Does cissus decrease protein synthesis?

[Mikey851]

Since cissus has effects related to NSAIDS does it decrease protein synthesis? I want the positive effects on pain relief but do not want to inhibit gains.

 

[Mikey851]

bump

 

[Rosie Chee]

Since cissus has effects related to NSAIDS does it decrease protein synthesis? I want the positive effects on pain relief but do not want to inhibit gains.

No, Cissus does NOT decrease protein synthesis. It is NOT going to inhibit your gains.

~Rosie
Team APPNUT

 

[Mikey851]

No, Cissus does NOT decrease protein synthesis. It is NOT going to inhibit your gains.

~Rosie
Team APPNUT

Thanks for your help Rosie. :veryhappy:

 

[borobulker]

Rosie is right... The actions of Cissus are not like that of NSAIDs. The therapeutic tonic/natural anti-inflammatory effect from Cissus will not have a negative effect on protein synthesis. As a matter of fact, SuperCissus RX actually increases protein synthesis. So while your body rebuilds and regenerates connective tissue, you can build muscle too!

Patented USPlabs SuperCissus RX

 

[Mikey851]

Rosie is right... The actions of Cissus are not like that of NSAIDs. The therapeutic tonic/natural anti-inflammatory effect from Cissus will not have a negative effect on protein synthesis. As a matter of fact, SuperCissus RX actually increases protein synthesis. So while your body rebuilds and regenerates connective tissue, you can build muscle too!

Patented USPlabs SuperCissus RX

That's great. As far as the dosing goes do you guys recommend the aggressive dosing at first or should I just start with the maintanence dose? I'm just trying to get the longest time out of one bottle that I can because it's so expensive.

 

[JudgementDay]

That's great. As far as the dosing goes do you guys recommend the aggressive dosing at first or should I just start with the maintanence dose? I'm just trying to get the longest time out of one bottle that I can because it's so expensive.

Super Cissus works so much better then Nsaids, I've been through all the anti inflammatory stuff! IMO I would use 6 caps a day for 2-4 weeks then go down to 2 caps, 2 times a day.

 

[Mikey851]

Super Cissus works so much better then Nsaids, I've been through all the anti inflammatory stuff! IMO I would use 6 caps a day for 2-4 weeks then go down to 2 caps, 2 times a day.

Sounds good. I appreciate all of the help.

 

[borobulker]

That's great. As far as the dosing goes do you guys recommend the aggressive dosing at first or should I just start with the maintanence dose? I'm just trying to get the longest time out of one bottle that I can because it's so expensive.

If you are trying to rehab an injury, dose high.

If it is for general health and wellness; 2-3 capsules, 2-3 times per day works excellent!

 

[bubsnt3]

Rosie is right... The actions of Cissus are not like that of NSAIDs. The therapeutic tonic/natural anti-inflammatory effect from Cissus will not have a negative effect on protein synthesis. As a matter of fact, SuperCissus RX actually increases protein synthesis. So while your body rebuilds and regenerates connective tissue, you can build muscle too!

Patented USPlabs SuperCissus RX

Just have to chime in and say that the Super Cissus RX is definately the best Cissus product available. I am not sure what you guys do with it but you do it right. I tried the Primaforce and other %40 extracts which I bought because of the higher % but they are about half (if that) as effective as Super Cissus. Glad that I took the chance to see what you guys had b/c it is night and day different from the rest... even the higher extracts.

And to OP, it should increase protein synthesis if anything..

K-

 

[poison]

Just have to chime in and say that the Super Cissus RX is definately the best Cissus product available. I am not sure what you guys do with it but you do it right. I tried the Primaforce and other %40 extracts which I bought because of the higher % but they are about half (if that) as effective as Super Cissus. Glad that I took the chance to see what you guys had b/c it is night and day different from the rest... even the higher extracts.

And to OP, it should increase protein synthesis if anything..

K-

Agreed 100%. Super Cissus is the only one to take.

 

[TheLastRonin]

I frickin Love Cissus. Worth every damn penny.

 

[John Smeton]

Cissus inhibits pgf-2a which that is what fish oil inhibits. The exact opposite effect is what x factor does and red meat, eggs, meats(arachidonic acid) so yes it does inhibit protein synthesis to some degree,however, there are many more processes, hormones, in the body that add mass. Furthermore, if these levels are kept too high joint issues are more likely so this is not a bad thing as a balance is crucial for the body. Too much pgf-2a levels are not good and can have side effects if elevated for a long time.

to answer your question it is not as simple as black and white yes or no.. yes it does to some degree just like fish oil does but that is not a bad thing. Furthermore, as long as a person does not drive these levels to low there is no problem in adding muscle.

With that said I always cycle my cissus. remember there are certain times in your training/life when it is better to inhibit pgf-2a levels and certain times to keep it normal or raise it if your joints and body can handle it. I like to stay in the middle and lower zones(middle most of the time) because I have had a serious joint injury in the past. that is the beauty of bodybuilding changing your body processes though knowledge most people have no clue about manipulating(or changing as in epigenetics) many of these natural body processes to sway them to get the results the person wants.

 

[Mikey851]

That's what I have is Super Cissus Rx.

 

[bubsnt3]

Cissus inhibits pgf-2a which that is what fish oil inhibits. The exact opposite effect is what x factor does and red meat, eggs, meats(arachidonic acid) so yes it does inhibit protein synthesis to some degree,however, there are many more processes, hormones, in the body that add mass. Furthermore, if these levels are kept too high joint issues are more likely so this is not a bad thing as a balance is crucial for the body. Too much pgf-2a levels are not good and can have side effects if elevated for a long time.

to answer your question it is not as simple as black and white yes or no.. yes it does to some degree just like fish oil does but that is not a bad thing. Furthermore, as long as a person does not drive these levels to low there is no problem in adding muscle.

With that said I always cycle my cissus. remember there are certain times in your training/life when it is better to inhibit pgf-2a levels and certain times to keep it normal or raise it if your joints and body can handle it. I like to stay in the middle and lower zones(middle most of the time) because I have had a serious joint injury in the past. that is the beauty of bodybuilding changing your body processes though knowledge most people have no clue about manipulating(or changing as in epigenetics) many of these natural body processes to sway them to get the results the person wants.

Can you show me the study done that states this? I would like to read about this new information.

All the studies that I see are specifying differently or not specifying at all. I would be interested to read the one you are referring to..

Like this..
A couple of properties showed by Cissus are similar with Resveratrol. Both exhibit anti-oxidant properties capable of increasing AST and ALT values as well as being natural anti-inflammatories. In the case of Cissus the analgesic activity is achieved on both neurogenic pain as well as peripheral (inflammatory) pain. Analgesic properties on neurogenic pain are due to central analgesic activity, like opioids. Peripheral analgesic activity (anti-inflammatory activity) is believed to be due to COX-2 inhibition, also like opioids and NSAIDs, though there was no protein synthesis inhibition and no gastric disorders unlike some NSAIDs (Cissus it is capable of relieving gastric disorders).

I could just not find anything about the PGF-2A or the decreased protein synthesis

 

[bubsnt3]

I really like this study and what it says...

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/clin/v64n10/10.pdf

 

[bubsnt3]

This also says that it increases synthesis through it's antiglucorticoid (cortisol) effect

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and overtraining) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/usp-labs/23856-cissus-quadrangularis.html

 

[bubsnt3]

CQR-300 (Proprietary Cisus Extract) (300 mg daily) and CORE (1028 mg daily) brought about significant reductions in weight and blood glucose levels, while decreasing serum lipids thus improving cardiovascular risk factors. The increase in plasma 5-HT and creatinine for both groups hypothesizes a mechanism of controlling appetite and promoting the increase of lean muscle mass by Cissus quadrangularis, thereby supporting the clinical data for weight loss and improving cardiovascular health.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800848/

 

[John Smeton]

Can you show me the study done that states this? I would like to read about this new information.

All the studies that I see are specifying differently or not specifying at all. I would be interested to read the one you are referring to..

Like this..
A couple of properties showed by Cissus are similar with Resveratrol. Both exhibit anti-oxidant properties capable of increasing AST and ALT values as well as being natural anti-inflammatories. In the case of Cissus the analgesic activity is achieved on both neurogenic pain as well as peripheral (inflammatory) pain. Analgesic properties on neurogenic pain are due to central analgesic activity, like opioids. Peripheral analgesic activity (anti-inflammatory activity) is believed to be due to COX-2 inhibition, also like opioids and NSAIDs, though there was no protein synthesis inhibition and no gastric disorders unlike some NSAIDs (Cissus it is capable of relieving gastric disorders).

I could just not find anything about the PGF-2A or the decreased protein synthesis

Cissus works by COX-inhibition: (cox-2) preventing arachidonic acid conversion to prostaglandins. this enzyme responsible for inflammation and pain. cox-2 also inhibits some other ones pge-2, and even others and I pointed out specifically pgf-2a because this is involved with muscle building


again the studies I saw were done in India and I trust some where like Harvard who invest much more money than medicine doctors in India. In fact cox was discovered in 1988 by a harvard scientist.

 

[bubsnt3]

Cissus works by COX-inhibition: (cox-2) preventing arachidonic acid conversion to prostaglandins. this enzyme responsible for inflammation and pain. cox-2 also inhibits some other ones pge-2, and even others and I pointed out specifically pgf-2a because this is involved with muscle building


again the studies I saw were done in India and I trust some where like Harvard who invest much more money than medicine doctors in India. In fact cox was discovered in 1988 by a harvard scientist.

I cand understand the logic of that. although something must have been worded incorrectly because you stated that it inhibits COX-2 and that COX-2 inhibits pgf-2a which would, I believe, mean that by inhibiting COX-2 it should raise pgf-2a .Sounds like you know what you are talking about I just wanted to see the studies that had been done on humans that validated that. There are no studies that I have seen of the amount of pgf-2a inhibition by cissus (although there is of COX-2) and if it creates a pharmacology significant decrease. The ones posted above seem to support protein synthesis from Cissus. You are probably like me and it is not worth invisting hours a lot of times to find the backing for what we are looking for.. all is well, thanks for the input.

K-

 

[John Smeton]

I cand understand the logic of that. although something must have been worded incorrectly because you stated that it inhibits COX-2 and that COX-2 inhibits pgf-2a which would, I believe, mean that by inhibiting COX-2 it should raise pgf-2a .Sounds like you know what you are talking about I just wanted to see the studies that had been done on humans that validated that. There are no studies that I have seen of the amount of pgf-2a inhibition by cissus (although there is of COX-2) and if it creates a pharmacology significant decrease. The ones posted above seem to support protein synthesis from Cissus. You are probably like me and it is not worth invisting hours a lot of times to find the backing for what we are looking for.. all is well, thanks for the input.

K-

I could be wrong on the pgf-2a as I thought any cox-inhibitor inhibited this?
along with a few other ones like pge..and some others. i do not feel like researching this as I spent hours since 2006-to currently looking for information i have studied cissus many many hours, just a couple months ago i spent a long time along researching it and I have still to come up with a lot. and cissus very complicated in my opinion.

the only thing that is most likely certain is it heals bone fractures,(not joints) provides gast-stomach relief from stuff like nsaids, aspirin that effect pgf-2a, so I always thought if it works by the same cox(is it cox-2?) inhibiting as these same drugs it works by reducing Prostaglandin with the benefit of easing the stomach.

also there are studies that say it shrinks hemroids, is good for obesity but in my opinion I do not know if these have any merit because most of these studies were done in India. Moreover, I trust studies done more in sophisticated places like Harvard over a mountain medicine man study in a foreign country.

any one can have an effect from something else while on a supplement and credit it to the supplement. the power of words and what people tell you is unbelievable. ever heard of the placebo effect or power of suggestion in the people open to it and not skeptics. I tend to be a skeptic of many supplements. If you think it'll work for you try it and maybe it will maybe just thinking that it'll work will make it work for you. the mind is a powerful thing when it truly believes something it can accomplish it if that belief were not there.

I tend to be into the science aspect of supplements and get as much logical information as I can.

here is a video on the placebo effect(Thanks for telling me about this Jim if you see this thread, glad I can share this video)

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

ps when I had a serious injury I bought cissus 50 % and it did not do a thing. maybe itll work for you do not write it off that is just my experience. 5-20% seems to work a bit better if it even works at all.(which i think it does for fractures at least thats what the studies conclusion I comprehended) I plan on using some in the future I have in my stash and trying my best to objectively see if it worked

one time I had a bad wrist working as my job was using my wrists all day long for hours on end and after three days on it my wrist healed..was it the cissus I do not know could have been..

 

[bubsnt3]

I could be wrong on the pgf-2a as I thought any cox-inhibitor inhibited this?
along with a few other ones like pge..and some others. i do not feel like researching this as I spent hours since 2006-to currently looking for information i have studied cissus many many hours, just a couple months ago i spent a long time along researching it and I have still to come up with a lot. and cissus very complicated in my opinion.

the only thing that is most likely certain is it heals bone fractures,(not joints) provides gast-stomach relief from stuff like nsaids, aspirin that effect pgf-2a, so I always thought if it works by the same cox(is it cox-2?) inhibiting as these same drugs it works by reducing Prostaglandin with the benefit of easing the stomach.

also there are studies that say it shrinks hemroids, is good for obesity but in my opinion I do not know if these have any merit because most of these studies were done in India. Moreover, I trust studies done more in sophisticated places like Harvard over a mountain medicine man study in a foreign country.

any one can have an effect from something else while on a supplement and credit it to the supplement. the power of words and what people tell you is unbelievable. ever heard of the placebo effect or power of suggestion in the people open to it and not skeptics. I tend to be a skeptic of many supplements. If you think it'll work for you try it and maybe it will maybe just thinking that it'll work will make it work for you. the mind is a powerful thing when it truly believes something it can accomplish it if that belief were not there.

I tend to be into the science aspect of supplements and get as much logical information as I can.

here is a video on the placebo effect(Thanks for telling me about this Jim if you see this thread, glad I can share this video)

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

ps when I had a serious injury I bought cissus 50 % and it did not do a thing. maybe itll work for you do not write it off that is just my experience. 5-20% seems to work a bit better if it even works at all.(which i think it does for fractures at least thats what the studies conclusion I comprehended) I plan on using some in the future I have in my stash and trying my best to objectively see if it worked

one time I had a bad wrist working as my job was using my wrists all day long for hours on end and after three days on it my wrist healed..was it the cissus I do not know could have been..

Cissus works wonderfully. I have to agree though that the only one that I really noticed an awesome effect from was the USP labs one. I also bought some high % extract and it did not work.. I am skeptical of every supplement and it is required to prove itself to me in order for me to recommend it.. Superdrol, IGF-1, Creatine, Amphet, Clen, T3, and Cissus are about the only ones so far that have done that... Not that I have tried them all....

The placebo effect is amazing.. Two recent Phase II clinical trials had to be cancelled due to a higher % of placebo pacients getting better than the test groups.. And if you read ANY placebo controlled trial there is never a %0 improvement in Placebo.. Even in hair growth studies people were actually growing hair on sugar pills (in effect..).

Cissus is a weird one, I agree, but it did do wonders for relieving the pain from my tricept injury..

Thanks,
K-

 

[spartan300]

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