IS TOO MUCH PROTEIN COUNTER PRODUCTIVE?
- 01-05-2010, 06:43 AM
IS TOO MUCH PROTEIN COUNTER PRODUCTIVE?
Ok let me explain what i mean
I read online about a bodybuilder who recommended the following;
20 gms of whey drank about 30-60min before workout
20 gms in a intra workout drink
followed by 20 gms included in a post workout drink.
Timewise i guess youre consuming 60gms over 2.5 -3 hour period without a real break.
Can the body deal with this in a way that say 80 percent at least is going to get used or is consuming this amount a waste of time?
Also does the intra workout drink pull blood away from the muscle and divert it to the intestines who have the job of digesting the intra workout drink?
Any thoughts please?
- 01-05-2010, 10:07 AM
It depends on the TYPE of protein as to its absorption rate. However, 60g of protein over that period is fine; there is no evidence to suggest that it is "a waste of time". Again, depending on the type of protein re how fast it is going to be digested.
Remember that it will also depend upon the individual as to how much protein is actually required.
Check out the article, Bustin' Broscience: Protein.
01-05-2010, 11:46 AM
01-05-2010, 11:56 AM
After a certain point your body no longer absorbs the extra protein and you urinate the rest of it out. I believe it is not too good for your kidneys to filtrate that much protein but hey I'm not a doctor
01-05-2010, 12:00 PM
depends on what you mean by "80 percent at least is going to get used". 80% won't get used for building muscle, thats for sure. every pound of muscle has only around 160g of protein to make it up, and odds are your daily simple replacement need is in the 100g area roughly, so the excess you take in will get broken down to amino acids and then converted into glucose.
01-05-2010, 12:09 PM
Sorry but I disagree. My reasoning is as follows:
1. The main problem is insufficient protein not excess. Smeton Yea diagnosed that as a problem with my diet. Alot of nutritionists have come to this theory as a general health regime (the "sharp end of chronic fatigue").
2. Chronic levels of excess protein can result in kidney stones. HOWEVER if you have your kidney function checked (creatinine levels) when you are off-cycle creatine: there isn't a problem. If you have sky high creatinine levels just ease off the protein.
Primodial P are selling Premax which has highly absorbable "whey fractions" (I forget exactly what protein it is). I'm going for it 2010. PP seldom get there science wrong, i.e. make exaggerated claims. This looks exciting.
01-05-2010, 12:40 PM
i think that's an excessive amount of protein by 10g or so - 25 pre workout, 25 post workout is fine, more than that IMO is overkill. also, remember that pro bb'ers advice about how their body absorbs protein, is also because they're on gear which allows them to absorb more - steroids increase protein synthesis, as obviously you're growing muscle faster while taking steroids. just food for thought.
01-05-2010, 01:14 PM
01-05-2010, 01:23 PM
Basically 60g of protein powder is about 40g of neat protein.
Generally 0.5 - 1g/lb body weight of neat protein. For me 40g is around either 2/5 or 1/5 of my intake. I forget which value is recommended in adrenal fatigue (sorry I confused it with chronic fatigue - they're very different).
If I ate 1kg of chicken per day I'd hit the upper "normal" limit of protein for my body weight.
01-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Oh I remember now. I use 2g/kg which is around 1g/lb body weight. That neat protein not amount of meat. This I'm calling "normal". I aim for 200g neat protein per day - but usually hit around 150g. Chicken is high in neat protein but is only 1/3 protein (I think) to its weight. Whey is v. high in "neat" protein.
Many guys on here use 2g/lb of body weight. I am not sure whether this is neat protein or amount of protein based food.
01-05-2010, 02:08 PM
01-05-2010, 02:13 PM
Also I was told by a trainer at a gym that the body can only digest and take in 30g of protein in one sitting and that everything else is stored as fat. Not sure of this has any merit either as most of them are idiots anyway
Also not sure if it was 30g or another number sorry bad memory
01-05-2010, 02:16 PM
There is a huge difference in taking in 30g of protein from whey isolate, and taking in 30g of protein by eating a 4oz piece of steak. Just digestive difference alone is huge. The steak will take more than 8 hours to digest, so you can take in a WHOLE lot more protein that way in one sitting than whey isolate, which takes under 3 hours to digest.
01-05-2010, 04:57 PM
01-05-2010, 05:06 PM
01-05-2010, 05:25 PM
yeah. It was just what I put together from reading medical studies on it. Theres no simple answer of how much protein you can eat in one sitting, but there are some fairly well defined limits as to how much in amino acids from protein you can reasonably use and retain as protein per hour, based on the type of protein. Whey isolate as high as 10g/hr, casein as low as 6g/hr, BCAAs I think were as high as 12-15g/hr. But again the issue even then is that comically the BCAAs tended to show more protein oxidation - the body had a higher loss of existing protein while using them, and casein had the lowest oxidation so that in the end all 3 netted about same retained nitrogen. Comical really.
In the end normal average person can digest and process somwhere between 200-400g of protein a day indefinitely (I saw the math somewhere on enzyme production based on size, sex, racial background, etc) without negative health consequences. But like I said, if your daily upkeep for turnover of muscle breakdown only is 100-150g/day going much over 200 is pointless (unless its a matter of convenience) as you aren't synthesizing 3/4lb of new muscle a day. In the end your body uses the excess as if it were carbs (basically) so rather than spending the $3 for an extra pound of good ground beef for an extra 160g of protein you may as well save the money and spend 20 cents on 160g of carbs from brown rice
That said, I sometimes have days where my protein intake is over 300g, just because shakes and bars can be a convenience when travelling or being out of the house and I tend to not like having high carb shakes or bars.
01-05-2010, 05:42 PM
I am a big believer in upping the protein equals upping the gains just take digestive enzymes with every meal or your room will smell like a fart factory. I am serious here it has been so bad it grosses out myself esp when i mix 400 grams protein at 300-400 carbs or more in a day.
All I know when ever i started upping my protein to at 1.7-1.8 grams a day I started gaining more muscle mass and looking denser and harder. It made a dramatic difference than 1 gram.
Just got done 75-80 grams of protein from eggs and whey(I do not count the protein in wheat,low fat cheese's and stuff like that)
I am not going to argue with science, science may say the body can only digest 30 grams of protein at time time, ill let science be right and myself be big. My body digests it fine.
here is a nice video
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=471hnXCzajI"]YouTube- Blood & Nutrition, How Your Body Works 12[/ame]
as matthias7 said getting blood work after stopping creatine for at least two weeks to make sure everything is functioning properly and digestion is happening; although, I would not sweat it if you do not suspect a problem because most younger people in general do not have these problems. I got it because I have really good insurance and it covers these for free.
When I am cutting body fat toward the end when the body fat seems to be stalling I may drop protein but nothing under a gram and only for a short period of time.
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01-07-2010, 03:41 PM
01-07-2010, 03:57 PM
anything your body doesnt use gets stored as fat. very complex finding out exact amounts your body needs. and too many vit. minerals can be very toxic and show the similar symptoms as deficiancies.
and if you want to figure out your recommended protein intake its 2.2 of every kg of your weight
which would be about half of your body weight
soo me being at 160 i need to atleast get 80grams of protein daily.
thats the book talkin. now i normally take in about 100g just to be on the safe side.
1 gram per body weight is just muscle magazines talkin. and if u do your research youll find alot of the info in the magazines wrong. with the exception of some mags.
Last edited by Jake Fires; 01-07-2010 at 04:00 PM. Reason: mor info
01-07-2010, 04:02 PM
01-07-2010, 04:06 PM
Regardless, experience does matter. Most will state if you want to gain muscle and strength you do really need more protein. At 160 lbs, I would think that you will not gain alot (muscle or strength) depending on your CNS demands as is.
I also suggest increasing fiber, water and alkaline foods for maximum absorption and proper PH levels.
01-07-2010, 04:22 PM
im gonna actually try to get in more protien now that im reading everyones posts , books change, and so does science. yes i am a hard gainer, even when i had a gym member ship 2 years ago at 150lbs i was benching 210lbs 4 sets 10 reps. considering my body weight thats dam good. pound for pound i have beastly strength. maybe increae my protein intake to 150g>?>?
01-07-2010, 05:06 PM
01-07-2010, 05:17 PM
01-07-2010, 06:22 PM
01-07-2010, 07:12 PM
as much as people say it is genetics I think people put too much emphasis on them and if they would get their diet in order, train hard their "genetics" would change. Just my opinion
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01-07-2010, 09:54 PM
01-08-2010, 08:13 AM
Ive read this and it has given me doubts over the validity of the post work out drinkforthis reason.
It would appear that drinking a whey only drink , despite whey having the fastest rate of absorbtion than any other protein, peak amino acids levels are not reached until 3 hours after ingestion.The addition of carbs to that drink may make absorbtion slower.
So surely it would be better to consume a whey only drink at a time to ensure that peak amino acid levels are reached whilest training overlapping for a short time after training eg shower time, getting changed etc
Carbs could be still be taken after training to replenish glycogen stores .As this peak is reached every 3 hours then if required a further whey protein drink could be taken say on return home .
01-08-2010, 09:38 AM
the whey peak is in about 45-60 minutes, and lasts about 3 hours. But if you are looking for having aminos loose in bloodstream immediately postworkout then the best bet would be to take in some casein 3-4 hrs preworkout as it would still be in bloodstream, but not be in stomach
01-08-2010, 09:48 AM
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