Is it the supps or the exercise?

  1. Is it the supps or the exercise?


    Generally, when a bodybuilder starts taking supplements, they work out more intensely to make the most of their purchases. But I wonder if the gains they see are more of a result from the exercise than the supps.

    With the exception of roids, are there any supplements you've taken which have without a doubt aided in your gains, and why do you think so?

  2. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    I've taken a number that have definitely added to gains or recovery.

    But if you only work out or eat right when you are taking supplements then its really juts a motivation issue and you need to conquer that. If anything, comically i sometimes am looser in my diet or training when using certain supplement as I know I can still continue progress even if I skip a workout here or there, or have some ice cream.
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  3. I think that it's mostly the exercide intensity going up because you know you're using something. For me, I haven't used too many supps that I've seen a lot from. I've gotten to the point where I just stick to creatine mono and beta alanine mostly.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.
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  4. I've tried all kinds of stuff and for the most part, I noticed no significant difference. Some products that seem to do do something for me are creatine, and BCAA's. Of course the protein makes a difference.

    The only product I can honestly say that made an unmistakable difference was when I was on a Havoc cycle, but of course, it was in the steroid family.

  5. Good question. I've been using Jack3d with 1 swagger for a month and a half or so (not pushing either sup on anyone... just my experience here).

    I'm definitely seeing gains, but also slimming. I want to attribute this to a higher intensity in my workouts from the energy and focus I'm getting from these products. I've upped my routine from 4 days to 5 days and an hour and a half up from an hour. So there's definitely more intense longer workouts. I've also noticed more of an urgency to get to the gym (even on off days) that I've never experienced before.

    However, I haven't increased the weight I was using before these supps, and have only added more core/abs and a lot more cardio. Not sure why I would be seeing gains. I've had people comment on the visible growth in my arms, and shoulders... maybe they just 'appear' bigger from trimming?
    Is creatine supposed to cause gains? I don't use any NOX products, but when I did in the past they made me look ...puffier. Random... but sort of on topic.



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  6. people always tell me that I look bigger when i lean out, I think it's got to do with the waist to shoulder width ratio.

    I forgot to add that I DO get a LOT of milage out of stims. I love my stims.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by bound View Post
    people always tell me that I look bigger when i lean out, I think it's got to do with the waist to shoulder width ratio.

    I forgot to add that I DO get a LOT of milage out of stims. I love my stims.
    Bump on the stims, they make life a lot easier.

    IMO, supps are a small part of the equation. The stims are the supps that have given me the best results. I also like Divanex between cycles.

  8. What kind of stims are we talking about?

  9. I personally rotate stims, caffeine, 1,3 dimeth, adderal(prescription, of course), PEA, yohimbine, etc.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.

  10. Kind of new with the lingo.. Sups, Stims... I just assumed Stims were Sups. Should I be more specific in the future?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by AtomStrange View Post
    Kind of new with the lingo.. Sups, Stims... I just assumed Stims were Sups. Should I be more specific in the future?

    stims are a class of supps, like nutrient partioners, or thermogenics are. After reading around a bit, it'll all come to you quick.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.

  12. sizeon seems to put on 3-5 pounds a month on me. My neck thickens up. Unfortunately I lose most of the gains within a few weeks after stopping. Not much else has worked for me.

  13. Yeah, the muscle loss off cycle sucks. This last break, I seem to have lost some but added fat, so my weight didn't change. Now I need to burn this gut and get that muscle back.

  14. Unless your using ph's its going to be the exercise 95% of the time i mean lets face it you dont see any significant gains most of the time from some of these supplements and if you look at it like say you gained 7 pounds with Product A whats to say you couldnt of gained those 7 pounds without Product A?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by jumpshot903 View Post
    Unless your using ph's its going to be the exercise 95% of the time i mean lets face it you dont see any significant gains most of the time from some of these supplements and if you look at it like say you gained 7 pounds with Product A whats to say you couldnt of gained those 7 pounds without Product A?
    Absolutely. Besides, what may do wonders for one person may not do jack for another. Unless someone does their own personal scientific study on themselves, it's almost impossible to tell if the supps are doing anything.

    PH's are a different story. Greater results but greater risks. I found that out the hard way.
  16. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon75 View Post
    Unless someone does their own personal scientific study on themselves, it's almost impossible to tell if the supps are doing anything.
    A consistant and detailed training journal and diet will allow someone over a period of time to know quite well exactly what does and doesn't perform.

    Don't be THAT guy that goes into the gym without a journal and guesses what exercise he wants to do and the weights and reps he will perfrom.
    We live in a time where our planet suffers from two epidemics simultaneously - starvation and obesity.

    Look at all these little kids taking care of the music biz, don't their business take good care of me.

    I have the fire, I have the force, I have the power to make my evil take it's course.

  17. It's not that. I'm just saying that there are so may factors involved that it's very hard to tell what percentage of the gains are supplement related.
  18. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon75 View Post
    It's not that. I'm just saying that there are so may factors involved that it's very hard to tell what percentage of the gains are supplement related.
    What are these factors? How many of these factors are there?

    My point is - if you know (document) what you are doing you can identify and quantify these factors and account for such.
    We live in a time where our planet suffers from two epidemics simultaneously - starvation and obesity.

    Look at all these little kids taking care of the music biz, don't their business take good care of me.

    I have the fire, I have the force, I have the power to make my evil take it's course.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    What are these factors? How many of these factors are there?

    My point is - if you know (document) what you are doing you can identify and quantify these factors and account for such.
    What I mean is that one would have to go through a training period without any supplements and then repeat the exact same training period (reps, sets, diet, rest, etc.) and add supplements to see if any difference exists. But even then, the body's development is unpredictable.
  20. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Well, but assuming diet stays constant, and workout structure as well, an 8 week period where you lost 2lbs of fat vs one where you didn't is noticeable, similarly major lifts going up by 5lbs over 8 weeks vs going up by 15 is noticeable.
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  21. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon75 View Post
    What I mean is that one would have to go through a training period without any supplements and then repeat the exact same training period (reps, sets, diet, rest, etc.) and add supplements to see if any difference exists. But even then, the body's development is unpredictable.
    Yes. Unless this exercise thing is just a trend or a phase you are going through, that is exactly what you should be doing. It does not have to be periods of no supplements when you already have a baseline for your performance with your staples.

    8 years of training and never one have I trained without a journal. If you don't have it with you when you get in the gym - GO HOME!
    We live in a time where our planet suffers from two epidemics simultaneously - starvation and obesity.

    Look at all these little kids taking care of the music biz, don't their business take good care of me.

    I have the fire, I have the force, I have the power to make my evil take it's course.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Well, but assuming diet stays constant, and workout structure as well, an 8 week period where you lost 2lbs of fat vs one where you didn't is noticeable, similarly major lifts going up by 5lbs over 8 weeks vs going up by 15 is noticeable.
    Absolutely. There would really have to be a dramatic change in strength gains, muscle size, fat loss, etc. to be convinced that the supplement is playing a major role.

  23. There is a very short list that I would give the "without a doubt" label. At the very top of that list is high-dose BCAAs.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    There is a very short list that I would give the "without a doubt" label. At the very top of that list is high-dose BCAAs.
    Yeah, I would say BCAA's, creatine, and proteins. Over the years, I think they've actually done something.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon75 View Post
    Yeah, I would say BCAA's, creatine, and proteins. Over the years, I think they've actually done something.
    I give protein a different classification because it technically is a food. Obviously, extra protein can help to increase LBM and this is just another way to increase protein intake.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  26. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I give protein a different classification because it technically is a food. Obviously, extra protein can help to increase LBM and this is just another way to increase protein intake.
    Yeah, it is a food in many ways, but it's also tends to be loaded with a bunch of vitamins and such. I guess it depends on the brand.
  27. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    the l-dopa + gaba products have significantly enhanced my day to day recovery as well, without any question. Whether that truly translates into gains or not, feeling less sore the next day is valuable
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    the l-dopa + gaba products have significantly enhanced my day to day recovery as well, without any question. Whether that truly translates into gains or not, feeling less sore the next day is valuable
    That's about the only additional benefit that I got from mega-dosing fish oil (30 grams/day), was no DOMS and no bruising(i've got a rough job).
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.

  29. supps i take aside from multiv and fishoil,for me,stims like geranamine/caffeine or EC only when i need it or im getting a little gut,creatine mono and protein are the other supps i take.a mild sleep aid would help,like ZMA for recovery,no need for high priced HGH boosters thatll help u sleep.i also smoke/vape weed, helps a lot for recovery,sleep,DOMs,and apetite increase.

  30. I think a lot could be mental as well. If you believe the supp is giving you a boost, you may tend to work out harder.

  31. Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon75 View Post
    I think a lot could be mental as well. If you believe the supp is giving you a boost, you may tend to work out harder.
    I tend to make sure that I'm working out as hard as I can so that taking the supp doesnt' go to waste.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by bound View Post
    I tend to make sure that I'm working out as hard as I can so that taking the supp doesnt' go to waste.
    That's what I do as well. I feel more motivated to go that extra mile in order to make the most out of the supp usage. I suppose even if the supp isn't doing as much as I think, it still motivates me work out harder. So I guess it works to some capacity either way.
  

  
 

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