Be Careful With Your Liver
- 11-25-2009, 01:40 AM
Be Careful With Your Liver
What up to everyone on Anabolic Minds. Just came across this site this evening and read through some forums that were pretty interesting to me so I joined and here I am. A little about myself... 27, Spend my time between southern CA and AZ, I've always been a pretty fit person and began weight lifting five days a week about two years ago. I'm sure most of you had the same experience I did when I started lifting, it's addictive. Once I started it's the ongoing mental and physical challenges and the results that make it almost like a new way of life. I think it's great to have websites like this to bring a specific group of people together who have the same hobbies and enable them to discuss current and past related experiences which is the main reason I'm here. As I read through the forums it is obvious that there are many AM members who are very knowledgeable about the body and how to properly nourish, maintain and assist it through the changes accompanied by weight lifting and supplement use. I still can and really could have used some of their advice not long ago. Now hopefully with some of the information I have recently learned (the hard way) I will be able to offer some advice for people with some of the questions I've seen posted. As I mentioned before, I have been working out on a regular basis for roughly two years, eating right, protein shakes, pre-workout drinks, vitamins, etc... Things were going great, best shape of my life and felt great. Around April, 2009 a very experienced body builder friend of mine turned me on to S Roid and T Roid. Wow! What a product. Never before had I used something that delivered such immediate results. I continued using the product as recommended through the majority of summer 2009. If it wasn't for what I'm going to tell you next, this was an awesome product that took me to the next level. Unfortunately the awesomeness ended in late August 2009. It began when my girlfriend noticed the whites of my eyes looked yellow. Within a day my entire body ached like I had a bad flu. No energy, just didn't feel right and within 24 hours started itching, itching like you can't sleep itching. I had no idea what was going on, I've never been sick before and thought I would just get over whatever it was I was going through. After two weeks of dealing with the almost unbearable symptoms of Jaundice and showing no signs of improvement, I went to the ER. After what was the longest four hours of my life, doctors running all sorts of blood tests for possible diseases that could be the cause. It was determined that I had Drug Induced Liver Cholestasis and it was originated by an anabolic steroid ingredient found in my supplements. It is now two and a half months later. I have been through absolute hell. Multiple hospital visits for weeks, liver biopsy and extremely close to a liver transplant. I can't describe how rough this experience has been, from no sleep, to nonstop discomfort with no medication to control, to the realization that nothing mattered anymore. Personal possessions meant nothing, the fact that I lost 50 Lbs didn't bother me at all. This event is described to have a "miracle outcome" according to my Hepatologist (Liver Doc) and the liver transplant team at the hospital where I was treated. So, here I am sitting at my parent’s house in AZ where I have now lived for the past three months. According to the Doctor, I'm expected to have a full recovery. By mid December the majority of my symptoms should be gone and hopefully I'll be on my way back to my great life! The reason I've decide to share my story isn't to bash anyone's products. I have been through an almost suicidal experience and trust me, I've got a great life when things are normal, never thought I would think that way. Anyway, I spent many sleepless nights searching the internet for anybody who has experienced something like this. It would have been great to seek advice and have an idea of what to expect and how to best cope with this. I hope that if you're reading this it's not cause you're going through what I did. I hope you are reading this before you make an uneducated decision of something new to put in your body. I'm definitely no doctor, but at the least I strongly recommend you educate yourself on pros and cons of your decision and consult with a doctor. If you think you are going through something similar to what I did, please feel free to respond. I'm new to the site and not sure how it works yet but would like to offer any information I can to help with your problem. I have very detailed notes and lab reports to refer to.
As I read through some of the posts here I've noticed there are some well educated people here on AM who seem to have some very good advice. I know I'm the new guy here and hope I have not offended anyone's point of view. After all I think we are all here for the same reason, to discuss our current and past experiences with others and do our best to assist fellow members to make good decisions and have a healthier body.
Good luck to everyone.
- 11-25-2009, 02:21 AM
i would pm you but you dont have enough posts to respond so ill ask here.
did you have any symptoms of liver toxicity along the way? ive always been freaked out by the idea of liver toxicity but ive never known any of the symptoms. there are a few things i do in my life that im sure lead to liver toxicity, but im not sure how damaging they are. what kind of itch did you have? did you have any rashes or was it not site specific? was it related to the liver at all or just another side effect of the supplement? did you take the supplement every day? what was anabolic ingredient in the product?
i would love to go get blood work done but i dont have insurance so these things are kinda scary.
were you taking any support supplements? i.e. , milk thistle, etc?For me, the action IS the juice.
- 11-25-2009, 03:14 AM
Bro, that is why its is important to know what you put into your body, phs destroy certain liver cells, beta cells of the pancreas, brain cells and so on. PH's should NOT be abused. Let this be a lesson for others who do not understand that abusing certain drugs can be lethal.doing my own thang!
11-25-2009, 03:57 AM
i would like to add a test booster to my list of supps. the one im looking at has dhea and pregnenolone. 20mg. per serving. anyone have a take.
11-25-2009, 04:04 AM
11-25-2009, 04:18 AM
diesel test pro cycle. im not sure if i have posted in the right section so dont flame me if im wrong. just trying to learn.
11-25-2009, 05:48 AM
Interesting post, definitely highlights a need to be careful. Several factors to consider here though, were you taking any products to regenerate and protect the liver, and what were the particulars of your doseage, cycle length, and time between cycles?
Anyone running a methylated product should absolutely be taking Milk Thistle, NAC, and MSM to protect the liver...they work.
Happy to hear that you are doing much better, and thank you for posting your experience.
11-25-2009, 11:03 AM
Awesome post, scary stuff. I've always been a little freaked out over the whole liver bit. The liver is an amazing organ in that it can withstand so much. Which tells you something about the stuff we "play with" in order to get where we want to be. I'm in the medical field myself. I wont ever forget sitting in class and learning about liver disease. They told us the symptoms were so bad people WANTED to die. Reading your post, I had great empathy for you. Glad to know things are turning around in your favor. Thanks for the post.
11-25-2009, 11:24 AM
Im about to run anadrol without supps, again. I'll be fine. what happened to you was rare and probably would of happened regardless of what you took (genetics)
Sorry to hear about this but its rare and unlikely in most people. The liver is the most resiliant organ in the entire body with self generating abilities.
They prescribe anadrol to anemic children for months. And keep in mind the doses they give are insane in comparison to body building doses. (Mgs per LB of bodyweight)
11-25-2009, 11:45 AM
11-25-2009, 11:55 AM
how long did you run sroid and troid? what did your cycle look like?
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11-25-2009, 12:02 PM
Next we move on to anadrol for children... seriously? What decade are we in, 80s? Anadrol is not a common treatment for anything anymore. There are much more effective non-steroidal treatments available.. such as epogen.... it is also 1-5mgs per Kilo, not pound. But anyway... one of the big reasons for not using it anymore... premature closing of growth plates.
The Historic PES Legend
11-25-2009, 12:07 PM
Yes you've been through a horrible ordeal. Thankfully you made it through. And just in time for Thanksgiving.
Were you aware of what S Roid and T Roid were before you took them? Did you know about any of support supplements like SFRanger mentioned? What about post cycle?
How long did you consecutively take these products? 1 month? 5 months?
Did you frequently consume alcohol while taking these products?
11-25-2009, 12:10 PM
Because he didnt know about PCT and all that is not his fault, but the fault of the manufacturer. They know the demographic they are aiming at, and it is not the very small niche that visits AM.com.
The Historic PES Legend
11-25-2009, 12:34 PM
To say that the general public doesn't know and doesn't research doesn't make the situation any better. It also doesn't waive a person's individual responsibility for their own body.
There's also the "If it's too good to be true," statement that should be common sense in most people. If a $20-$30 bottle of pills is doing this much, there must be a catch. This should cause someone to inquire as to what they're taking.
Either way, there has to be a point where someone tries to learn what's going on (before jaundice)...or they can just stay on their 5 month S Roid/T Roid stack and Bench/Bis routine.
11-25-2009, 12:40 PM
I dont take responsibility from the user, but I sure as hell do not take it from the pusher either. Otherwise we would just be chastizing every OD in America and saying it was their own fault, leave the street dealer alone, they knew the risks.
The Historic PES Legend
11-25-2009, 01:02 PM
If S Roid said that it contained a "proprietray blend of amino acids," when it was actually a S-Drol clone, then yes there is fault with the company.
Comparing supplement companies to drug dealers isn't a fair comparison. From what I understand in our country something is legal until it's labeled as illegal. 'Street drugs' are illegal. So both the addict and the dealer would be chastised in your scenario. (especially since the dealer should have stepped on it more so the addict wouldn't have OD'd )
Advertising? Really? Advertising is a despicable card to play in any industry. 1 hour of television and you can tell me what car is 'the best' which skin cream takes 'twenty years off' and which toy your child wants this Christmas.
Disagree all you want, but research is mandatory for making informed choices on any product in any industry. To not do so and to make decisions on flashy ads alone, will lead to uninformed choices and more likely than not some form of buyers remorse, or worse.Researching is just not the climate today of the general public. Disagree all you want, but putting flashy ads that say melt off fat or gain 40 pounds in 3 days doesnt help.
11-25-2009, 01:34 PM
so t-roid and s-roid huh? both at the same time? for how long?
never occurred to you that if you are taking something with roid in the name that you may wanna do some research on it? Where did you buy it at? Can you buy this sh!t at GNC?
Anyway... Time to have a serious talk with your "very experienced bodybuilder friend"
SFW and GFH
11-25-2009, 01:46 PM
First off, welcome BeLiverSmart to AM. I take everyone at face value until they give me reason not to. I think your intentions are only to inform fellow supp users to be careful. We can learn from your mistakes and no doubt you learned the hard way. That is what I took from your message. So bravo to your message. As far as placing blame on company vs consumer I think it is a little of both. The demographics for many (if not all) of the supp companies are Mr Little Johnny Muscle man who is 20 years old and wants to be buff and show off at the beach. The target consumer is someone who wants the quick fix and would therefore be prone to a higher degree of persuasion where as Former Johnny Muscle man who is now older and wiser can now sift through some of the marketing BS and hopefully determine what is healthy and what is risky. I think it is the responsibility of the latter members of this board to try and educate the inexperienced ones as to what can be safe and what to watch out for. Hopefully the responsible companies can chime in on some of the posed questions on these forums and be honest about their products and educate the consumers. This is an ideal world and I am not naive enough to think that this will happen but that would be the goal.
11-25-2009, 10:43 PM
lol thats funny.
these long paragraphs are killing me. DOUBLE SPACE DUDES . i just wanna make a note here though that someone said the liver is the most resilient organ of the body.......
this 'may' be true, but its probably the most dangerous organ of the body to F with. some people drop dead from their livers shutting down. its crazy stuff. and i know, some also have heart attacks and drop dead....but still.
i will say though that i had no idea that a pro hormone could what it did to you.....PCT or not. makes me kinda nervous about taking the havoc i just bought.
For me, the action IS the juice.
11-25-2009, 10:47 PM
i also wanted to point out that , yes, every bottle of everything nearly says to consult your physician before you take this blah blah.
lol but cmon, who talks to their doctor before taking something that is OTC? i will say that 99.9% of people here did not talk to their doctors before taking anabolic pump, or p slin, or anything else that is advertised in the body building community.
ideally everyone would have their doctor on speed dial ( no 911 jokes please ) to ask them about every supplement we take, but realistically its non existent.
For me, the action IS the juice.
11-25-2009, 10:48 PM
11-25-2009, 11:03 PM
i found these :
t roid is 19-Norandrosta 4,9 diene 3,17 dione 30 mg
s roid is 17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one, 17b-ol- 10mg
and you were taking both of these simultaneously
For me, the action IS the juice.
11-25-2009, 11:05 PM
11-25-2009, 11:34 PM
Take 1 capsule daily for four weeks. Do not use for more than 30 days without taking 90 days off.
Serving size: 1 capsule
Servings per container: 90
Amount per serving:
17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one, 17b-ol- 10mg
Not for use for individuals under 21 years of age and women who are pregnant or nursing. Consult with physician before using this product. Exceeding recommended dosage may cause serious adverse health effects.
SFW and GFH
11-25-2009, 11:37 PM
11-25-2009, 11:48 PM
11-26-2009, 12:45 AM
11-26-2009, 02:10 AM
things that help the liver are supposed to be good for clearing up acne. Milk Thistle clears me up for a weak before I get used to it. Would NAC help? Does the fact that I get used to Milk Thistle so quick have anythig to do with nutrient deficiency.
11-26-2009, 02:55 AM
bro really did u ever look at the back lable?? or read the warnings, if not then u really are as dumb as ppl who dont know wat there taking. come on how did u know how to dose it if not by loking at the label!?!
11-26-2009, 03:45 AM
i am about to start my first ph cycle and just had to post that if you read his story close enough he says he started April 09 and continued thru the Summer of 09, along with the statement " the awesomeness ended in August of 09." That sounds like 16-20 weeks. I'm no genius as far as PHs are concerned, but from all I've read 4-6 weeks at most is recommended, with serious support supps., along with a PCT for just as long. I plan on posting my proposed cycle soon and am hoping for some input as to whether or not it looks OK. I think this guy just thought more had to be better, as I once did, until I did some research.
11-26-2009, 02:55 PM
Whats the deal with the OP? Is he an attorney fishin the pond or what?
Story sounds a little suspect, with no replies thus far.
11-27-2009, 01:51 AM
I agree...there has been a lot of this lately in the wake of the publicity the PH's and some of the stimulants have received.
11-27-2009, 02:02 AM
11-27-2009, 11:43 AM
yeah, need to know more from OP before making any reaction. If you drank 2 bottles of scotch every night for months in a row you would also be in bad shape and I feel that this fact reflects nothing on scotch.
11-27-2009, 01:22 PM
What does your blood pressure look like?
What does your lipid profile look like?
What does your liver profile look like?
Have you had a CMP lately?
Have you has a CBC lately?
What is your family history of HBP, cholesterol, heart disease, BPH, prostate cancer.
Listening to other uninformed individuals is no more ignorant that the OP. 99% of posters on this board and others use without having a clue of their own health status before hand. Thinking the advice of some good bro's on AM makes you informed is foolish.
Your PCT is the least of your concerns.
The fool says in his heart “There is no God."
11-27-2009, 07:44 PM
12-01-2009, 02:11 PM
yeah...my man took both compounds for way too long....april until aug..??!!...and his bb friend at the gym is a douche for givin him sheit to take without teachin him...plus OP hasn't responded...
doesn't sound like he took support sups...but I would like to see how much he was takin of each for that many months...
12-01-2009, 03:50 PM
4 straight months of SD - damn. No surprise his liver is shot, that **** is toxic.
On the flip side, it's also interesting to note that it does take 4 straight months, or similar, to get to a liver failure point. I've yet to see any data about serious liver problems from "normal" 3-4 week SD cycles. They are all multiple months-long cycles.
12-01-2009, 03:57 PM
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