from Primordial Performance for pct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Guy View Post
    thanks Jay!!! I agree 100%. There are multiple threads where guys ACTUALLY LOG their daily results. Their numbers speak for themselves. If you have constructive criticism then let's have it, but this is just sounding like LG bashing for the sake of LG bashing to me.
    Ok, let me moderate this argument a bit. Yes, 99% of people on this board do love their sups (including myself) and rely on them on a daily basis. Slimcharles has a faulty argument because he has absolutely no data backing his claims, so just ignore him. People like Army Guy, however, do cite data, but it is not at all reliable data. Let me explain why:

    Logs do not actually prove anything about a supplement, no matter how detailed they are or how many people are logging a particular product with positive results. I do statistical analysis on climate change and agriculture at my college, and read numerous studies on everything from the environment to world economic trends to personal health and medicine on a daily basis. From my readings on medicine, I can tell you that the placebo effect has ENORMOUS power in all regards to personal health.

    To cite one specific example, in 1949 Dr. Stewart Wolf of the Cornell Medical Center investigated the placebo effect in pregnant women affected by nausea. He gave multiple women suffering from nausea a substance that he claimed was a "new, strong, very effective anti-sickness" drug, and in each woman the nausea had completely dissipated within 20 minutes of ingestion. Ironically, This miracle drug was actually Ipecac, a common vomit inducer. It is important to note that each woman had been given Ipecac on several occasions in the weeks prior (but disguised with a different flavor) and vomited on each occasion. In case you were wondering, the flavor of Ipecac has no impact on its effectiveness. (1)

    Placebos have proven to hold many other powers, including curing depression and killing pain equally as well as a moderate dose of morphine. The power of placebos has also been correlated to factors such as their cost, hype, and form (ex. sugar water injections are more effective than sugar pills).

    So how do we know what really works? Not logs, no sir. Double-blind studies testing a product directly against a placebo of the same form in a highly controlled setting is the only real way to know what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately, 99% of the supplements out there aren't backed by studies at all. The ones that are include whey protein, creatine monohydrate, beta alanine, GPLC, and a few others.

    To conclude, you're all wrong. We don't really know if natadrol or prime are placebos or the real deal. We may see increased strength, size, muscle density, etc. while taking them, but the power of the mind to create a reality out of a forgery cannot be overestimated. Just some food for thought.

    (1) Wolf S, "Effects of Suggestion and Conditioning on the Action of Chemical Agents in Human Subjects: The Pharmacology of Placebos", Journal of Clinical Investigation 1950 Jan; 29(1):100-09.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidget324 View Post
    Ok, let me moderate this argument a bit. Yes, 99% of people on this board do love their sups (including myself) and rely on them on a daily basis. Slimcharles has a faulty argument because he has absolutely no data backing his claims, so just ignore him. People like Army Guy, however, do cite data, but it is not at all reliable data. Let me explain why:

    Logs do not actually prove anything about a supplement, no matter how detailed they are or how many people are logging a particular product with positive results. I do statistical analysis on climate change and agriculture at my college, and read numerous studies on everything from the environment to world economic trends to personal health and medicine on a daily basis. From my readings on medicine, I can tell you that the placebo effect has ENORMOUS power in all regards to personal health.

    To cite one specific example, in 1949 Dr. Stewart Wolf of the Cornell Medical Center investigated the placebo effect in pregnant women affected by nausea. He gave multiple women suffering from nausea a substance that he claimed was a "new, strong, very effective anti-sickness" drug, and in each woman the nausea had completely dissipated within 20 minutes of ingestion. Ironically, This miracle drug was actually Ipecac, a common vomit inducer. It is important to note that each woman had been given Ipecac on several occasions in the weeks prior (but disguised with a different flavor) and vomited on each occasion. In case you were wondering, the flavor of Ipecac has no impact on its effectiveness. (1)

    Placebos have proven to hold many other powers, including curing depression and killing pain equally as well as a moderate dose of morphine. The power of placebos has also been correlated to factors such as their cost, hype, and form (ex. sugar water injections are more effective than sugar pills).

    So how do we know what really works? Not logs, no sir. Double-blind studies testing a product directly against a placebo of the same form in a highly controlled setting is the only real way to know what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately, 99% of the supplements out there aren't backed by studies at all. The ones that are include whey protein, creatine monohydrate, beta alanine, GPLC, and a few others.

    To conclude, you're all wrong. We don't really know if natadrol or prime are placebos or the real deal. We may see increased strength, size, muscle density, etc. while taking them, but the power of the mind to create a reality out of a forgery cannot be overestimated. Just some food for thought.

    (1) Wolf S, "Effects of Suggestion and Conditioning on the Action of Chemical Agents in Human Subjects: The Pharmacology of Placebos", Journal of Clinical Investigation 1950 Jan; 29(1):100-09.
    Man thats depressing. I just started Natadrol and know you got me thinking it'll all be placebo, which ruins my placebo affect!
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    Dear slim charles,

    I appreciate the surprise correspondence, even in the form of neg reps. I particularly enjoyed how you elucidate yourself; in fact, I'd like everyone else here to enjoy your concise verbiage:

    U mad you 35 and still small?

    Never before has so much been stated in so few words. Amazing. To answer your question, no, I am not mad I am still small. You see, I'm not a bodybuilder, or even a fitness freak. I have far more specific goals; I train to enable my judo. Being heavy for my slender build, it isn't at all in my best interest to gain weight. My goal is to get as strong as possible while remaining as light as possible. I can dominate in the under 185lb range, but over 200lbs is tough for me.

    I hope that answers your question. I'd love to correspond more at your leisure, however do not expect a return neg rep. That's for pussies.

    Nate
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    Dear slim charles,

    I appreciate the surprise correspondence, even in the form of neg reps. I particularly enjoyed how you elucidate yourself; in fact, I'd like everyone else here to enjoy your concise verbiage:

    U mad you 35 and still small?

    Never before has so much been stated in so few words. Amazing. To answer your question, no, I am not mad I am still small. You see, I'm not a bodybuilder, or even a fitness freak. I have far more specific goals; I train to enable my judo. Being heavy for my slender build, it isn't at all in my best interest to gain weight. My goal is to get as strong as possible while remaining as light as possible. I can dominate in the under 185lb range, but over 200lbs is tough for me.

    I hope that answers your question. I'd love to correspond more at your leisure, however do not expect a return neg rep. That's for pussies.

    Nate
    This coming from someone who negged me first because I called out his favorite company.

    I would like to see clinical data on the ingredients in Prime and Natadrol relating to muscle building. That's right there are none. Natadrol has a bogus study released done of cancer cell lines in a petri dish, which is a far cry from what would actually happen inside the human body.
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    lol, the only LG product I've used is their protein.

    What's your favorite supplement, slim?
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    This person is sounding a lot like someone from the 'other' forum. Perhaps a banned member from that 'other' forum and now here to stir as you did there. Hey I might be wrong but maybe I'm right.
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    I wouldn't bet against you. I'd bet he's a shill for another company, as well. There's been an influx of these lately, weird.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    I wouldn't bet against you. I'd bet he's a shill for another company, as well. There's been an influx of these lately, weird.
    This is due to the other forum dishing out loads of bans while they tighten up what can be said there. Now we are seeing those individuals head over here.
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    Ha, well, the mods here are not shy with the ban stick. Are those black helicopters I hear?
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    hey Poison he dissed me as much as you... sounds like our old Iranian friend!!! LOL All I know is when I am on Nata, I tone up and gain strength, same with Prime. When I am Not on them, right afterwords, The increases stop as do the toning. In fact, it usually goes the opposite direction, and all this with NO CHANGE in diet and exercise. For a non scientist no brain having gym rat that likes big guns and my hot wife... that's good enough for me!
    Working on living
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    lol, the only LG product I've used is their protein.

    What's your favorite supplement, slim?
    Good for you then, but even their protein is subpar.

    My favorite supplement include BCAA's( xtend, recoverpro, IBCAA), creatine (any creapure), fish oil (carlson's very finest), vitamin D3 5kiu, glutamine (omega sports), Taurine (nimbus nutrition), PP Green Tea, 200mg caffeine caps. I also like forskolin and TTA for cutting.

    I don't buy into any of these bs products with no research behind them. Everything I use has been proven to work in double blind studies, except maybe the glutamine.

    I have no idea what people are talking about me being banned, or Iranian. I barely post here. Craig, you seem to think anyone that anyone who bashes LG is the same person. Unfortunately, the only board where LG is taken seriously is here.
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    You're gonna need to be more specific: how is LG protein sub-par?
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    No, what I am saying is what you say and how you say it is familiar.

    Enough of this 'other' forum troll guys. Just ignore him.

    Slim, take this somewhere else and don't ruin this thread please. Opinion is fine, but it's how you say it that's the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigmatthew View Post
    No, what I am saying is what you say and how you say it is familiar.

    Enough of this 'other' forum troll guys. Just ignore him.

    Slim, take this somewhere else and don't ruin this thread please. Opinion is fine, but it's how you say it that's the problem.
    Craig you have a problem with me telling people the truth? I said why I don't like LG sciences, people don't have to believe me, it's my opinion.
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    01-21-2010 | 01:01 PM
    slimcharles
    Posts: 51 Reputation: 75902

    What the hell LG? Still nothing.
    Quote

    This was posted by you in a natadrol thread slim, so did you ever receive your natadrol??

    So what is it? Did you not like naradrol? Or did you never order it and just wanted to make a scene ?

    Strange.... Also you selling t911?? Why not try it and enjoy the libido gains
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigmatthew View Post
    01-21-2010 | 01:01 PM
    slimcharles
    Posts: 51 Reputation: 75902

    What the hell LG? Still nothing.
    Quote

    This was posted by you in a natadrol thread slim, so did you ever receive your natadrol??

    So what is it? Did you not like naradrol? Or did you never order it and just wanted to make a scene ?

    Strange.... Also you selling t911?? Why not try it and enjoy the libido gains
    I never ordered and wanted to make a scene.

    I had T-911 from a trade and sold it here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcharles View Post
    I never ordered and wanted to make a scene.

    I had T-911 from a trade and sold it here.
    Sorry sarcasm doesn't work well here. Did you use your natadrol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    You're gonna need to be more specific: how is LG protein sub-par?
    Still waiting.
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    Verrry interesting. Pass the popcorn.
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    let's see if i could say this right; with prime i experienced somewhat of a hardening effect and strength gains whereas with natadrol i had strength gains but without the hardening effect it was more like volumized-vascularity sort of and i experienced more frequent erections with the natadrol than with prime but with prime the strength gains was a little more but it didn't give the erections that came with the natadrol
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    Still waiting.
    It's absolutely disgusting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcharles View Post
    It's absolutely disgusting.
    Sooo...lg sucks because their protein is not to your taste?


    Got it.
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    You mentioned their bcaa as being underdosed. Is it illegal to take....ssshhhh.....2 servings? Did you possibly consider cost per gram when formulating your opinion, or just look at the smaller serving size, and go from there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-tightend83 View Post
    Verrry interesting. Pass the popcorn.

    Sorry, we're all out of popcorn here, but our new friend has plenty of whine and cheese, if it's all the same to you?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigmatthew View Post
    Sorry sarcasm doesn't work well here. Did you use your natadrol?
    Bunp
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    Lol bump I mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    Sorry, we're all out of popcorn here, but our new friend has plenty of whine and cheese, if it's all the same to you?


    LMFAO!!! Whiney, like, as in SOUR GRAPES?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigmatthew View Post
    Lol bump I mean.
    Yeah, right. You know what you meant!!! Do I even want to go there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcharles View Post
    I would, but what's the point? Natadrol main ingredient is not androgenic in the least and their entire study on it is flawed. Should I be looking to logs? Remember CEE logs? "OMG NO BLOATING SO MUCH STRENGTH, etc." Now we know CEE never worked in the first place according to multiple studies. With logs there are just too many variables and the placebo effect plays a huge role.

    People are going to buy anything that promises to be strong and "androgenic" but are too afraid of using real stuff like test, which is actually safer and cheaper than 99% of the worthless supplements these days. The only problem would be legal implications, but a lot of people here are taking banned pro hormones anyway.
    Ok, seriously get a clue and buy a vowel.

    Two things here:

    1: You are welcome to your own opinion. If you do not want to purchase LG, that is entirely up to you.

    2: You need to look further into what you are talking about before you actually do. The studies you cite(there is another thread about this) does NOT state ANYWHERE that CEE does not work. It only states efficacy as compared to Creatine Monohydrate.

    Go back and read, and stop letting the boys at the 'other' board tell you what a study says when they don't even read or understand the entire lit.

    So, at this point, any points you make (aside from personal opinion)for the time being I'll have to deem as ill informed and/or misaligned......IMHO, of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicSWOLE View Post
    Ok, seriously get a clue and buy a vowel.

    Two things here:

    1: You are welcome to your own opinion. If you do not want to purchase LG, that is entirely up to you.

    2: You need to look further into what you are talking about before you actually do. The studies you cite(there is another thread about this) does NOT state ANYWHERE that CEE does not work. It only states efficacy as compared to Creatine Monohydrate.

    Go back and read, and stop letting the boys at the 'other' board tell you what a study says when they don't even read or understand the entire lit.

    So, at this point, any points you make (aside from personal opinion)for the time being I'll have to deem as ill informed and/or misaligned......IMHO, of course.
    See this is what I love about anabolicminds.com, it's so full of shills that I get a laugh every time I visit a thread.

    Good, don't take my opinion as serious, continue wasting your money. What do I care? Oh and btw:

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01606a060

    "It can be concluded that a large portion of the creatine ethyl ester was being degraded within the GI tract after ingestion", the researchers conclude. "Furthermore, it appears that the skeletal muscle uptake of creatine ethyl ester uptake was not significant enough to increase skeletal muscle creatine levels without significant degradation to creatinine occurring".
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcharles View Post
    See this is what I love about anabolicminds.com, it's so full of shills that I get a laugh every time I visit a thread.

    Good, don't take my opinion as serious, continue wasting your money. What do I care? Oh and btw:

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01606a060

    "It can be concluded that a large portion of the creatine ethyl ester was being degraded within the GI tract after ingestion", the researchers conclude. "Furthermore, it appears that the skeletal muscle uptake of creatine ethyl ester uptake was not significant enough to increase skeletal muscle creatine levels without significant degradation to creatinine occurring".
    Re-read that buddy. The study you provided actually looks pretty positive on CEE and that there is more absorption of creatine than creatinine. Again....re-read the lit. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicSWOLE View Post
    Re-read that buddy. The study you provided actually looks pretty positive on CEE and that there is more absorption of creatine than creatinine. Again....re-read the lit. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    First time I read that anyone gets runs from PRIME.
    I have never heard of this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Craigmatthew View Post
    This person is sounding a lot like someone from the 'other' forum. Perhaps a banned member from that 'other' forum and now here to stir as you did there. Hey I might be wrong but maybe I'm right.
    I agree..
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    Ok so back to Natadrol vs Prime... enough of this crap
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    Mmmm....

    I'm on week 2 of trifecta with Anabolic Pump. I've increased my cals by around 50% and have not gained fat and in fact lost some whilst adding muscle. The last time I did this routine and diet I put on around 4 - 5 lbs of fat in 4 weeks.

    If this is the placebo effect...bring it on...I love it!!
  

  
 

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