anti e's while cutting
- 01-24-2003, 12:06 AM
anti e's while cutting
last summer i found that the last bit of fat came off better with a anti e. i think i used sann's estrodex. any way i was wondering if anyone had any theories on one anti e being better than another for fat loss. and if so, why it would work better than others. i've used 6-oxo recently after a tren & 4ad cycle. it worked good.
- 01-24-2003, 12:16 AM
An increase in estrogen distributes fat around the body (especially around the adipose) So using an anti-estrogen to suppress basal estrogen levels, is not a bad idea brother....
heres a couple interesting studies that might explain it a little better than I can:
De Pergola G.
Istituto di Clinica Medica, Endocrinologia e Malattie Metaboliche dell'Universita di Bari, Policlinico di Bari, Italy. firstname.lastname@example.org
Testosterone (T) and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) are fat-reducing hormones, even though they exert this effect by different mechanisms. In particular, T inhibits lipid uptake and lipoprotein-lipase (LDL) activity in adipocytes, and stimulates lipolysis by increasing the number of lipolytic beta-adrenergic receptors. An indirect sign of these effects is the decrease of adipocyte leptin production. Lastly, T inhibits differentiation of adipocyte precursor cells. Concerning DHEA, this hormone does not seen to have any of T effects; however, DHEA stimulates resting metabolic rate (RMR) and lipid oxidation, and enhances glucose disposal, by increasing the expression of GLUT-1 and GLUT-4 on fat cell plasma membrane. The insulin-like effect of DHEA would be associated to a decrease of plasma insulin concentrations and, thus, to an increase of the molar ratio between lipolytic hormones and insulin. Noteworthy, the fat-reducing effect of both T and DHEA seems to be more evident at the level of visceral adipose tissue.
At any rate, the best way to approach problem fat areas is going to be through diet, exercise and selective use of CLen, ECA, NYC and even testosterone.
I am very skeptical of topical fat burners like yohimburn. I have used them myself and I believe that the majority of "fat loss" is really water loss or the placebo effect.
Yohimbine has repeatedly been shown to have no effect on "estrogenic" fat.Here is an interesting study:
Topical fat reduction.
Greenway FL, Bray GA, Heber D.
Department of Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine, Torrance, CA, USA.
The fat on women's thighs is more difficult to mobilize due to increased alpha-2 adrenergic receptor activity induced by estrogen. Lipolysis can be initiated through adipocyte receptor stimulation (beta adrenergic) or inhibition (adenosine or alpha-2 adrenergic) or by inhibition of phosphodiesterase. Since many women desire regional thigh fat loss, a series of clinical trials were initiated using one thigh as a double-blinded control. Trial #1: Five overweight women had injections of isoproterenol at intervals around the thigh three times a week for 4 weeks with diet and walking. Trial #2: Five overweight woman had ointment containing forskolin, yohimbine and aminophylline applied to the thigh five times a week for 4 weeks after hypertonic warm soaks with a diet and walking. Trial #3: Eighteen overweight women were divided into three groups of six and trial #2 was repeated with each agent alone vs. placebo using forskolin, yohimbine or aminophylline in separate ointments. Trial #4: Thirty overweight women had 10% aminophylline ointment applied to the thigh five times a week for 6 weeks with diet and walking. Chemistry panel, theophylline level and patch testing were performed. Trial #5: Twelve women had trial #4 repeated with 2% aminophylline cream without a diet or walking. Trial #6: Trial #5 was repeated with 0.5% aminophylline cream. All trials except yohimbine ointment gave significantly more girth loss from the treated thigh (p < 0.05 to p < 0.001). Chemistry panel showed no toxicity. Theophylline was undetectable and patch testing was negative. We conclude that topical fat reduction for women's thighs can be achieved without diet or exercise.
- 01-24-2003, 12:35 AM
In short- fat loss is a big reason why you take anti-estrogens while "on" and you may not know it. That gyno is a lump of fat under or around your nipple, these anti-estrogens block or eliminate that estrogen, thus stopping the fat and gyno. Same thing applies to other parts of the body. Estrogen is the female hormone (duh) so the distribution is usually around the breast, hips and thighs, and a large part of the time, the love handles also. So using anti-estrogens while cutting isnt a bad idea at all. Femara is a good selection and I wish I could dig up the article that fully explains scientifically why.... I'll look...
01-24-2003, 08:52 PM
is there one that would work better then others? maybe one that is slightly anabolic to help prevent muscle wasting(a big problem i have once i get below 9-10 %. i get really weak.
01-24-2003, 09:02 PM
That means you're probably losing a bit of muscle in that process...keep your protein high, an anti-estrogen wont really preserve muscle, but femara is pretty good and liquid clomid also...
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